Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[Catherina]

For more discussions on NS obligation , pls refer to http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/forum55.html. I hope it gives better insight.

 

[scroobal]

Please don't refer them to that site. It has too many errors.

For more discussions on NS obligation , pls refer to http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/forum55.html. I hope it gives better insight.

 

[Catherina]

Please don't refer them to that site. It has too many errors.

Hi Scroobal

Could U share with me why it isn't a good site for ref. Where are the errors? The editor Mad Scientist seems to be very helpful with his comments and knowledge on NS matters but unfortunately he was asked to delete most of his comments. Wonder why?.

 

[Soul_Reaper]

For more discussions on NS obligation , pls refer to http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/forum55.html. I hope it gives better insight.

Food for thought..... to serve NS or not to serve?
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=80694

 

[scroobal]

Sis, you just answered the question. The deleting had nothing to do with revealing state secrets etc. There were just too many errors and it was misleading. I acknowledge that they are sincere in trying to help others and on something that is very important and I also acknowledge that not many people are prepared to do it.

Asking dual citizens who are minors to go to ICA to stamp the "Right of entry" stamp on the foreign passport is a big no no. That signifies that the state now provides protection and is now enjoying privileges of citizenship.

Holding dual citizenship is not a crime and there is no legislation to that effect. Even Australia until 2004 had written legislation before it was abolished. Singapore never had such a legislation. The govt does not encourage it and they only have powers to revoke your citizenship but cannot prosecute for dual or multiple citizenship. No one has been charged in court since we became a nation. Erroneous comments scares people away and someone of them immediately cancel their Singapore citizenship for fear of committing an offence.

When you obtain citizenship from foreign countries, they will advice you to present your passport of the country that you are entering and leaving something that international protocol prefers for census purpose. Singapore however has legislation under which you can be prosecuted if you do not present your Singapore passport but not dual citizenship. You can present your Singapore passport, while holding your Canadian passport and waving at the ICA and he will wither ask you to help your self to a sweet or ask you is Canada better.

The process is rather simple, when you are 13 apply for exit permit. At this stage, indicate that your son has migrated and will give up his passport when he reaches 21. Not need to photocopy all the pages, write long story. This applies to kids who left before the age of 11. The new age cut-off is suspected to be 13. At 16.5, apply for deferment. All this can be done via email but not thru the NS portal as suggested.

People at age 65 charged and jailed for defaulting is bullshit. The country only got its sovereignty in 1965. And the enlistment act kicked in 1967. There is also a cut-off age for NS defaulters who return and they will not be jailed but fined. All they have to do is call CMPB, enquire about their status and make arrangements to be met at the airport. They will not be handcuffed. They will however have to face the consequences. And many are prepared to pay the price.

Many of the advice are alarmist and people are so scared to apply for exit permit, reveal address, frighten to enter singapore as they hold dual citizenship etc.

Hi Scroobal

Could U share with me why it isn't a good site for ref. Where are the errors? The editor Mad Scientist seems to be very helpful with his comments and knowledge on NS matters but unfortunately he was asked to delete most of his comments. Wonder why?.

 

[Catherina]

There is also a cut-off age for NS defaulters who return and they will not be jailed but fined.

Thanks Scroobal.
1. What is the cut off age for NS defaulter ?
2. Are U sure NS defaulters will not be jailed but only fined!!!! Didn't the amended NS law (2006) stated fined and 3 year jail.
3. Wonder will the amended NS law (2006) on defaulter applied if he is a defaulter in 2004.

 

[fishbuff]

Food for thought..... to serve NS or not to serve?
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=80694

ptff... soul reaper is a typical dumb brainless sinkie mentality. min 12years of education and still cant think out of the box.

 

[Dole43]

2. Are U sure NS defaulters will not be jailed but only fined!!!! Didn't the amended NS law (2006) stated fined and 3 year jail.

My understanding of the 2006 amendment after the piano man case is the boy, if he is still of NS-serving age, is given a choice of doing either 2 years NS or 3 years jail. Under the new rule, the father will be jailed 3 years and fined $10,000 because he is the reason why the son is not around to serve NS.

Getting the exit permit for a 13 year old boy is straightforward, just apply on the NS Portal, no documentation is requested. But I was told by Mindef helpdesk that my boy needs to show his face at CMPB within 2 years after receiving his exit permit., even if it is just for a day. Is it to go see them to post bond? Will father and son get stuck in Singapore if we go visit CMPB? Anyone ever encountered this before?

 

[kiwibri]

Hi Scroobal, thanks for all your info. Very useful as always. I have 2 questions:
1. If CPF monies was used for investment (shares), what happens when one renounces and pulls out CPF?? Do they force-sell your shares?
2. Son left SG at 7mths. Now the passport going to expire 2011 and need to renew, eligible for other country citizenship in 2012. Renew SG passport or not? Or get some other form of travel document for holidays to SG/MY???

Thanks!!!

 

[scroobal]

1&2&3. Guideline 41 others factors come into play. Suggest contact CMPB, have to provide personal details. They will only deal with defaulter. There is of course court conviction and fine.

Thanks Scroobal.
1. What is the cut off age for NS defaulter ?
2. Are U sure NS defaulters will not be jailed but only fined!!!! Didn't the amended NS law (2006) stated fined and 3 year jail.
3. Wonder will the amended NS law (2006) on defaulter applied if he is a defaulter in 2004.

 

[scroobal]

15 is the age of NRIC and bond kicks in. Don't go. Just apply and just show that he is schooling oversea and seek renewal of exit permit until 16, then deferment. Don't talk to the outsourced contact centre, talk to CMPB directly.

Getting the exit permit for a 13 year old boy is straightforward, just apply on the NS Portal, no documentation is requested. But I was told by Mindef helpdesk that my boy needs to show his face at CMPB within 2 years after receiving his exit permit., even if it is just for a day. Is it to go see them to post bond? Will father and son get stuck in Singapore if we go visit CMPB? Anyone ever encountered this before?

 

[scroobal]

You will have to sell it yourself. They will not proceed until you proceed to normalise your account. They are probably the best Govt agency. They know exactly what needs to be done. Also can do from the comfort of your new home using the internet.

Don't renew. Wait for the gap to close. I know people who waited for 4 years. Get the Ah Kong and gang to visit your family and tell them to bring the ready mixes for the local food.

In emergency, for PRs, all 1st world countries will issue temp travel papers, no need passport. Perfectly acceptable.

Hi Scroobal, thanks for all your info. Very useful as always. I have 2 questions:
1. If CPF monies was used for investment (shares), what happens when one renounces and pulls out CPF?? Do they force-sell your shares?
2. Son left SG at 7mths. Now the passport going to expire 2011 and need to renew, eligible for other country citizenship in 2012. Renew SG passport or not? Or get some other form of travel document for holidays to SG/MY???

Thanks!!!

 

[Dole43]

15 is the age of NRIC and bond kicks in. Don't go. Just apply and just show that he is schooling oversea and seek renewal of exit permit until 16, then deferment. Don't talk to the outsourced contact centre, talk to CMPB directly.

Thanks Scroobal, what you said sounds good.

 

[Catherina]

My understanding of the 2006 amendment after the piano man case is the boy, if he is still of NS-serving age, is given a choice of doing either 2 years NS or 3 years jail. Under the new rule, the father will be jailed 3 years and fined $10,000 because he is the reason why the son is not around to serve NS.

Hi Dole43

Are U making a joke? where on the 2006 amendment state the father will be jailed 3 yrs n fined 10K !!

Btw where are you in GTA ? I used to live in Balm Beach, Simcoe county for 10 years, Winter is full of fun there n love it very much.

 

[kiwibri]

Thanks Scroobal...
"Don't renew"...this applies even if the new passport will expire at age 10 (before the age 11 "limit")? I find it sneaky that a "age limit" is applied. Frankly, for those unfortunate males to have been born in SG but leave when very young, it may take several years before they can obtain the citizenship of the new home country.

As for the local food, methinks those who have migrated permanently away from SG would have become proficient cooks. ha ha.

Don't renew. Wait for the gap to close. I know people who waited for 4 years. Get the Ah Kong and gang to visit your family and tell them to bring the ready mixes for the local food.
In emergency, for PRs, all 1st world countries will issue temp travel papers, no need passport. Perfectly acceptable.

 

[Ash007]

As for the local food, methinks those who have migrated permanently away from SG would have become proficient cooks. ha ha.

Actually, you might be surprise at how accurate that statement is. I was, when I moved here, I started to cook. The amazing thing is it felt so much better cooking and eating the food here compared to back home. I used to eat out all the time and the occasional Maggi noodle if I become too lazy. Over here, I started using the oven, the grill, the fryer.

 

[neddy]

As for the local food, methinks those who have migrated permanently away from SG would have become proficient cooks. ha ha.

Agree.
spent a few years studying uni in the UK and get my "diploma" in Far East Asian cooking (better than the Chop Suey* shop 5 miles away)

graduate to "master degree" cook after migrating.
Master degree because my cooking has wok-hei and my mee goreng got wok-see.
My chilli crabs uses 3 types of chillies, a visitor comment that it is better than Harry's Singapore Chilli Crab in Sydney!

Maybe I should open Ned's Singapore Chilli Crab cafe.

* Chinese takeaway with 80% business doing fish & chippies

 

[Dole43]

Hi Dole43

Are U making a joke? where on the 2006 amendment state the father will be jailed 3 yrs n fined 10K !!

Btw where are you in GTA ? I used to live in Balm Beach, Simcoe county for 10 years, Winter is full of fun there n love it very much.

Maybe I'm mistaken, thought I read about it somewhere, probably from the internet. Its in mindef's faq that the penalty regime for the parents is $2000 fine, if the child does not have exit permit between the ages 13 to 16.5. I can't find any info on what is the penalty from 16.5 to 18, so I can believe anything I hear .

Collingwood, Wasaga Beach are like beach and ski resort locations, must have been nice for you. I'm somewhere in the golden horseshoe area.

 

[jerryw4]

Hi scroobal

Can you confirm the your post on 1 page (below info) is current as at today? Thank you very much.

I thought in view of the interest expressed, it might be pertinent to put couple of things together for those who are planning to migrate and seek a new life. You will never find anything with clarity with the autocratic PAP and I do not want to see the Elites benefiting and the rest making the wrong decision.

This thread is not about migrating. This is for those who have made the decision and looking for help with some aspects. Others are welcome to throw in their view and experiences

Do note that things change over time.

NS Obligations

Those with boy migrating and who leave these shores before their boys reach the age of 11 yrs are not obliged to do NS but have to follow the necessary procedures to get exemption. Passports expire at the age of 11 and that should be an indicator.

Once you have left, do not renew the passport, apply for NRIC etc as one is deemed to enjoyed the privileges of citizenship and NS become mandatory.

At age 13, apply to CMPB for exit visa stating that your family has migrated and the kids is enrolled in a school in the new country. No bond is required. CMPB uses an outsourced agency to handle call centre matters and they have no clue about migrant cases. Go directly to CMPB.

At age 16.5, you need to register for NS ( an interesting term as you are actually seeking deferment). You can do it by post to CMPB again citing that you have migrated, acquired new citizenship and the kids is schooling. You will be given deferment until the age of 21 where the kid must decide if they want to hold on their Singapore citizenship. If they do, than NS must be served. If not, exmeption for ever.

All Singaporeans, male and female cannot renounce their citizenship until age 21, and if they have acquired new citizenship, they will be dual citizens.

In the meantime, one can travel in and out of Singapore without bond and using the passport of their new country.

Those who left after 11 years, unfortunately are obliged to serve.

Note: If your child's Singapore passport expires at the age of 11 and the family is not eligible for new citizenship, the kid will not be able to travel. Do resist the pain of not visiting Singapore unless you want him to serve NS. Do not let friends and extended family members make decisions for your kids.

Whatever it is, do be careful so that your kid can travel in and out of Singapore when he grows up and not be banned.

 

[Catherina]

Hi scroobal

Can you confirm the your post on 1 page (below info) is current as at today? Thank you very much.

Hi jerry

What's your question , it's on NS matters? There are more posters willing to help you here I guess.