Does this make Sense!

[scroobal]

I came across the statement below in one of the threads. What do you think?

http://www.singsupplies.com/showpost.php?p=395369&postcount=2
The thing about a minimum wage is just that.... unscrupulous employers will pay just that... the minimum. And foreigners will be willing to be paid less than the minimum.

 

[saratogas]

Errr.... Your sense and their sense are different. Some people just want to make cents $$$.

 

[eatshitndie]

I came across the statement below in one of the threads. What do you think?

http://www.singsupplies.com/showpost.php?p=395369&postcount=2
The thing about a minimum wage is just that.... unscrupulous employers will pay just that... the minimum. And foreigners will be willing to be paid less than the minimum.

it's easily circumvented or abused, due to lack of enforcement. in the u.s., not all states adopt it, causing businesses to move operations across borders just to avoid it.

 

[elephanto]

One look at this familiar statement & I need not click on the link.

Only PAPPIE ELITE with Lui*uck*ou avatar can post something like this.

To be fair, his is an oft quoted line & generally any microecons 101 will tell you it is a motherhood statement like 'Mum is female'.

Whether price floor or price ceiling (in this case income), it is always a sin to interfere with Free Demand & Supply forces, purists will tell you.

But is Spore labor mkt especially for entry level positions a 'perfect mkt' ?
Are there overriding social imperatives for intervention ?

In a way, if private sector were to peg their starting pay with civil service or stat boards, that is in a way, a minimum wage equivalent.

I suspect our PAP govt will never implement minimum wage policy because
1. dun want to appear business/employer-unfriendly
2. prefer to compensate low wage earners with Workfare/ 'New-Growth kachang-puteh mini ang-pows or utility offsets (which is basically accounting) to score political points.

Coming back to the original question, no, InternetBrigade's statement doesn't make sense. Minimum means a certain assured bottom better than the current level, & if policy, foreigners' willingness to accept doesn't mean employers can legally employ.

P.S. Scroo, can forget abt advising him to change his nauseating avatar (I have tried), he has poor taste & wants to make a statement of with 'no porn' Lui's mugshot in uniform.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

The thing about a minimum wage is just that.... unscrupulous employers will pay just that... the minimum. And foreigners will be willing to be paid less than the minimum.

So what happens here is you actually made singaporeans more expensive vis-a-vis foreigners.

So some policies sound great from the populous standpoint. Be they end up doing more damage.

I received the above comments and my rebuttal as follows:

What is the salary of the offer cleaner now? $900?
What is the salary of the dish washer now? $700?
What is the salary of the people who clear your plates at foodcourts? $850?

Then make the minimum wage $1,000 (example la). Do you think it is fair for the Singaporean to earn $800/month when cost of a chicken rice is $3?

Public transport cost $2/trip = $4/day
Breakfast = $2
Lunch = $3
Dinner = $3
Total cost per month = $12/day * 30days = $360
That is almost 50% of gross salary $800. How about rental cost? Utilities cost? CPF?

I think you have mis-understood my suggestion. In fact, the suggestion I have given would make employers hire Singaporeans over foreigners.

EXAMPLE:
Minimum wages for Singaporean = $1,000

Foreigner willing to be paid $800
Then let Levy for foreigners = $220
Net cost for employer = $1,020

If you are an employer you would hire Singaporean or foreigner?
If the employer still want foreigner as PRC perceived to be more hardworking then that employer pay $20 in addition lah.
Gov't earn money then can reduce income tax.

If the Gov't cant commit on the Levy fees then dont. Have a law in place to say that the Levy will determined in the next accounting year when the Gov't received market information on how much a Singaporean earn in the previous year then the Gov't will use this as a basis to price the Levy.

This is just a suggestion, like I said, I am not smart and need the Gov't to work.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

I came across the statement below in one of the threads. What do you think?

http://www.singsupplies.com/showpost.php?p=395369&postcount=2
The thing about a minimum wage is just that.... unscrupulous employers will pay just that... the minimum. And foreigners will be willing to be paid less than the minimum.

Yes. That's why care must be taken when setting minimum wages.
I suggestion is to group the occupations and set the minimum wages.

Cleaners - $1,000
Sales person - $1,500
etc

This is just PAP excuses. They should do some form of exercise to determine the reasonable minimum wages.
How about learning from Australia who have done well in this system?

I am not afraid of minimum wages. I'm skilled, if my Company don't pay me well, I'll leave and look for another Company.

If foreigners are willing to be paid lesser than the minimum then good, more income for the Gov't and reduce income tax.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

it's easily circumvented or abused, due to lack of enforcement. in the u.s., not all states adopt it, causing businesses to move operations across borders just to avoid it.

Ya la.
In the first place, this thing may have never happen if we didn't import so many foreigners.

 

[eatshitndie]

Ya la.
In the first place, this thing may have never happen if we didn't import so many foreigners.

right. find the root cause and deal with it. imposing minimum wage is not finding and cannot deal with the root cause. it will turn many small businesses to cash compensation style hiring, just like the businesses here in the u.s.

 

[elephanto]

Actually I think many people miss the fine print.

What LKY & ESC mentioned is the need to CAP CURRENT GROWTH RATE of FT Intake.

'Cap' as in tops, maintain, no more (not necessary less).

In other words, there will still BE FT intake, GROWING at no more than the current FT growth rate.

And that only for next 5 years, after which, who knows they may UP the intake rate again.

So, we will still see MORE & MORE FT coming.

In our exuberance, we thought the powers that be have seen the light & will undertake to reduce FT.

Not a hope.

 

[Highfalutin]

What is the minimum wage for a PAP Cabinet Minister?

 

[eatshitndie]

What is the minimum wage for a PAP Cabinet Minister?

that's a piercing way to ask a question.

 

[Highfalutin]

that's a piercing way to ask a question.

If I can do better, I would, with a sniper rifle and a 7.62 round.

 

[makapaaa]

I think a min. wage law without a law to ensure jobs go to qualified Sporeans first won't do the job.

 

[Rogue Trader]

i have posted the same in the other minimal wage related thread. We shouldn't be just looking a the wage portion in isolation from the whole economy. wage increase without any compensating factor lead to spiralling inflations like the 2007 gst increase.
Find incentive to keep other cost low, like replace headcount with technology. Innovate like japan and europe. that way our businesses will move up the value chain.
How to do this?
1. implement minimum wage and introduce tax relief for training and capital expenditure.
2. fund research. bloody A*star should invent more practical and useful thing to solve problems rather than glow in the dark fish.

 

[garlic]

14 years ago, after my O levels, i went to work part time selling stuffs in a gift shop. I was paid $5/hr... bus fare was 80c per trip then, and a plate of chicken rice cost $2. 14 years on, my sister in law working as sales assistant at a gift shop in AMK Hub is paid $5 per hour. Bus fare costs $1.20 per trip and a plate of chicken rice costs $3-3.50.

Im sure many here can remember the wages now and then have stayed the same, thus real wages have decreased. This is something which PAP have denied and says standard of living has increased (only for the ultra rich, yes), whereas the majority of ppl have to lower their standard of living, just to be able to pay off all the never-ending loans. Employers can keep wages depressed is only due to one factor and that is the foreign workers where their economies are 10-30 years behind ours, hence they can accept lower wages and send money back.

The govt surely knows of this, but they simply do not want to lift a finger to help the ppl... They are paid highest salaries in the world. Depressing wages and importing foreign workers these kinda strategies any Tom Dick and Harry can think of. To truly be able to say that these ministers are earning their keep, they should be able to create a business-friendly environment while keeping wages fair to the workers.

To be honest, they are highest paid, but simi lan sai SG also kena. Economic Crisis, we kena, H1N1 we kena, Rising Property Prices, we kena, Rising Healthcare costs, we kena, Rising food Prices, we Kena, Rising Transport costs,we kena, Rising Oil Prices, we Kena, inflation, we kena, 50-years-one-time flood, we kena... (Feel free to add to the list) Seems like not one sector is being taken care of properly and PAP will tell you: BOH PIAN lah.. all others also tiok.. then what's so ELITE about them?

Probably the only thing we not kena yet is earthquake and THIS, we need not pay anything for.

 

[scroobal]

Excellent piece bro.

14 years ago, after my O levels, i went to work part time selling stuffs in a gift shop. I was paid $5/hr... bus fare was 80c per trip then, and a plate of chicken rice cost $2. 14 years on, my sister in law working as sales assistant at a gift shop in AMK Hub is paid $5 per hour. Bus fare costs $1.20 per trip and a plate of chicken rice costs $3-3.50.

Probably the only thing we not kena yet is earthquake and THIS, we need not pay anything for.

 

[Highfalutin]

14 years ago, after my O levels, i went to work part time selling stuffs in a gift shop. I was paid $5/hr... bus fare was 80c per trip then, and a plate of chicken rice cost $2. 14 years on, my sister in law working as sales assistant at a gift shop in AMK Hub is paid $5 per hour. Bus fare costs $1.20 per trip and a plate of chicken rice costs $3-3.50.

But the truth is the shop can pay $3.5/hr for a foreigner and that comes with the Government's blessings.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

14 years ago, after my O levels, i went to work part time selling stuffs in a gift shop. I was paid $5/hr... bus fare was 80c per trip then, and a plate of chicken rice cost $2. 14 years on, my sister in law working as sales assistant at a gift shop in AMK Hub is paid $5 per hour. Bus fare costs $1.20 per trip and a plate of chicken rice costs $3-3.50.

Im sure many here can remember the wages now and then have stayed the same, thus real wages have decreased. This is something which PAP have denied and says standard of living has increased (only for the ultra rich, yes), whereas the majority of ppl have to lower their standard of living, just to be able to pay off all the never-ending loans. Employers can keep wages depressed is only due to one factor and that is the foreign workers where their economies are 10-30 years behind ours, hence they can accept lower wages and send money back.

The govt surely knows of this, but they simply do not want to lift a finger to help the ppl... They are paid highest salaries in the world. Depressing wages and importing foreign workers these kinda strategies any Tom Dick and Harry can think of. To truly be able to say that these ministers are earning their keep, they should be able to create a business-friendly environment while keeping wages fair to the workers.

To be honest, they are highest paid, but simi lan sai SG also kena. Economic Crisis, we kena, H1N1 we kena, Rising Property Prices, we kena, Rising Healthcare costs, we kena, Rising food Prices, we Kena, Rising Transport costs,we kena, Rising Oil Prices, we Kena, inflation, we kena, 50-years-one-time flood, we kena... (Feel free to add to the list) Seems like not one sector is being taken care of properly and PAP will tell you: BOH PIAN lah.. all others also tiok.. then what's so ELITE about them?

Probably the only thing we not kena yet is earthquake and THIS, we need not pay anything for.

Thanks for your personal experience. If you can and have the time, write to someone e.g. Temasek Review, with more and more people sharing their experience, the Gov't cannot deny that such things are not happening.

I assume your sister can do receptionist job since she can be a sales person.
Receptionist job - Salary approximately $1,200, 9-6pm, 5 or 5.5days job.
Sales person - Salary $5*8*27 =$1,080 (assuming off one day/week).

If I am your sister, I rather work as a receptionist. But, of course your sister may have some underlying reason or it may not be easy to find a receptionist job since there are so much FTs!!! See the quote below.

I think the current market rate for officer worker is at least $6.50/hour. This is FYI only, you may want to let your sister know so that she can try to find a job that pays better and meet her demands (e.g. near to your house etc).

All the best to you and your family.

Just called up a MAINBOARD listed company. A lady picked up and of cos i was speaking English. She stopped me before i can finish my sentence and said "ke yi jiang HUA YU ma?" ("can you speak in Mandarin?")

CCB...receptionist don't understand basic English? So i have to learn Mandarin to accomodate her? I can speak Mandarin, but i am truly puzzled as to why some PRC cunt who can only speak Mandarin is hired as a receptionist!

If a Caucasian called how? Abang called how? Ah neh? Eurasian?

 

[Rogue Trader]

14 years ago, after my O levels, i went to work part time selling stuffs in a gift shop. I was paid $5/hr... bus fare was 80c per trip then, and a plate of chicken rice cost $2. 14 years on, my sister in law working as sales assistant at a gift shop in AMK Hub is paid $5 per hour. Bus fare costs $1.20 per trip and a plate of chicken rice costs $3-3.50.

You are right. those years ago a singaporean student like me would take up a temp job. i can't imagine doing the same if i am a student now. it's exploitation by employer.
but there's another factor at play: rental. i think REITS is also driving cost of business up. of course, temasek will benefit again ultimately.

 

[scroobal]

That is exactly right. Rental is the biggest cost burden and Temasek is a major player with Mapletree and the likes. Even MRT has focused on rentals.

Y
but there's another factor at play: rental. i think REITS is also driving cost of business up. of course, temasek will benefit again ultimately.