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George Yeo can break SAF bond while Dr Allan Ooi can't???
- Thread starter LaMei
- Start date
Yes, yes... the perfect circular argument. Very well articulated.
In fact I have seen good intelligent people who have no affinity towards SDP using the same argument - one must be good because PAP screwed that person the worst. But unable to explain what was actually achieved.
Because of his enigmatic ways, some other decent people think that he is being paid.
I once came across a high grade US report on Singapore politics that was very good except for one glaring point - Low was not in it at all but Chee was described as the leader of the opposition. Chiam was also mentioned.
In fact I have seen good intelligent people who have no affinity towards SDP using the same argument - one must be good because PAP screwed that person the worst. But unable to explain what was actually achieved.
Because of his enigmatic ways, some other decent people think that he is being paid.
I once came across a high grade US report on Singapore politics that was very good except for one glaring point - Low was not in it at all but Chee was described as the leader of the opposition. Chiam was also mentioned.
It was an interesting period of time. AMP was indeed a serious crisis. PAP had groomed one set of Malay leaders and also a second set as successors. It caught PAP by surprise that these professionals had (1) become defacto community leaders and (2) more surprisingly, had no intention to go for elections but went straight for a sensitive susbject - Malay education and performance.
Suddenly all the Malay MPs became impotent overnight. Berita Harian got dethroned and Yang Razali Kassim from Business Times took the pedestal for the media sector. Mutalib of course stood front and centre.
It was only much later did I realise that after intense pressure that both the PAP and the Malay Professionals came to a compromise - the community picks the MP with one or two exceptions. As I understand that negotiations were intense.
No justice can be done on the AMP matter in this forum. Chua Beng Huat who kept close observations and as he has no bearing on both parties should write the ultimate book on this.
By the way, arising from this, a group of Chinese Professional, all OMS ( who consider themselves as representing Chinese heritage and interest got together and made it known that no PAP MP represents Chinese interest. It is led by an NTU chap, has released a series of publications but does not seem to have gained traction. I can't recall the name though. Very passionate and very angry.
Suddenly all the Malay MPs became impotent overnight. Berita Harian got dethroned and Yang Razali Kassim from Business Times took the pedestal for the media sector. Mutalib of course stood front and centre.
It was only much later did I realise that after intense pressure that both the PAP and the Malay Professionals came to a compromise - the community picks the MP with one or two exceptions. As I understand that negotiations were intense.
No justice can be done on the AMP matter in this forum. Chua Beng Huat who kept close observations and as he has no bearing on both parties should write the ultimate book on this.
By the way, arising from this, a group of Chinese Professional, all OMS ( who consider themselves as representing Chinese heritage and interest got together and made it known that no PAP MP represents Chinese interest. It is led by an NTU chap, has released a series of publications but does not seem to have gained traction. I can't recall the name though. Very passionate and very angry.
Low was never mentioned in US nor Europe political reports on Singapore basically because he is Chinese educated and not seen as a potential "pro-American" nor "pro-European" style of democracy.
Or I would say that he is not seen as someone who will push the agenda of Western-led democratic movement. Well, this may due to the lack of understanding Low's psyche because he is cautious in putting up views on political ideology.
Goh Meng Seng
You are right about Tarmuggi's wife. However I would like to explain how for the Malays is a little different from Indians, Chinese, Mexicans, Maoris and the rest of the races.
The Malays will accept a total alien even coloured purple if he takes up Islam and follows their culture. This does not apply to any other races including others such as Arabs, Iranians who practice Islam.
Once in a while in Singapore and Malaysia, one would come across a Chinese who marries a Malay not only becomes Muslim, starts behaving in terms of mannerisms as a Malay. One would have thought that they were adopted from birth. There is a chap called Peter Goh who writes Malay novels and he fits the bill. There are many others like him. There is one Eurasian and one Chinese who were detained during the JI crackdown that fit that bill as well.
The trouble with some Indian Muslims is that they think that just because they are muslims, its synonymous with being Malay. However there some who are readily accepted. The classic example is Mahathir who is a DKK.
Any political party that seeks Malay candidates must be prepared to spend time. The Malays intelligentsia are prepared to engage anyone and also are prepared to have a tender system for parliamentary representation or even more than one party to look after their interest. And the PAP knows that after the AMP affair.
The Malays will accept a total alien even coloured purple if he takes up Islam and follows their culture. This does not apply to any other races including others such as Arabs, Iranians who practice Islam.
Once in a while in Singapore and Malaysia, one would come across a Chinese who marries a Malay not only becomes Muslim, starts behaving in terms of mannerisms as a Malay. One would have thought that they were adopted from birth. There is a chap called Peter Goh who writes Malay novels and he fits the bill. There are many others like him. There is one Eurasian and one Chinese who were detained during the JI crackdown that fit that bill as well.
The trouble with some Indian Muslims is that they think that just because they are muslims, its synonymous with being Malay. However there some who are readily accepted. The classic example is Mahathir who is a DKK.
Any political party that seeks Malay candidates must be prepared to spend time. The Malays intelligentsia are prepared to engage anyone and also are prepared to have a tender system for parliamentary representation or even more than one party to look after their interest. And the PAP knows that after the AMP affair.
Another circular argument - if I am countered I am a threat therefore I am good, if I am ignored I am sound therefore I am good. Sometimes called dual argument or "heads I win, tails you lose" approach. They may really be countered or ignored because the message was bad and people don't know where to start.
Probably that's why the cyberspace numbers is far from matching the large usage of the internet. Here they're doing well for a party that scores the kind of election results in real life, but in cyberspace doesn't make sense to be neck-to-neck with others that use the net a lot less.
Like I said how would one complain of their points being missed when the circular or dual way caused the issues to be lost in the 1st place. Over-glossing the issues with the things they went through for the issues doesn't help when people forget the issues.
Low probably cares little about that, the chap is well known for ignoring the media or anyone seeking to interview him especially foreigners. The US writers probably tried and couldn't come up with anything. Building of overseas network help as well. Am sure Gomez is even more mentioned than Chiam but less than Chee. But how Chiam came on that baffles me.
Actually he's an enigma on his own. Doesn't exert himself as leader despite being one, doesn't say much and maintains silence in controversies people try to pull him in, including both PAP and opposition members, but keeps winning. People had been critical of him for it, but above all that 2 conclusion I draw is - he's far from populist, another is no one including PAP knows what/how he really thinks.
Here is the rub - Ishak, the BG , a lovely chap is a DKK and married to a Chinese. Ishak interestingly is what one would call a true blue Singapore, completely oblivious to race. Not exactly a Malay leader.
Yatiman Yusoff was bitter to the evry end for what the Malay Community did to him and his fellow Malay MPs.
Forget to add that MUIS is also now part of the Parliament Malay protocol after the negotiations.
Yatiman Yusoff was bitter to the evry end for what the Malay Community did to him and his fellow Malay MPs.
Forget to add that MUIS is also now part of the Parliament Malay protocol after the negotiations.
Dear Scroobal
Food for thought, Even if you find a Malay enough Malay Candidate , what issues will resonate with a Malay voter without losing the Chinese Vote ? I mean granted saying the pledge in Malay would have helped, having a senior chinese opposition member speak in Malay would have helped even more........but assuming another GE soon what are the pressing Malay issues ?
Locke
Food for thought, Even if you find a Malay enough Malay Candidate , what issues will resonate with a Malay voter without losing the Chinese Vote ? I mean granted saying the pledge in Malay would have helped, having a senior chinese opposition member speak in Malay would have helped even more........but assuming another GE soon what are the pressing Malay issues ?
Locke
Very hard to work the same way among Chinese. They are the major race here. The underlying phenomenon all around the world without fail, with small degrees of variation depending on the characteristic of the race, is that minorities tend to feel more insecure especially in cases of racism. The more acute the racism, the more it is.
That was not how he was when he first came out until both he and the PAP established themselves. Later he revealed something that showed he probably harboured a melting pot idealogy - was staunchly opposed to GRC, calling it a mental crutch for Malays. He preferred no Malay MPs if a Chinese-dominated society like Singapore did not vote for any.
This is how it is supposed to work - the Malay votes would be the tipping point for marginal seats. The Chinese voters in GRC would not take into account who that Malay is as that chap is part of the required quota. They would look primarily at the Chinese candidates vs the PAP chaps. The Malays would zoom straight at the Malay candidate, not happy immediately rejected.
I suspect the issues are secondary - that person must be acceptable to the community as an MP first. That would only take place if he is already an acceptable face within the community.
Do understand that I am not trying to evade your questions about what the Malay issues are. Its who that rep is that appears paramount. I also noticed that they prefer not to discuss their community issues with others. Try talking to a Malay Professional. The evasive action is pretty obvious.
I think we more or less know what the issues are just that we did not realise that they were only prepared to issue license to a select few to represent them with these issues.
I suspect the issues are secondary - that person must be acceptable to the community as an MP first. That would only take place if he is already an acceptable face within the community.
Do understand that I am not trying to evade your questions about what the Malay issues are. Its who that rep is that appears paramount. I also noticed that they prefer not to discuss their community issues with others. Try talking to a Malay Professional. The evasive action is pretty obvious.
I think we more or less know what the issues are just that we did not realise that they were only prepared to issue license to a select few to represent them with these issues.
Beside just being Malay and not DDK, what are the things that they look for? Age? Profession? Look? Education level?
Goh Meng Seng
You are right. Minorities no matter what their colour and creed display the same concerns.
Dear Scroo
Ok issues do not matter, just the face and his acceptability. I am seriously though drawn to an introspective article written a while back by a top Malay scholar turned ST Journalist about her identity as a Malay in Singapore. One of the more quirky observations though was how she felt as a Malay scholar her successes were celebrated as a community or a kampung. What stuck me if that we had a chinese scholar we would not think any more of it as Chinese I mean.
Food for thought but does a Malay Candidate have to represent aspirational community desires in order to lead that part of the community. AKA, Successful Malay Grad, or well regarded Muslim Scholar etc etc ?
Locke
Ok issues do not matter, just the face and his acceptability. I am seriously though drawn to an introspective article written a while back by a top Malay scholar turned ST Journalist about her identity as a Malay in Singapore. One of the more quirky observations though was how she felt as a Malay scholar her successes were celebrated as a community or a kampung. What stuck me if that we had a chinese scholar we would not think any more of it as Chinese I mean.
Food for thought but does a Malay Candidate have to represent aspirational community desires in order to lead that part of the community. AKA, Successful Malay Grad, or well regarded Muslim Scholar etc etc ?
Locke
You hit the nail on its head - whether they like it or not, whether the rest of Singapore likes it or not, it has to be a succesful Malay leader, a successful Malay businessman etc. This is central in all things at least for the near future. Interestingly they do not like it but they are stuck with it.
Here is another item thats interesting. Why did Dinah Suhaimi article took the country by storm including Tommy Koh and Kanwaljit Soin?
Here is another item thats interesting. Why did Dinah Suhaimi article took the country by storm including Tommy Koh and Kanwaljit Soin?
Then, I would say, opposition will not get such Malay candidates whether we like it or not.
Successful Malay Leader has to be in PAP's establishment to stay successful. Similarly for successful businessman.
Goh Meng Seng
No, not necessarily. Look at the PAP line-up.
There are people who are teachers, store owners, working in companies in middle management that will be perfectly acceptable as community leaders.
Its just that they will be labelled as the successful Malay florist in Bukit Batok and not successful florist in Bukit Batok.
There are people who are teachers, store owners, working in companies in middle management that will be perfectly acceptable as community leaders.
Its just that they will be labelled as the successful Malay florist in Bukit Batok and not successful florist in Bukit Batok.
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