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Evolutionism vs Creationism (aka Intelligent Design)

The collapse of fundamentalist Creationism:

Additionally, the National Council of Churches USA has issued a teaching resource to "assist people of faith who experience no conflict between science and their faith and who embrace science as one way of appreciating the beauty and complexity of God's creation." This resource cites the Episcopal Church, according to whom the stories of creation in Genesis "should not be understood as historical and scientific accounts of origins but as proclamations of basic theological truths about creation."
 
Repeating the hard truth:

After Darwanian's claim being confirmed scientifically, many protestant demoninations have 'evolved'(pun intended) their position or else they along with their religion will die quick, and they know it :):)
 
Anglican clergyman: Church owes Darwin an apology

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-09-15-anglican-darwin_N.htm?csp=34

LONDON (AP) — The Church of England owes Charles Darwin an apology for its hostile 19th-century reaction to the naturalist's theory of evolution, a cleric wrote on an Anglican website launched Monday.

The Rev. Malcolm Brown, who heads the church's public affairs department, issued the statement to mark Darwin's bicentenary and the 150th anniversary of the seminal work On the Origin of Species, both of which fall next year.

Brown said the Church of England should say it is sorry for misunderstanding him at the time he released his findings and, "by getting our first reaction wrong, encouraging others to misunderstand (Darwin) still."

The Church of England said Brown's statement reflected its position on Darwin but did not constitute an official apology.

The church's stance sets it apart from fundamentalist Christians, who believe evolutionary theory is incompatible with the biblical story of the Earth's creation.

Darwin was born into the Church of England, educated at a church boarding school and trained to become an Anglican priest.

However, his theory that species evolve over generations through a process of natural selection brought him into conflict with the church.

The Church of England did not take an official stance against Darwin's theories, but many senior Anglicans reacted with hostility to his ideas, arguing against them at public debates.

At an Oxford University debate in 1860, the bishop of Oxford, Samuel Wilberforce, famously asked scientist Thomas Huxley whether it was through his grandfather or his grandmother that he claimed to be descended from a monkey. Critics included the Rev. John Stevens Henslow and Adam Sedgwick, both scientists who had taught Darwin at Cambridge. Sedgwick wrote that he found some of Darwin's ideas "utterly false and grievously mischievous."

Brown said that from a modern perspective, it was hard to avoid the thought that the reaction against Darwin was based on what would now be called the "yuck factor ... when he proposed a lineage from apes to humans."

Brown called for a "rapprochement" between Christianity and Darwinism.

The bishop of Swindon, Lee Rayfield, who also is an immunologist, said religion and science were not mutually exclusive.

He said he opposed Christians for whom "evolution is equated with atheism" as well as Darwinists who felt ideas about evolution "completely undermine any kind of credibility for God."

"That's completely wrong," he told British Broadcasting Corp. radio. "It's a false polarization."
 
Charles Darwin reputation is cleared and entered the hall of Martyr together with Galileo:


This is not the first time a cleric or a church has been pressed to apologize for past actions. In 1992, Pope John Paul II said the Roman Catholic Church was wrong to condemn astronomer Galileo Galilei for maintaining that the Earth is not the center of the universe.

The Church of England said sorry two years ago for its role in the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
 
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Whoever fundamentalist creationist here said Darwin 'ended up in hell', God shall honour he/her own words to replace with Darwin 'there' :).
Don't under estimate god.

The fundies here are sadly fighting a dying cause when most of the mainline churches have already changed their position as according to Darwin's theory on "survivability''. Haha..
 
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Evolution is proven beyond all reasonable doubt by an overwhelming amount of evidence, which means that there never was a first man and woman. That means the creationist argument that Adam and Eve were the first people and that they were specially created is falsified.

Can creationist prove scientifically human life can originate from dust?
 
[video=youtube;Y7iSdKqOIHs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iSdKqOIHs[/video]
 
Evolution is proven beyond all reasonable doubt by an overwhelming amount of evidence, which means that there never was a first man and woman. That means the creationist argument that Adam and Eve were the first people and that they were specially created is falsified.

Can creationist prove scientifically human life can originate from dust?

The question whether the God of the Bible is the God that created the first human or life is relating to religious faith rather than science. However, the nature and the characteristics of DNA that all scientists agree (except perhaps only Richard Hawking) have proved that DNA cannot be created. The answer is simple. DNA is a written biological code or language and only intelligent mind can create information. Information cannot exist out of nowhere. Someone has to create or write it.

You are right. Human life cannot originate from dust. Read the Bible carefully. God did just form the first man only from the dust. God breathed the spirit of life into him. The breathe of the spirit of life is none other than the DNA. It is the DNA that turned the 'dust' into life. Science has shown that all life must have DNA because it is the DNA that determined the types of life (and for that matter the tone of our skin colour). Without the DNA everything is lifeless.

None of the Sammyboy 'religious' writers thus far have dared to dispute this. All we see are their countless videos clips and shown, at best, the skelelal remains of dead dinosaurs and other beasts.

And by the way, DNA is the building blocks for all living organisms be it a potato, tomato or human like us (excluding drifters, the doggy, the toronto, and their comarades). So, it is natural that they have many similarities because they were created by the same Creator. This is why we would expect when all paintings by a same painters would bear some common characteristics. That's why experts are able to tell you that a painting is a fake one after they have examining the characteristics from the real one.

So, yes....chimps, monkeys, dogs, bananas have some similiar (or same) DNA but that does not mean that they are evolved from one to another. For evolution of life to take place from one to another, the DNA has to mutate many times over and science has proved that mutations cannot contribute to anything new. In fact, for each mutation, there is a lost of information and the original organism whose DNA has mutated over time will become useless or eveN self-destruct.
 
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Evolution is proven beyond all reasonable doubt by an overwhelming amount of evidence, which means that there never was a first man and woman. That means the creationist argument that Adam and Eve were the first people and that they were specially created is falsified.

Can creationist prove scientifically human life can originate from dust?

The question whether the God of the Bible is the God that created the first human or life is relating to religious faith rather than science. However, the nature and the characteristics of DNA that all scientists agree (except perhaps only Richard Hawking) have proved that DNA cannot be created. The answer is simple. DNA is a written biological code or language and only intelligent mind can create information. Information cannot exist out of nowhere. Someone has to create or write it.

You are right. Human life cannot originate from dust. Read the Bible carefully. God did just form the first man only from the dust. God breathed the spirit of life into him. The breathe of the spirit of life is none other than the DNA. It is the DNA that turned the 'dust' into life. Science has shown that all life must have DNA because it is the DNA that determined the types of life (and for that matter the tone of our skin colour). Without the DNA everything is lifeless.

None of the Sammyboy 'religious' writers thus far have dared to dispute this. All we see are their countless videos clips and shown, at best, the skelelal remains of dead dinosaurs and other beasts.

And by the way, DNA is the building blocks for all living organisms be it a potato, tomato or human like us (excluding drifters, the doggy, the toronto, and their comarades). So, it is natural that they have many similarities because they were created by the same Creator. This is what we would expect when all paintings by a same painters would bear some common characteristics. That's why experts are able to tell you that a painting is a fake one after they have examining the characteristics from the real one.

So, yes....chimps, monkeys, dogs, bananas have some similiar (or same) DNA but that does not mean that they are evolved from one to another. For evolution of life to take place from one to another, the DNA has to mutate many times over and science has proved that mutations cannot contribute to anything new. In fact, for each mutation, there is a lost of information and the original organism whose DNA has mutated over time will become useless or eveN self-destruct.
 
http://ncse.com/creationism/general/intelligent-design-not-accepted-by-most-scientists

"Intelligent Design" Not Accepted by Most Scientists

August 12th, 2002

Reprinted with permission from School Board News, Aug. 13, 2002. Copyright 2002. National School Boards Association. All rights reserved.
by Eugenie C. Scott and Glenn Branch

This spring, a subcommittee of the Ohio Board of Education charged with supervising the preparation of the state's science education standards was petitioned by a citizens' group to include "intelligent design" (ID) along with evolution. As ID becomes better known, other state and local school boards might face similar requests.

What is ID, and does it have a legitimate place in the high school science curriculum?

ID parallels but is not identical to creation science, the view that there is scientific evidence to support the Genesis account of the creation of the earth and of life.

ID and creation science share the belief that the mainstream scientific discipline of evolution is largely incorrect. Both involve an intervening deity, but ID is more vague about what happened and when.

Indeed, ID proponents are tactically silent on an alternative to common descent. Teachers exhorted to teach ID, then, are left with little to teach other than "evolution didn't happen."

An ID high school textbook, Of Pandas and People, mentions "creationism" only once, but this text is recognized by teachers and scientists as being very similar in content to creation science. Since Pandas was published in 1986, the two major innovations in ID have been Michael Behe's concept of "irreducible complexity," presented in Darwin's Black Box in 1996, and William Dembski's "design inference," presented in Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science and Theology in 1999.

Dembski contends that he has developed an algorithm — an "explanatory filter" — that can distinguish the products of "intelligent design" from the workings of natural law and chance. Behe proposes that there are certain biochemical structures that, being "irreducibly complex," cannot have arisen through unguided natural processes.

Neither Dembski's design inference nor Behe's irreducible complexity has fared well in the scholarly world, however.

A search of scientific databases, such as PubMed or SciSearch, reveals that scholars have not applied the concept of irreducible complexity or the design inference in researching scientific problems.

ID has been called an "argument from ignorance," as it relies upon a lack of knowledge for its conclusion: Lacking a natural explanation, we assume intelligent cause.

Most scientists would reply that unexplained is not unexplainable, and that "we don't know yet" is a more appropriate response than invoking a cause outside of science.

A third important book of the ID movement is Jonathan Wells' Icons of Evolution, published in 2000, which claims that biology textbooks promote fraudulent and inaccurate science. Although the reviews of Wells' book by scientists have unanimously regarded it as dishonest and devoid of scientific or educational value, it is being widely circulated among creationists and cited at school board meetings around the country.

ID also includes a "cultural renewal" component, which focuses on ideological and religious rather than scholarly goals.

The Seattle-based Discovery Institute's Center for Renewal of Science and Culture (CRSC) serves as an institutional home for virtually all of the prominent ID proponents, including Dembski, Behe, and Wells. The goals of the CRSC, as stated by the Discovery Institute's director Bruce Chapman, are explicitly religious: to promote Christian theism and to defeat philosophical materialism.

The sectarian orientation of the ID movement cannot be ignored in decisions about whether to include ID in the curriculum.

Courts repeatedly have held that the public school classroom must be religiously neutral and that schools must not advocate religious views. In 1987 the Supreme Court ruled that teaching creationism in the public schools is unconstitutional.

ID proponents may argue that a neutral-sounding "intelligence" is responsible for design, but it is clear from the "cultural renewal" aspect of ID that a deity — in particular, God as He is conceived of by certain conservative Christians — is envisioned as the agent of design. While schools can take no position on this view as religion, it cannot be regarded as science.

Thus, school board members and administrators would be ill-advised to include ID in the public school science curriculum. If the scholarly aspect of ID becomes established — if ID truly becomes incorporated into the scientific mainstream — then, and only then, should school boards consider whether to add it to the curriculum.

Until that day, proposals to introduce ID into curricula should be met with polite but firm explanations that there is as yet no scientific evidence in favor of ID, that ID supporters are wrong to allege that evolution is intrinsically antireligious, and that the sectarian orientation of ID renders it unsuitable for constitutional reasons.

And school board members should be aware that introducing ID into the curriculum is likely to lead to strong opposition — up to and including lawsuits — from those, including parents, teachers, scientists, and clergy, who do not want science education to be compromised.
 
The truths vs lies and denial by hard core creationists:

In all that time, the theory of evolution has only gotten stronger. Prior to the development of evolutionary theory, almost 100 percent of relevant scientists were creationists. Now the number is far less than 1 percent. The numbers continue to drop as the body of evidence supporting evolutionary theory continues to build. Thus, claims of scientists abandoning evolution theory for creationism are untrue.
 
Debunking the creationist lie that mutation cannot produce anything new:


1. Variation of traits is production of novelty, especially where there was no variation before. The accumulation of slight modifications is a basis of evolution.

2. Documentation of mutations producing new features includes the following:
-the ability of a bacterium to digest nylon (Negoro et al. 1994; Thomas n.d.; Thwaites 1985);
-adaptation in yeast to a low-phosphate environment (Francis and Hansche 1972; 1973; Hansche 1975);
-the ability of E. coli to hydrolyze galactosylarabinose (Hall 1981; Hall and Zuzel 1980);
-evolution of multicellularity in a unicellular green alga (Boraas 1983; Boraas et al. 1998);
-modification of E. coli's fucose pathway to metabolize propanediol (Lin and Wu 1984);
-evolution in Klebsiella bacteria of a new metabolic pathway for metabolizing 5-carbon sugars (Hartley 1984);

3. There is evidence for mutations producing other novel proteins:
-Proteins in the histidine biosynthesis pathway consist of beta/alpha barrels with a twofold repeat pattern. These apparently evolved from the duplication and fusion of genes from a half-barrel ancestor (Lang et al. 2000).

Laboratory experiments with directed evolution indicate that the evolution of a new function often begins with mutations that have little effect on a gene's original function but a large effect on a second function. Gene duplication and divergence can then allow the new function to be refined. (Aharoni et al. 2004)

3. For evolution to operate, the source of variation does not matter; all that matters is that heritable variation occurs. Such variation is shown by the fact that selective breeding has produced novel features in many species, including cats, dogs, pigeons, goldfish, cabbage, and geraniums. Some of the features may have been preexisting in the population originally, but not all of them were, especially considering the creationists' view that the animals originated from a single pair.
 
The truths vs lies and denial by hard core creationists:

In all that time, the theory of evolution has only gotten stronger. Prior to the development of evolutionary theory, almost 100 percent of relevant scientists were creationists. Now the number is far less than 1 percent. The numbers continue to drop as the body of evidence supporting evolutionary theory continues to build. Thus, claims of scientists abandoning evolution theory for creationism are untrue.

Bro where did you get this from? Can you please show the link.
 
Bro where did you get this from? Can you please show the link.

Bro methink,
I thought you have disappeared. It is rather interesting observation that a creationist keeps demanding for proof and evidence but non is produced by him/her except presumption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

..it states that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution".

What is your opinion on the topic of discussion?
 
Bro methink,
I thought you have disappeared. It is rather interesting observation that a creationist keeps demanding for proof and evidence but non is produced by him/her except presumption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

..it states that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution".

What is your opinion on the topic of discussion?

Bro, I dun come here very often. Not too regular I must admit. Btw your quote of "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution" is rather mischievous.


"...the percentage of scientists who support evolution has been estimated by Brian Alters to be about 99.9 percent" is the remark of ONE man.

I shall try to come here more often to share my views.
 
Why Bother

Bro, I dun come here very often. Not too regular I must admit. Btw your quote of "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution" is rather mischievous.


"...the percentage of scientists who support evolution has been estimated by Brian Alters to be about 99.9 percent" is the remark of ONE man.

I shall try to come here more often to share my views.


I wonder why you even bother to answer that. :)

The deluded people always have ways to lie and cheat on the data. The late Saddam Hussein once declared to the world that he had got 100% of the votes for him and Bush Jr just laughed it off.

Atheism cannot be treated with seriousness. :D
 
The statistics in 1987

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_o..._for_evolution
Only 700 out of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists gave credence to creationism in 1987, representing about 0.146% of relevant scientists.

then again below...
"According to a 2007 Gallup poll,[SUP][136][/SUP] about 43% of Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." This is only slightly less than the 46% reported in a 2006 Gallup poll.[SUP][137][/SUP] Only 14% believed that "human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process", despite 49% of respondents indicating they believed in evolution."

There's always two sides to a story. I try to be circumspect.
 
Bro, I dun come here very often. Not too regular I must admit. Btw your quote of "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution" is rather mischievous.


"...the percentage of scientists who support evolution has been estimated by Brian Alters to be about 99.9 percent" is the remark of ONE man.

I shall try to come here more often to share my views.

Bro, it is wrong to say that figure is a purely a 'remark'. Brian Alters figure is not based on 'belief' or 'gut feeling'. It is a statistical finding and "American Academy of Scientists" also have very similar figure. You can google it yourself.

Brian Alters is not a dick tom or harry,

Brian Alters
Brian J. Alters is an Associate Professor of Education and Sir William Dawson Scholar at McGill University, where he also holds the Tomlinson Chair in Science Education and is both founder and Director of the Evolution Education Research Centre


Bro methink, can you show me a reliable source that indicates Brian Alter's figure is fraudulent? Or, you can provide a source you believe is reliable on similar statistical polling?
 
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then again below...
"According to a 2007 Gallup poll,[SUP][136][/SUP] about 43% of Americans believe that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so." This is only slightly less than the 46% reported in a 2006 Gallup poll.[SUP][137][/SUP] Only 14% believed that "human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process", despite 49% of respondents indicating they believed in evolution."

There's always two sides to a story. I try to be circumspect.

Bro,
1. Can you confirm the poll was conducted on Americans that are both qualified scientists and biologists?

2. Gallup is a management consulting company, who is the clientele?
 
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