Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[scroobal]

If you do not want your child to do NS, these are the following pointers

1) the previous cut-off age is 11 yrs and now I believe is 13 years of age. Since he is 7 years, he need not do NS, be bonded etc if he is no longer in the country.

2) The operating condition for not doing NS is not to enjoy the"privileges of citizenship" and that includes not renewing his passport when it expires at age 13, obtain NRIC etc.

3) When he reaches 13, write to Mindef and state that your son has migrated. They will then give you exit permit until 16.5 yrs of age when you have to apply for deferment. This time they will give you deferment until 21 yrs. When reaches 21, he will have to decide if he wants to keep his Singapore citizenship. If he does, he will have to return to Singapore for NS. Note Mindef will require of EU status and passport.

If the above steps are followed, your son can travel in and out of singapore for visits using the Singapore (until it expires ) and then the EU passport or the EU passport.

Do write directly to Mindef for clarification. Do not deal with NS portal or call centre as it has been outsourced and they are not familiar with migrant cases.

Many parents are so afraid that they do not apply for the exits permits/deferment and the kids can never enter Singapore. The biggest fear is providing contact address.

Summary
- obtain exit permit as he is reaching 13 yrs of age. No bond required. State clearly you have migrated.
- obtain deferment at age 16
- decided on singapore citizenship at age 21. Singapore citizenship cannot be renounced before 21 yrs of age.
- do not renew singapore passport when he reaches 13. If its valid after that, you must have a valid exit permit, so do apply prior to visit.
- clarifiy with Mindef directly stating clearly your migrant status.

Long time have not been to this forum. Again my child situation is haunting me. Just want to make long story short here. Is a child holding dual citizenship (EU and SG) will be fine living in Malaysia without being asked to pay bond, force to come back for NS? I took him out to France when he was 3 and now he's 7 yrs old. Circumstance make us wants to move to Malaysia.

 

[Asychee]

If you do not want your child to do NS, these are the following pointers

1) the previous cut-off age is 11 yrs and now I believe is 13 years of age. Since he is 7 years, he need not do NS, be bonded etc if he is no longer in the country.

2) The operating condition for not doing NS is not to enjoy the"privileges of citizenship" and that includes not renewing his passport when it expires at age 13, obtain NRIC etc.

3) When he reaches 13, write to Mindef and state that your son has migrated. They will then give you exit permit until 16.5 yrs of age when you have to apply for deferment. This time they will give you deferment until 21 yrs. When reaches 21, he will have to decide if he wants to keep his Singapore citizenship. If he does, he will have to return to Singapore for NS. Note Mindef will require of EU status and passport.

If the above steps are followed, your son can travel in and out of singapore for visits using the Singapore (until it expires ) and then the EU passport or the EU passport.

Do write directly to Mindef for clarification. Do not deal with NS portal or call centre as it has been outsourced and they are not familiar with migrant cases.

Many parents are so afraid that they do not apply for the exits permits/deferment and the kids can never enter Singapore. The biggest fear is providing contact address.

Summary
- obtain exit permit as he is reaching 13 yrs of age. No bond required. State clearly you have migrated.
- obtain deferment at age 16
- decided on singapore citizenship at age 21. Singapore citizenship cannot be renounced before 21 yrs of age.
- do not renew singapore passport when he reaches 13. If its valid after that, you must have a valid exit permit, so do apply prior to visit.
- clarifiy with Mindef directly stating clearly your migrant status.

Hi

Can post which department to write to please. Call them - give me the merry go round

 

[cheongster123]

I hope Singapore will follow suit and allow ex-Singapore citizens to re-apply to have their Singapore citizenships re-instated.
Unfortunately, it's just hoping.

Dual Citizenship

With many countries moving towards retaining talent, previous restrictions on holding more than one citizenship by a number of governments around the world has been set aside.

Australia which prior to April 2002, had it in law where Dual Citizenship was explicitly prohibited now allows it and they have gone one step further by allowing ex-citizens to re-apply their citizenship which they previously renounced.
There is no law in Singapore that prohibits dual citizenship. The law however provides the govt to take it take it away from you for reasons best known to them. No one has been prosecuted for having dual citizenship. Since there is no law prohibiting it, there is no law allowing for punishment.

If you have acquired a new citizenship from a new country and don't need to take out your CPF, you may consider holding on to it. Your options are certainly better.

If you have any doubts visit ICA personally bringing your new country's documents with you. I know that ICA will not give you an answer over the phone without citing documents. There may be instance where you have a criminal record etc, Singapore might take the opportunity to get rid of you. Tan Wah Piow case comes to mind. As Tan Wah Piow did not acquire British citizenship and held on to his Singapore citizenship, Jayakumar and company enacted new legislation. I understand that this legislation has been removed.

Do we mindful not to make false declarations.

As always keep up with the times.

 

[mamezou]

Hi I'd like to ask...

I am a dual citizen (Singaporean by registration) currently serving NS now. I ORD late next year.

I received the letter stating that I have to take the oath of renunciation,allegiance and loyalty before my 22nd birthday in order to maintain my status as a Singapore citizen.


I called up ICA today who directed me to speak to an officer in Mindef.

I was told that if I decide to renounce my citizenship, I will be able to discontinue my NS and have to leave the country within 24 hours. But I will not be considered as a deserter and be allowed to come back to Singapore for social visits.

In addition, I was told that I will only be able to renounce my citizenship right on the day before my birthday( early next year).


I have every intention of renouncing my citizenship as I have lived overseas for most of my life, and only came back for national service. And to be honest( no offense) I find it difficult to adapt to Singapore and can never consider this country my home.

My question is that will I be able to "ORD" on the day when I renounce my citizenship or will the gov. screw me over and withhold the registration of declaration of renunciation of Singapore Citizenship? I have heard of some cases where it had happened, and it was on this website. http://www.guidemesingapore.com/singapore-immigration/c639-renouncing-singapore-citizenship.htm

Should I go down to ICA to clarify things?
Is there something I can do to make sure that the gov will not withhold my registration of declaration of renunciation for sure?

Could anyone please help me...Thank you very much.

 

[kingrant]

If you have lived most of yr life out of Singapore, esp. if you left when you were a child before age 5 (I think), then you can be considered as never having enjoyed the citizenship privileges, so I didnt think you even need to do yr NS. Now that you are doing NS , when you ORD, there is nothing the govt can hold you. Even if you are still a citizen, you can ask for disruption because you have migrated. Much less when you are renouncing yr citizenship, why shld they penalise you further? You are free. Singapore govt cannot stop you.

Hi I'd like to ask...

I am a dual citizen (Singaporean by registration) currently serving NS now. I ORD late next year.

I received the letter stating that I have to take the oath of renunciation,allegiance and loyalty before my 22nd birthday in order to maintain my status as a Singapore citizen.


I called up ICA today who directed me to speak to an officer in Mindef.

I was told that if I decide to renounce my citizenship, I will be able to discontinue my NS and have to leave the country within 24 hours. But I will not be considered as a deserter and be allowed to come back to Singapore for social visits.

In addition, I was told that I will only be able to renounce my citizenship right on the day before my birthday( early next year).


I have every intention of renouncing my citizenship as I have lived overseas for most of my life, and only came back for national service. And to be honest( no offense) I find it difficult to adapt to Singapore and can never consider this country my home.

My question is that will I be able to "ORD" on the day when I renounce my citizenship or will the gov. screw me over and withhold the registration of declaration of renunciation of Singapore Citizenship? I have heard of some cases where it had happened, and it was on this website. http://www.guidemesingapore.com/singapore-immigration/c639-renouncing-singapore-citizenship.htm

Should I go down to ICA to clarify things?
Is there something I can do to make sure that the gov will not withhold my registration of declaration of renunciation for sure?

Could anyone please help me...Thank you very much.

 

[kingrant]

If you continue to stay away, or keep yr child out of Singapore, at least until he's past 13, then he has never benefited from schooling here, or enjoyed any of the govt's subsidy in education or whatvere, yr child is basically unobligated to serve NS.

Long time have not been to this forum. Again my child situation is haunting me. Just want to make long story short here. Is a child holding dual citizenship (EU and SG) will be fine living in Malaysia without being asked to pay bond, force to come back for NS? I took him out to France when he was 3 and now he's 7 yrs old. Circumstance make us wants to move to Malaysia.

 

[kingrant]

Write to OC CMB --Central Manpower Base.

Also can google for sgdi.gov.sg and search for CMB. sgdi is the singapore govt directory interactive.

Hi

Can post which department to write to please. Call them - give me the merry go round

 

[scroobal]

This is a bit trickly as NS is not only an obligation of a citizen but also that of a PR under most conditions. Both have considered to have enjoyed privileges of being in Singapore. I am inclined to believe the word of the officer. Can you get him to put it in writing. As you have already part NS, you will still be liable for reservist if you return to Singapore to work. However not for social visits.

Anyway, I am sure you are still going to renounce it so might as well go thru it. By the way, go to JB and you can return on 3 months social visit pass. But I am sure you want to take for your real home real soon.

Good luck.

Hi I'd like to ask...
My question is that will I be able to "ORD" on the day when I renounce my citizenship or will the gov. screw me over and withhold the registration of declaration of renunciation of Singapore Citizenship? I have heard of some cases where it had happened, and it was on this website. http://www.guidemesingapore.com/singapore-immigration/c639-renouncing-singapore-citizenship.htm

Should I go down to ICA to clarify things?
Is there something I can do to make sure that the gov will not withhold my registration of declaration of renunciation for sure?

Could anyone please help me...Thank you very much.

 

[brokuan0]

Hi scroobal sir,
1) how can i renouce my boys sg citizenship if he now holds a australian citizenship?
2) If we didnt apply exit permit for him & he travels back to singapore(using aussie passport) for school holidays is it okay? he is currently 16 going to 16.5
& out of singapore since 11years old.

Thank you & wish you good health.

If you do not want your child to do NS, these are the following pointers

1) the previous cut-off age is 11 yrs and now I believe is 13 years of age. Since he is 7 years, he need not do NS, be bonded etc if he is no longer in the country.

2) The operating condition for not doing NS is not to enjoy the"privileges of citizenship" and that includes not renewing his passport when it expires at age 13, obtain NRIC etc.

3) When he reaches 13, write to Mindef and state that your son has migrated. They will then give you exit permit until 16.5 yrs of age when you have to apply for deferment. This time they will give you deferment until 21 yrs. When reaches 21, he will have to decide if he wants to keep his Singapore citizenship. If he does, he will have to return to Singapore for NS. Note Mindef will require of EU status and passport.

If the above steps are followed, your son can travel in and out of singapore for visits using the Singapore (until it expires ) and then the EU passport or the EU passport.

Do write directly to Mindef for clarification. Do not deal with NS portal or call centre as it has been outsourced and they are not familiar with migrant cases.

Many parents are so afraid that they do not apply for the exits permits/deferment and the kids can never enter Singapore. The biggest fear is providing contact address.

Summary
- obtain exit permit as he is reaching 13 yrs of age. No bond required. State clearly you have migrated.
- obtain deferment at age 16
- decided on singapore citizenship at age 21. Singapore citizenship cannot be renounced before 21 yrs of age.
- do not renew singapore passport when he reaches 13. If its valid after that, you must have a valid exit permit, so do apply prior to visit.
- clarifiy with Mindef directly stating clearly your migrant status.

 

[eatshitndie]

Could anyone please help me...Thank you very much.[/PoQUOTE]

get out as soon as you legally can. do not wait.

 

[scroobal]

If he went to OZ with the passport that expired at age 11 years, then he is can opt out for NS when reaches 21. Write to Mindef to say that your son has migrated and that you seeking deferment until age 21 yrs and he will renounce his citizenship.

Do so before he reaches 16. 5. As of 2 years back they began imposing fines for those who had not sought exit permit to remain outside Singapore after they turn 13. You can compound the fine but the rest will be ok.

If however he left for OZ at age 11 using the passport that did not expire at age 11, then he will be liable for NS.

Hi scroobal sir,
1) how can i renouce my boys sg citizenship if he now holds a australian citizenship?
2) If we didnt apply exit permit for him & he travels back to singapore(using aussie passport) for school holidays is it okay? he is currently 16 going to 16.5
& out of singapore since 11years old.

Thank you & wish you good health.

 

[Beckenham]

Yeah, not surprised that many sinkies harbour thoughts of migration.

My personal experience when I announced my resignation from MOE as a teacher was met by nodding looks from other teachers. Turns out quite a few of them got PR or have intentions to migrate.

Fast forward to now. My personal circle of friends include at least 7 ex-teachers, with more on the way to Oz.

If teachers who are supposed to be the flag bearers for National Education migrate, what about the students? Many of my students tell me that they will migrate if they have a chance and they may know more about life overseas than adults.

 

[nayr69sg]

Yeah, not surprised that many sinkies harbour thoughts of migration.

My personal experience when I announced my resignation from MOE as a teacher was met by nodding looks from other teachers. Turns out quite a few of them got PR or have intentions to migrate.

Fast forward to now. My personal circle of friends include at least 7 ex-teachers, with more on the way to Oz.

If teachers who are supposed to be the flag bearers for National Education migrate, what about the students? Many of my students tell me that they will migrate if they have a chance and they may know more about life overseas than adults.

My wife was also a teacher.

I don't think the Singapore government bothers that much about local born citizens migrating as long as there are enough foreigners who want to migrate to Singapore.

 

[nayr69sg]

Hey scroobal,

I thought the last time the advice was that the child has to get a foreign citizenship before he turns 11 years old in order not to have to serve NS?

What information has changed that figure to 13 years of age instead?

 

[John Henry]

If he went to OZ with the passport that expired at age 11 years, then he is can opt out for NS when reaches 21. Write to Mindef to say that your son has migrated and that you seeking deferment until age 21 yrs and he will renounce his citizenship.

Do so before he reaches 16. 5. As of 2 years back they began imposing fines for those who had not sought exit permit to remain outside Singapore after they turn 13. You can compound the fine but the rest will be ok.

If however he left for OZ at age 11 using the passport that did not expire at age 11, then he will be liable for NS.

I would like some clarification. My son was born in January 1999. He has a passport since Feb 1999 valid for 1O yrs. We renew it in August 2OO8 valid for 5 yrs.

He was in school here up to primary 4 and then went over to OZ with his mother in December 2OO9 which was 1 month before his 11th birthday. His mother has OZ PR.

In January 2O1O, he started primary school there [year 5] on a student visa. His mother will be applying OZ PR for him next month as advised by the school principal.

As my son's passport will expire in August 2O13 by which time he is 14 yrs old, will he have to return for NS?

When should we inform Mindef / ICA?
Does he need to apply for exit permit when he reaches 13?
If my son's passport expire and he does not renew it, will he be banned from visiting his relatives in singapore?
Do we write to CPMB or Mindef ?

I am unable to join them now as I have contractual obligations to fulfill but I intend to move over permanently once my contract ends in a couple more years.

 

[scroobal]

The passport no longer expires at age 11 for male singaporeans which was the previous indicator. Since 15 Aug 2006, all passports have full validity even for kids that are below 11.

However exit permit for males previously required from age 16.5 is now lowered to 13 yrs.

The changes were done after the uproar over the silly UK based pianist who skipped NS decades ago.

So if you have migrated, make sure when the kid turns 13, to apply for exit permit which will run until 16.5 of age. You then have to apply for deferment until age 21 where the kid has to decide if he wants to renounce singapore citizenship.

All this is dependent on the basis that PR was granted when they left Singapore. Merely residing overseas on various visas don't count.

Hey scroobal,

I thought the last time the advice was that the child has to get a foreign citizenship before he turns 11 years old in order not to have to serve NS?

What information has changed that figure to 13 years of age instead?

 

[scroobal]

Student visa don't count. If he gets the PR before 13, it will work. Don't apply for passport when the passport expires. Once you renew the passport, he is deemed to have enjoyed the privileges of singapore citizenship and therefore liable for NS.

Many families have forgone travel to Singapore until they receive OZ citizenship and they then apply for OZ passport. OZ and other 1st world countries will issue you temporary papers for PRs who want to travel to attend family tragedies etc.

Once he reaches 13 whether he has PR or not, apply for exit permit based on student visa.

No ban is you do not renew your passport. If you do not get exit permit, definite fine.

I would like some clarification. My son was born in January 1999. He has a passport since Feb 1999 valid for 1O yrs. We renew it in August 2OO8 valid for 5 yrs.

He was in school here up to primary 4 and then went over to OZ with his mother in December 2OO9 which was 1 month before his 11th birthday. His mother has OZ PR.

In January 2O1O, he started primary school there [year 5] on a student visa. His mother will be applying OZ PR for him next month as advised by the school principal.

.

 

[rofthelper]

No. Application must be made by one parent who is at least a singapore citizen within a year of birth. Do note that citizenship status is now more complicated due new immigrants been given citizenship. There are things such as citizenship by birth and decent. Any kid born overseas must still register.

Paiseh, bro scoolbal. For example, if the child is born in Philippines with a pinoy wife and a Singaporean husband, is he not a Singaporean by descent? Besides the overseas birth cert, does the child need any DNA report by the HSA to support the citizenship application?

 

[scroobal]

Not my area of knowledge but I understand that the birth must be registered with the Singapore authorities within a year of birth. Better check with the authorities.

Paiseh, bro scoolbal. For example, if the child is born in Philippines with a pinoy wife and a Singaporean husband, is he not a Singaporean by descent? Besides the overseas birth cert, does the child need any DNA report by the HSA to support the citizenship application?

 

[ashjaw]

Hi Scroobal,
I am just wondering what will happen in the following scenarios:
a) if one applies for a new passport before 11 yr old, will he be given a 5 yr (standard) or just until 13?
b) if one applies for a new passport before 13 yr old, what then? same as (a)?

P.S. we are allowed to apply for a new passport even before the passport expires so it allows us to plan ahead

TIA

Student visa don't count. If he gets the PR before 13, it will work. Don't apply for passport when the passport expires. Once you renew the passport, he is deemed to have enjoyed the privileges of singapore citizenship and therefore liable for NS.