Fare Increase in Disguise

[MIWIBDogRonRon]

Yeah, right. Vote in the likes of the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan who will bankrupt the country.

or vote in bastard malaysian cow who want to send ur elderly parents to die in johor bahru

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

While I agree that this is an inflationary world but it is just a matter of degree of increment! 7% increase is OUTRAGEOUS!

They keep stressing FAIRER as their MANTRA but they didn't tell you that FAIRER doesn't necessarily means CHEAPER... same for the LTA's hoodwinking on the new ERP system using GPS...

Goh Meng Seng

TS should know after staying in Sinkapore for so long, where got prices come down one? Only my salary can come down, the rest expenses all keeps going up.

LTA only promise that this New way of Charging-Distance Based Fare System, benefit those who does Transfering, remove Transfer Penalty. No Discount, No Sales and No Extras.

Want cheaper transportation - Vote a new Government. Public Transport company is to first, make profit for their investors! The rest... got extra $$$ then say.

 

[ahpong]

I read somewhere the claimed 2.5% cut is fare is before the re-instatement of a 3% rise in fares in previous years. The nett result is a 0.5% rise, that explain why the start fare changed from 69 cts to 71cts

 

[cass888]

Dear Meng Seng

The reality is that most people will take a trip like this:

a. Home to MRT - Bus
b. MRT to MRT
c. MRT to work - Maybe Bus

Let's assume (c) is not required. The majority of the population will still take a bus and an MRT. While trip (b) is increased (and maybe (a) alone is also increased), the system works such that the total fare for (a) and (b) together are reduced.

Basically what this means is that the people who have to take (a) + (b) is no longer subsidising those who are taking (b) alone.

Dear Cass,

If each and every rides are increased in fare, tell me how do you end up paying lesser than previously?

Yeah, they say, you can keep changing bus or trains.. BUT look, if I live in Tampines and work in City Hall, why should I keep changing buses or trains to waste my time during peak hours just to get "lower" fare? No.. that is NOT "Lower Fare" at all, it may be lower than the new direct fare but NOT Necessarily lower to the old fare.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Meng Seng

The reality is that most people will take a trip like this:

a. Home to MRT - Bus
b. MRT to MRT
c. MRT to work - Maybe Bus

Let's assume (c) is not required. The majority of the population will still take a bus and an MRT. While trip (b) is increased (and maybe (a) alone is also increased), the system works such that the total fare for (a) and (b) together are reduced.

Basically what this means is that the people who have to take (a) + (b) is no longer subsidising those who are taking (b) alone.

Dear Cass,

As I have said, if MAJORITY of Singaporeans, 70% of them are enjoying cheaper fare, PTC won't be saying the overall fare will go down only by 2.6%. Something is not right somewhere.

I do not think there is any cross subsidy for those who do not take additional bus! You take more bus, you should pay more, isn't it? What subsidies are you talking about?

The truth is, they have all along OVERCHARGED for feeder service as well as the start up fare of 71 cents is far too much.

There are a few elements here actually. Now they change their focus. They are saying 70% of Senior Citizens and students, instead of everybody, are enjoying lower fares. I basically do not trust their statistics, knowing how they have been playing with statistics to justify their ends.

Many people bought flats just near to MRT stations AT A PREMIUM just to be at walking distance to MRT stations. It seems that now, THEY ARE SUBSIDIZING those who are taking feeder service by bearing HIGHER fare while fares for those who need to take a bus have a lower fare... if any.

On the other hand, their so call "cheaper fare" is calculated at the INFLATED fare by 3%! Where got such thing one?

You have to decide for yourself what to believe. But to me, for simple one to one MRT stop, an increase of 7% or 13cents, is totally outrageous.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[cass888]

Dear Meng Seng

Since you are the politician, why not give us examples of one bus ride + one train ride trips? At least 70% of those who take public transport will not have the luxury of a pure train ride trip.

Your use of just single train trips is naive at best and dishonest at worst.

Dear Cass,

As I have said, if MAJORITY of Singaporeans, 70% of them are enjoying cheaper fare, PTC won't be saying the overall fare will go down only by 2.6%. Something is not right somewhere.

I do not think there is any cross subsidy for those who do not take additional bus! You take more bus, you should pay more, isn't it? What subsidies are you talking about?

The truth is, they have all along OVERCHARGED for feeder service as well as the start up fare of 71 cents is far too much.

There are a few elements here actually. Now they change their focus. They are saying 70% of Senior Citizens and students, instead of everybody, are enjoying lower fares. I basically do not trust their statistics, knowing how they have been playing with statistics to justify their ends.

Many people bought flats just near to MRT stations AT A PREMIUM just to be at walking distance to MRT stations. It seems that now, THEY ARE SUBSIDIZING those who are taking feeder service by bearing HIGHER fare while fares for those who need to take a bus have a lower fare... if any.

On the other hand, their so call "cheaper fare" is calculated at the INFLATED fare by 3%! Where got such thing one?

You have to decide for yourself what to believe. But to me, for simple one to one MRT stop, an increase of 7% or 13cents, is totally outrageous.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Meng Seng

Since you are the politician, why not give us examples of one bus ride + one train ride trips? At least 70% of those who take public transport will not have the luxury of a pure train ride trip.

Your use of just single train trips is naive at best and dishonest at worst.

Well, I can't be more dishonest than someone who claims 70% of people enjoys lower fare but the overall figures is just a 2.5% lower fare in total!

It could only mean that 70% of people enjoying 1% or 2% on average lower while the 30% people have to pay 5% or 6% or even more. You can't have your cake and eat it. Mathematics doesn't cheat, only human beings do.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[aurvandil]

Your table presupposes that most of Singaporeans only have to travel from one MRT station to another. This is usually not the case, as most will have to take a bus to the MRT station and possibly another one from the MRT station. These people will save money from the new fares.

This is not true as most people take a feeder service to the MRT. If you are using a feeder svc, you end up paying more.

The truth will come out at the end of the FY, we will get to see the annual general reports. If these again show higher profits, then the assertion that there is a fare reduction cannot be true.

 

[wikiphile]

Dear Cass,

If each and every rides are increased in fare, tell me how do you end up paying lesser than previously?

Yeah, they say, you can keep changing bus or trains.. BUT look, if I live in Tampines and work in City Hall, why should I keep changing buses or trains to waste my time during peak hours just to get "lower" fare? No.. that is NOT "Lower Fare" at all, it may be lower than the new direct fare but NOT Necessarily lower to the old fare.

Goh Meng Seng

If you live in Tampines and work in City Hall, either change the place where you work at to save on your transport costs or change the place where you live at for the same effect, or alternatively get a whole new job and place to stay at.

Your common sense is as abundant as your political sense

 

[HokkienMee]

Well, I can't be more dishonest than someone who claims 70% of people enjoys lower fare but the overall figures is just a 2.5% lower fare in total!

It could only mean that 70% of people enjoying 1% or 2% on average lower while the 30% people have to pay 5% or 6% or even more. You can't have your cake and eat it. Mathematics doesn't cheat, only human beings do.

Goh Meng Seng

i am in the 30% category..
PTC think sinkies are stupid.. duno how to calculate...

 

[cass888]

Well, I can't be more dishonest than someone who claims 70% of people enjoys lower fare but the overall figures is just a 2.5% lower fare in total!

It could only mean that 70% of people enjoying 1% or 2% on average lower while the 30% people have to pay 5% or 6% or even more. You can't have your cake and eat it. Mathematics doesn't cheat, only human beings do.

Goh Meng Seng

You are still evading the questions.

a. Is it or is it not true that most MRT commuters will need to take at least one bus ride in addition to their MRT ride? In fact more than 70%.

b. Do these commuters save or do that not?

And when they say 70% of the people paying lower fare, they mean just that. They do not mean that the fares are more than 2.5% lower. They do not mean that the other 30% also pay lower fare. They also do not mean that the other 30% do not pay a higher fare.

 

[Devil Within]

A few decades ago, cheapest ride was 10cents. Has general public citizens pay increased in similar percentage?

 

[Ramseth]

64岁的陈广荣受访时说：“我习惯乘车直接抵达目的地，不喜欢转车。”上个星期陆交局在文礼转换站举行按车程计算车资展览，他连续两天到场向解说员了解他的车资在新制度下到底是涨了还是减少。

　　他发现，就单程计算，从文礼搭乘地铁到后港，乐龄人士现在享有优惠车资0.71元，明天开始实施新制度后，车资增加到1.05元。从文礼搭乘地铁到樟宜机场，车资将从0.68 元增加到0.86元。

　　针对一些乐龄人士对新车资制度的困扰，公共交通理事会主席余福金受访时指出，乐龄人士和其他缴付成人车资的乘客一样，今后在转车时不多付转车费。与此同时，他们继续在平日早上9时后及周末全日享有优惠，即25%的成人车资折扣。乘搭远程的乐龄人士和学生一样，享有最高收费以7.2公里为顶限，超过7.2公里一概不必再多付钱。据2008年的数据，公共交通平均车程为9.7公里。

　　透过这些优惠，10 个乐龄人士当中有7人明天起每个星期的车费会比之前少。

Is charging senior citizens more or same a fairer fare system? Then, why not do away with senior citizen cards? Let's be fairest, why not? They keep saying 7 out of 10 will pay less. However, if 7 pay 2 cents less, and 3 pay 20 cents more, do your mathematics.

 

[johnny333]

Yeah, right. Vote in the likes of the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan who will bankrupt the country.

CSJ is not even an MP

So why pick on CSJ when its the PAP that has lost billions

 

[cass888]

CSJ is not even an MP

So why pick on CSJ when its the PAP that has lost billions

You're really confused.

Without the PAP, there wouldn't have been billions to lose.

The fact is, you win some, you lose some. Obviously PAP won more than they lost since Singapore has reserves of US$196 billion in CASH and GOLD.

The MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan will say it is too high and want to spend it on bleeding heart policies. Fortunately, he's not even an MP.

In the case of the fares, who the hell cares if 30% pay 20% more? The 70% should be happy they pay 2% less. 70% instead of 66.6%!!!

 

[AndroAsc]

GMS, where did you get the data for the new and old fares? Can you share the source, I would like to do my own calculation too.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

GMS, where did you get the data for the new and old fares? Can you share the source, I would like to do my own calculation too.

You have to do it fast before they change the fare system to the new one by tomorrow 3rd July:

http://www.smrt.com.sg/trains/fares.asp

And..

http://publictransport.sg/publish/ptp/en/distancefare.html


Goh Meng Seng

 

[pocoyo]

Ironically, this applies better to Lee Hsien Loong. Goh Meng Seng is no rich man's son or powerful man's son. There's nothing to 扶 with him. He may hit or he may miss, that's all. It's L.H.L. who needs SM and MM to 扶。

扶where? 扶他的烂扒？

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You are still evading the questions.

a. Is it or is it not true that most MRT commuters will need to take at least one bus ride in addition to their MRT ride? In fact more than 70%.

b. Do these commuters save or do that not?

And when they say 70% of the people paying lower fare, they mean just that. They do not mean that the fares are more than 2.5% lower. They do not mean that the other 30% also pay lower fare. They also do not mean that the other 30% do not pay a higher fare.

Dear Cass,

Frankly speaking, I don't if most MRT commuters will need to take at least one bus ride in addition to their MRT ride. How do you have that magic figure 70%? Just because PTC says so? Nah. I don't believe.

Cass, if you want to tell the truth, you will have to TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, not half half. You or PTC can claim whatever you want but you must tell the other side of the bad news.... Fares may be increased as much as 7% or more for some rides!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[AndroAsc]

Ok, here's my comparison

Case 1A: Direct Short Distance MRT: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Clementi MRT
Old Fare: $1.20
New Fare: $1.25

Case 1B: Direct Med Distance MRT: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Raffles Place MRT
Old Fare: $1.57
New Fare: $1.70

Case 1C: Direct Long Distance MRT: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Tampines MRT
Old Fare: $1.82
New Fare: $1.92

Comments: It seems that direct MRT trips prices all increase regardless of distance traveled.

Case 2A: Feeder Bus to MRT then Direct Short Distance MRT: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Clementi MRT
Old Fare: $0.69 (Bus) + $1.20 (MRT) - $0.50 (Transfer Rebate) = $1.39
New Fare: $0.71 (Bus) + $0.62 (MRT) = $1.33

Case 2B: Feeder Bus to MRT then Direct Med Distance MRT: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Raffles Place MRT
Old Fare: $0.69 (Bus) + $1.57 (MRT) - $0.50 (Transfer Rebate) = $1.76
New Fare: $0.71 (Bus) + $1.04 (MRT) = $1.75

Case 2C: Feeder Bus to MRT then Direct Long Distance MRT: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Tampines MRT
Old Fare: $0.69 (Bus) + $1.82 (MRT) - $0.50 (Transfer Rebate) = $2.01
New Fare: $0.71 (Bus) + $1.23 (MRT) = $1.94

Comments: It seems that a feeder bus trip plus a direct MRT trip has slightly lower pricing under the new fare policy.

Case 3: Feeder Bus to MRT then Direct MRT followed by another Feeder Bus: Choa Chu Kang MRT to Clementi MRT
Old Fare: $0.69 (Bus) + $1.20 (MRT) + $0.69 (Bus) - $1.00 (Transfer Rebate) = $1.58
New Fare: $0.71 (Bus) + $0.62 (MRT) + $0.16 (Bus) = $1.49

Case 4: Direct MRT followed by Trunk Bus (14 stages): Yishun MRT to Choa Chu Kang MRT
Old Fare: $1.41 (MRT) + $1.31 (Bus) - $0.50 (Transfer Rebate) = $2.22
New Fare: $1.49 (MRT) + $0.32 (Bus) = $1.81

Case 5: Direct MRT followed by Trunk Bus (33 stages): Yishun MRT to Choa Chu Kang MRT
Old Fare: $1.41 (MRT) + $1.60 (Bus) - $0.50 (Transfer Rebate) = $2.51
New Fare: $1.49 (MRT) + $0.45 (Bus) = $1.94

Comments: It seems there is significant discount when combining MRT with trunk bus services or multiple feeder bus services.

Case 6: Direct Trunk Bus (14 stages)
Old Fare: $1.31
New Fare: $1.33

Case 7: Direct Trunk Bus (33 stages)
Old Fare: $1.60
New Fare: $1.81

Case 8: Direct Feeder Bus
Old Fare: $0.69
New Fare: $0.71

Comments: It seems that direct bus trips prices all increase regardless of distance traveled and service type (feeder or trunk).

Conclusion:
(1) All direct trips (be it MRT, feeder or trunk) are more expensive.
(2) Direct MRT trips with one feeder bus is about the same price, maybe slightly lower.
(3) Direct MRT trips with one trunk bus has lower price.
(4) Direct MRT trips with multiple bus connections has lower price.

Note that this "study" is done using a few specific routes based on my own personal knowledge. It may not be representative for the routes other people take.

Sorry GMS, it seems on average the most people will pay less money under the new fare with the exception for people who have a direct route to work. Unless I have made any mistakes in my calculations? Please help to check guys! Also, I'm working on the assumption that most Singaporeans will take a bus + MRT to work which may or may not be true.