Fare Increase in Disguise

[SneeringTree]

Instead of speculating about how many % of commuters gain or lose; I suggest we ask a more direct question: Would SMRT earn more or less with the new fare system.

If they will be earning more, this new system is a rotten one.

Simple as that.

 

[goldenmonkey]

Instead of speculating about how many % of commuters gain or lose; I suggest we ask a more direct question: Would SMRT earn more or less with the new fare system.

If they will be earning more, this new system is a rotten one.

Simple as that.

Is there even a doubt on this one? I think not.

It is the fact that no justification is done (on why they should be earning more), or even a slight hint of explanation needed to the lesser mortals, that irks people. The mid-management or the executioners level of the government have became complacent beyond recognition from the original fore-fathers who toiled and get work done.

The present crop just use their god-given authority to force issues and refuse to listen.

 

[cass888]

Dear Cass,

You don't even understand what I am saying. It is not about HDB, but rather, the land sales, which includes to HDB as well as commercial use.

There is no secret about this. The PAP government has admitted in parliament that proceeds from land sales do not go into the annual budget but straight into the reserves. It is just that people like you are ignorant of it because you do not follow parliamentary proceedings closely or didn't pay attention to it.

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Secretary General

Stop making wild statements. I am REALLY curious about how land sales (especially if you do not consider HDB flat sales) can generate $300 billion.

Give us facts and figures, not just statements. You keep restating your statements in the face of figures (or lack of it) proving otherwise.

I am sure PAP is reading this so I hope they have a field day with you at election time.

 

[cass888]

Only losers resort to name callings when they lose an argument. Grow up.

Only loser Secretary Generals refuse to answer questions. I am an anonymous poster. The loser Secretary General MR GOH MENG SENG of the ONCE MIGHTY NATIONAL SOLIDARITY PARTY will have to answer for this. I will wait for PAP to ask: Do you prefer to pay the lesser you pay now or let MR GOH MENG SENG HAVE HIS WAY and pay what you use to?

You grow up. Since Mr loser Secretary General is evading the issues, and sidestepping all the time, he deserves to be called a loser.

No wonder Low Thia Khiang sacked him.

 

[cass888]

Instead of speculating about how many % of commuters gain or lose; I suggest we ask a more direct question: Would SMRT earn more or less with the new fare system.

If they will be earning more, this new system is a rotten one.

Simple as that.

Another evasion befitting the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan.

Who the FUCK cares if SMRT/SBS earns more? The test for each commuter is whether he pays less. If the 30% have to pay more and let SMRT/SBS make a profit it is still not their problem.

 

[cass888]

GOH MENG SENG, the SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE ONCE MIGHTY NSP is again SIDESTEPPING the issues.

70% of the population pay less. But he keeps harping on the 30%. If we revert to the status quo, are Singaporeans better off?

SEBESTIAN TAN, your party is in trouble unless you get ride of this guy who will not address facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear AndroAsc,

Thank you for your findings here. AS of now, I may not verify the figures here.

I do not think my point is weaken in any way. And I reiterate, I do not think 70% of people are benefiting. 70% may include those who are neutral.

Not all combination has been covered here. That is why I have asked PTC to provide us the matrix of fare comparisons for both MRT as well as main trunk services.

For example, if I need to take a MRT and then another bus to my work place, most likely I would prefer to take a trunk service directly to reach my work place instead. On the other hand, many people have given up on feeder service and chose to walk (within 10 min distance) or cycle to MRT stations instead.

Besides, we have not gone into the purely bus services comparison.

PTC did not put up the possible increases in fare for straight forward trips, either MRT or buses. It did not tell us that there is a possibility of more than 7% increase in fare!

We understand the complexity of the comparisons basically due to huge number of possible combination involved in a public transportation model. However, it is the transparency of the whole introduction of this new system that matters.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[cass888]

MORTALS, less or otherwise don't give a shit whether SMRT/SBS earns more. They only care whehter they pay less.

Stop playing the advocate of the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan!!!

It is the fact that no justification is done (on why they should be earning more), or even a slight hint of explanation needed to the lesser mortals, that irks people.

 

[RonRon]

Only loser Secretary Generals refuse to answer questions. I am an anonymous poster. The loser Secretary General MR GOH MENG SENG of the ONCE MIGHTY NATIONAL SOLIDARITY PARTY will have to answer for this. I will wait for PAP to ask: Do you prefer to pay the lesser you pay now or let MR GOH MENG SENG HAVE HIS WAY and pay what you use to?

You grow up. Since Mr loser Secretary General is evading the issues, and sidestepping all the time, he deserves to be called a loser.

No wonder Low Thia Khiang sacked him.

Hi any juicy story on Y Low Thia Khiang sacked him?

 

[cass888]

Hi any juicy story on Y Low Thia Khiang sacked him?

Isn't the embarrassing way the MIGHTY Secretary General is conducting himself the answer?

He makes a statement. He is refuted. Hs makes it again. He is refuted again.

He seems to be missing the plot. He is saying distance based fare is a fare hike in disguise. He is not saying profit hike in disguise. And he doesn't seem to give a shit that most people will sale some money with the new system. He wants to hype on the 30% who may pay more.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Cass,

You want facts, I gave you facts but it seems that you cannot handle the truth at all. ALL PROCEEDS from LAND SALES in Singapore by the government goes into the reserves. This is plain simple facts.

You prefer to believe anything that has been thrown at you by the establishment... 70% of people benefited from this new system? Just because PTC says so? PTC makes up by who? All the public transport providers plus some academic and nice guys. But did they give you facts right upfront in the first place? Did they tell you fares for MRT trips will be increased by 3% to more than 7% right in the beginning? Sonny, you want facts? You only get half truth. Half truth are not truth.

70% of people benefited from this new system but total fare only drops by 2.5%? And this so call drop, how is it computed? You have to take their words for it! Even so, isn't it quite puzzling why if most people benefited, the drop in total fare collection could be so small? In fact, statistically, it is within the 3% standard errors from ZERO!~

If you want to believe public transport operators who claim that the MRT trains are not that crowded compared to other places.. not at CRUSH LOAD, that's your freedom to do so. I don't. I don't believe a single word because every time when they claim they will suffer XXX amount due to fare changes, they ended up making more money at the end of the financial year!

You want facts? You think this PAP government can "EARN" surplus of $6Billion consistently per year over the 50 years to accumulate $300billion of reserves without making money from selling land? It is time to wake up. Go and do a search on past budget surpluses and do your sum if you know how to add properly. Even give it a consistent 10% increment due to wonderful performance in investment of this fund. I am just afraid you won't be able to handle the truth.

I am sorry to poke at the Myth of super governance of PAP. Anybody can make obscene amount of money by using law to forcefully acquire land at dirt cheap price and then sell them at obscene profits. Any idiots could do that, it is not a mystery at all. And obviously if you put all these into the reserves, the reserves will balloon over time. Also no mystery.

Not only land sales proceeds don't go into the annual budget, last time, even the investment income is not included into the annual budget. It was left in the reserves to roll over. Now, they change the rules, up to (not necessary full of this amount) 50% of investment income will go into annual budget. Don't believe, go and read Hansard. You want facts? Make sure you can handle the truth first.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Isn't the embarrassing way the MIGHTY Secretary General is conducting himself the answer?

He makes a statement. He is refuted. Hs makes it again. He is refuted again.

He seems to be missing the plot. He is saying distance based fare is a fare hike in disguise. He is not saying profit hike in disguise. And he doesn't seem to give a shit that most people will sale some money with the new system. He wants to hype on the 30% who may pay more.

Cass, you are the one not getting the point. If really 70% of people benefits from 5% decrease in fare and 30% of people benefits from 5% increase of fare, I won't be making noise here. Apparently, this is NOT the case. The increase in fare could be as much as 7%. But we don't really know what is the benefits 70% is getting.

As I have said, from the way they put it, those who benefits, only save little. Those who have to pay more, would have to pay much more. Why? Because even with some unqualified estimates, they say the decrease in total fare will be only 2.5%! As I have said and will say again, Mathematics doesn't lie.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[sampierre]

GOH MENG SENG, the SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE ONCE MIGHTY NSP is again SIDESTEPPING the issues.

70% of the population pay less. But he keeps harping on the 30%. If we revert to the status quo, are Singaporeans better off?

SEBESTIAN TAN, your party is in trouble unless you get ride of this guy who will not address facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello Mother-fucking PAP lackey CASS888,

WHERE DID YOU GET THE FACTS AND FIGURES THAT 70% OF OUR POPULATION BENEFIT FROM THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE DISTANCE-BASED
FARE STRUCTURE??? FROM YOUR PAP MASTERS IN THE GUISE OF LAND TRANSPORT AUTHORITY?? JUST BECOS THE STRAITS TIMES SAY SO???

EVEN IF--- AND THAT IS A BIG "IF"---- YOUR PAP MASTERS ARE CORRECT THAT THE 70% STAND TO GAIN FROM THE NEW FARE STRUCTURE, THE SAVINGS COULD BE MINISCULE, MAYBE JUST 2cts ~5cts PER TRIP, COMPARED TO THE 10CTS ~ 20 CTS INCREASE PER TRIP TO BE BORNE BY THE OTHER 30% OF THE POPULATION. OBVIOUSLY YOUR PAP MASTERS ARE RESORTING TO THE "HIGH MORAL GROUND" ARGUMENT ---- DISTANCE- BASED FARES ARE FAIR TO EVERYONE---- TO ENABLE SMRT & SBS TO MAKE MORE PROFITS FROM THE NEW SYSTEM.
MY STAND ON THIS ISSUE IS VERY CLEAR : I DON'T FUCK CARE HOW THE GOVT RESTRUCTURES THE FARE SYSTEM, AS LONG AS COMMUTERS MAKING A DIRECT MRT/SBS TRIP TO THEIR DESTINATION ARE NOT PENALISED AS A RESULT.

IN THIS RESPECT, I AM IN FULL AGRREMENT WITH NSP'S STATEMENT ON THIS ISSUE.

 

[SneeringTree]

Another evasion befitting the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan.

Who the FUCK cares if SMRT/SBS earns more? The test for each commuter is whether he pays less. If the 30% have to pay more and let SMRT/SBS make a profit it is still not their problem.

It is a fucked up system if (for example), 70% pay 1% less and the remaining 30% pay 20% more.

 

[IR123]

I am inclined to GMS' arguments rather than that of a menopausal woman suffering from unrequited love of chee soon juan.

As for the implied belief that Low Thia Kiang, Sylvia Lim and Sebastian Teo have superior opposition party management, well the above three can give themselves an A or A-.

Besides what is Low Thia Kiang, Sylvia Lim and Sebastian Teo saying about the matter, or could it be they could not care less?


After reading through the arguments by GMS, there is a basis to his points. MRT is not a means for finetuning revenue, using information for commercial profits. If the government is truly concerned about the needy, then the 1% gst increase would have provided the neccessary revenue for the subsidies for the lower income.

The change in computer systems is a capital cost. Is this cost included in the revenue loss of 2.5% for the first year?

Not being an expert, the best will be an independent verification of the assertions made that it benefit 70% of singaporeans. Only the statistically qualified can make a statistical verification using the data that the authorities have as well as making an analysis of their implied assumptions. Otherwise we will just have to take their word for it. Hopefully not of the same quality as those words that the Orchard Road flooding is caused by debris and that only one person was injured in the Thai shooting.

It is not reasonable to expect GMS to analyse the data. He is after all a politician, not a statistician. But as an opposition politician, at least he spoke. What about Low Thia Kiang, Sylvia Lim, Chiam See Tong and Sebastian Teo. Did they speak? What did they say?

 

[Glaringly]

PTC comes up with the motherhood statement that more will gain from the so called fairer system and a small percentage will have to pay more?

So, as can see from the implementation, there are 3 main travel groups.

1. MRT to Bus or Bus to MRT.
2. MRT Only.
3. Bus Only.

Group 1 will have their fare reduce while group 2 and 3 will have their fare increase.

Now, what is so difficult of PTC, not able to provide the basic figures on the numbers for these 3 groups?

As long as PTC keeps mums about it, we know that the broad sweeping statement are really standing on hollow pillars.

 

[IR123]

PTC comes up with the motherhood statement that more will gain from the so called fairer system and a small percentage will have to pay more?

So, as can see from the implementation, there are 3 main travel groups.

1. MRT to Bus or Bus to MRT.
2. MRT Only.
3. Bus Only.

Group 1 will have their fare reduce while group 2 and 3 will have their fare increase.

Why should penalizing those who take MRT or bus only be a FAIRER system? All of them need to commute to work. Public transport is a non-negotiable choice for all the three categories.

Public transport is the last resort option. Walking from Tampines to City Hall is not a viable option. If anyone thinks it is, let the SMRT CEO do the walking.

 

[rodent2005]

If you live in Tampines and work in City Hall, either change the place where you work at to save on your transport costs or change the place where you live at for the same effect, or alternatively get a whole new job and place to stay at.

Your common sense is as abundant as your political sense

Your comment must be the stupidest I have come across in years. Do yourself a favour, get some more education before ever posting again.

 

[Boliao]

Teacher: James, why are you late?
James: ~cher, cause the bus arrive at school late.

Teacher: James, wake up earlier and take the first bus.
James: ~cher, I did. But I have to get off on the second stop to wait for the next bus so my fares can be lower

 

[Boliao]

Only loser Secretary Generals refuse to answer questions. I am an anonymous poster. The loser Secretary General MR GOH MENG SENG of the ONCE MIGHTY NATIONAL SOLIDARITY PARTY will have to answer for this. I will wait for PAP to ask: Do you prefer to pay the lesser you pay now or let MR GOH MENG SENG HAVE HIS WAY and pay what you use to?

You grow up. Since Mr loser Secretary General is evading the issues, and sidestepping all the time, he deserves to be called a loser.

No wonder Low Thia Khiang sacked him.

You have consistently proven yourself to be moron and imbecile. Perhaps you can get the government to release the real facts and numbers on the following;

for starters...

1) The actual cost of a HDB flat
2) The actual number of foreigners in Singapore
3) The actual number of jobs that went to non-Singaporeans. And PR are not Singaporeans
4) The actual lost the GIC and Temasek made
5) The actual amount given to PAP town councils versus those given to opposition ward
7) What the fuck is PM Lee actually doing when he has such a expensive and big team (plus 1 MM, 2 SM and 2 deputies) doing his job?

and finally,
8) Is Ho Jinx really a he or a she?

Any one else wants to chime in?

 

[johnny333]

for starters...

1) The actual cost of a HDB flat
2) The actual number of foreigners in Singapore
3) The actual number of jobs that went to non-Singaporeans. And PR are not Singaporeans
4) The actual lost the GIC and Temasek made
5) The actual amount given to PAP town councils versus those given to opposition ward
7) What the fuck is PM Lee actually doing when he has such a expensive and big team (plus 1 MM, 2 SM and 2 deputies) doing his job?

and finally,
8) Is Ho Jinx really a he or a she?

Any one else wants to chime in?

What belongs to me is mine & not to the PAP, so I want to know where MY CPF money is