Does Goh Meng Seng support cheaper housing, Minimum Wage, 1 year NS, pension, etc

[Ramseth]

any ideas why PAP never consider a professional army?

With NS and reservists, SAF is about the size of the British Army at a slight fraction of the cost. NS can be used to control citizens too, no right to migrate before service, exit permits during reservist etc.

Britain maintains a professional army because they're standing by to invade other countries when strategically necessary. No country including Russia would or could invade Britain now. Singapore maintains NS mainly to defend the government against their citizens running amok.

Singapore government is not stupid though, Singapore need serious real defences. These are found in the air force and the navy (external) and the police (internal). These are all above 90%-regular services. The army is the opposite, above 90%-conscript. The maths tell the truth and the joke.

 

[eatshitndie]

Navy does not equate to army. Similarly with the airforce. And keep in mind that the supporting services to the navy and airforce are also made up of non-regulars. Hence, even the navy and airforce are not professional.

of course, nobody says the navy equates the army. nor the air force equates the army. in sg's case, a massive army is ineffectual as a defensive force without land mass. the real fighting forces of the saf are truly the air force first and navy second. army only becomes effectual when there's an offensive campaign for land grab and occupation. but again, in sg's case, most conscripts would just be cannon fodder for the ultimate end game - either buy time for the elite to pack and run or cough up a victory so the same elite can glorify in their twisted agenda. otherwise, it's the perpetual bridesmaid that nobody cares about except those who have to serve 2 years ns and subsequent years in reserve. it's the gov way of implementing temporary slavery/servitude on a compliant male populace so they can hold you by the balls. so? who's really afraid of sg's army?

now sg's air force and navy. because they are staffed by better trained professionals, others will think twice before they mess with the hornet's nest. a squadron of armed aircraft is 100% flown by professionally trained killers, just as an attack sub is 100% manned by professionally trained killers. no armed forces in this world have half baked ns men operating killing machines on these two fighting units.

 

[eatshitndie]

Well, for the navy and air force, they are supporting roles. The army is still the main force which would do the clearing on the objectives.

For example, could the Airforce or navy accomplish any mission of capturing enemy objectives without the army? Apparently not. We do not have MARINES like US. But for the army, it is not impossible to capture any enemy objectives without Airforce or navy if your enemy is weak.

Well, even if we consider Airforce and Navy as professional force, it doesn't add altogether into one fighting force without the army. And in a sense, in the case of Airforce and Navy, yes, NSmen are playing the supporting roles instead of the main roles. They do have reserves made up of ex-regulars as well which may stand in for the main roles. If the army is to adopt the doctrines of such system, National Service will be very different.

Goh Meng Seng

unfortunately, you're digging yourself a deeper hole.... and for your sake, i won't want to embarass you further.

 

[Talking Donkey]

GMS,dun worry i will support you and your team in this coming election..your most important task is to make an attempt to bring the monster PAP under democratic direction and control..if we are not represented by you and your team,we are slaves to PAP..you better work hard from today onwards cause election is approaching fast and please choose calibre people in your team..not part time drivers or maintenance officer like some oppo party had in their previous election campaign:p

 

[eatshitndie]

It's commonsense. You can send a few thousand NSmen to any jungle to be killed by enemies or wild animals, you can't send NSmen to pilot warplanes or battleships. You'd never know where they'd turn up and bomb!

Once Lta. GMS led his reservist coy to Australia, supposedly for desert warfare training near Darwin but turned up near crocodile-infested greenpeace-protected swarmland near Perth. It was rumored that SAF paid an undisclosed compensation for the harm did to protected ecology and endangered species. They promoted GMS to Cpt. to keep his mouth shut about NSmen can't really topo, read map or compass. But when in danger, they can shoot like hell without regard to what or where is the target.

not that the mothballed battleship is still in vogue, but steaming in one must had been like taking a cruise with 14 to 16-inch shells as bunk mates. yes, nobody wants a jet that goes mach 2 with lethal shitty droppings to land in the hands of a shocked and awed ns man who is still pining for his pinoy maid.

 

[eatshitndie]

any ideas why PAP never consider a professional army?

it's too expensive and takes up valuable manpower resources for too many years. moreover, as an island nation with 2 causeways (and zero land border), it's stupid to have a full professional standing army of 9 to 12 divisions. having a professional air force and navy is a better strategy as the force multiplier is greater and both these forces have greater range. if war happens on the beaches of sg, it's basically over.

if i'm the minister mentor of batam, i would only need a few battalions of professional killer commandoes, a strong air force and a strong navy. no one would dare to attack.

 

[rodent2005]

Eat shit la you :oIo: There is such a thing as sarcasm. Our dear GMS made a factual error by suggesting we have no professional army. We have a professional army that is supported by a citizen reserve army.

Don't split hair lah, SAF regulars can form an army meh? The NSF portion of the SAF so outweighs the regulars that one could rightly say SAF is not a professional army. Professional in this sense means full time, doing it as a career. Without the NSF, SAF is as good as non-existing.

What is your definition of army?

So you mean to say even if the SAF only have one regular army clerk and the rest NSF, you say SAF got a professional army?

 

[rodent2005]

RP proposes: cheaper housing for the lower income families, paying a basic old age pension to all Singaporeans, imposing a Minimum Wage system, reduction of National Service to a year and requiring new citizens to serve National Service.

NSP and GMS leh?
Up till today, we have no idea what NSP proposes to implement.
We only know he sold his HDB flat and pocketed a big profit!

Please lah, as long as you have real competition in parliament, meaning equal representation from all parties, then you can have any changes you want, even after the polling day.

The best manifesto is from the PAP: raise GST to help the poor!

 

[Char_Azn]

Singapore maintains NS mainly to defend the government against their citizens running amok.

Actually NS is to maintain a fighting force so that the next time the north starts to threaten us with turning off the taps and they actually have a PM with the balls to actually do it, our army will migrate north.

As for making sure our citizens doesnt run amok, that logic is seriously flawed. 2 main reasons

1)NS IS made up of citizens. If citizens were running amok, how the hell U think they can control the army that is made up of citizens

2)U are assuming that the government trust NS men enough to protect them. They don't!!! That's why they import FTs for the job. What the hell did U think the Gurkha contingent is for

 

[Ramseth]

not that the mothballed battleship is still in vogue, but steaming in one must had been like taking a cruise with 14 to 16-inch shells as bunk mates. yes, nobody wants a jet that goes mach 2 with lethal shitty droppings to land in the hands of a shocked and awed ns man who is still pining for his pinoy maid.

The navy is to guard against amphibious landings. The air force is to guard against aerial bombings and make pre-emptive strikes if necessary and within range. The Japanese invasion and occupation taught Singapore (and the British) that more than half a century ago. These two defences are and must be professionally maintained, regardless of what army Cpt. GMS says or what the army taught him to say. Commonsense and historical lessons prevail regardless of how many times a propaganda is repeated.

I don't know what military objective is Cpt. Goh is talking about. Capturing and occupying foreign land? I hope he meant that as a joke.

 

[knightriderz]

Very simple, which battalion or division is solely formed by regulars? Any? None.

Goh Meng Seng

All e divisions r conscripted units or reserve units stiffened by regulars but I believe e commandos do have a couple of regular companies. And of course, e air force and navy can b considered as professional

 

[manokie]

Goh Meng Seng is a captain meh?

 

[Ramseth]

Actually NS is to maintain a fighting force so that the next time the north starts to threaten us with turning off the taps and they actually have a PM with the balls to actually do it, our army will migrate north.

The water tap and Segamat line are urban legends concocted to justify NS and pacify NSmen. SAF reach Segamat? Even Malaysian toes are laughing. Yes, SAF can reach there, but it'd be DOA. But Malaysian toes and even lips stop smiling when talking about RSAF, yes, KL could be flatten within a day regardless of what Malaysia could do to SAF or Singapore.

As for making sure our citizens doesnt run amok, that logic is seriously flawed. 2 main reasons

1)NS IS made up of citizens. If citizens were running amok, how the hell U think they can control the army that is made up of citizens

2)U are assuming that the government trust NS men enough to protect them. They don't!!! That's why they import FTs for the job. What the hell did U think the Gurkha contingent is for

If the citizens keep reporting for NS and reservists, they can't run amok unless they:

1) run away;

2) gang up in numbers big enough and rebel, very unlikely with Stockholm syndrome coming with fortified multiplier effect. Don't you notice NS NCOs and officers are bullying and terrorising NS recruits and privates, many of them in turn later get promoted to bully and terrorise the next batch?

 

[Char_Azn]

All this talk about having a privatized army is simply forgetting 1 very simple but crucial fact

Numbers!!!! We dun have the numbers to compete with any of our potential agressors in the region.

A small elite army can win short wars but if any conflict drags on and becomes a war of attrition, the one with the greater resources(including manpower) will win

Just to give you an idea of what I mean

Closest Neighbor
Malaysia's Active forces
110,000

SG Active forces
72,500

Source

Note that this number for SG, 72,000 INCLUDES NSmen serving their 2 years. Do you seriously think we will be able to recruit 72000 men to join a professional armed forces?

Even in the best case scenario, we were to turn it into a profession army and somehow manages to recruit 72,000 personal into our armed forces, we are still outnumbered 3 to 2 by MY

You need a lot of time to train an army, you don't have that kind of time if/when war really breaks out.

And Professional Army doesn't automatically equal better fighting force then a conscripted one. Best example of a world class army that's made up mainly of conscripted forces, the Israel Defence Force

 

[Ramseth]

Goh Meng Seng is a captain meh?

You think only PAP got officers? Opposition also got, e.g.:

NSP - Captain Goh Meng Seng, Inspector Chris Neo

SDP - Assistant Superintendent Dr. Chee Soon Juan

WP - Inspector Sylvia Lim

 

[manokie]

Don't talk about War ok!

One missile into CDB and the Singapore economy will tank.

Where is the missile defense system????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Char_Azn]

The water tap and Segamat line are urban legends concocted to justify NS and pacify NSmen. SAF reach Segamat? Even Malaysian toes are laughing. Yes, SAF can reach there, but it'd be DOA. But Malaysian toes and even lips stop smiling when talking about RSAF, yes, KL could be flatten within a day regardless of what Malaysia could do to SAF or Singapore.

If U forgot your history so soon, most of the time they threaten to turn off our taps, its usually reported in the MY newspapers first. And they did it many times, not just once. U seriously think MY media re in cahoots with PAP to pacify us?

Seems like the 2nd main question here is are NS men better then the Malaysian Army? Maybe not, its precisely because of this that we need more men and better equipment then MY. FYI
1)MY Active forces
110K
SG Active forces
70K

MY reservist unit
100K
SG reservist units
300K

SG has more armored fighting vehicles then MY

SG have more fighter jets then MY and Indon combined

If the citizens keep reporting for NS and reservists, they can't run amok unless they:

1) run away;

2) gang up in numbers big enough and rebel, very unlikely with Stockholm syndrome coming with fortified multiplier effect. Don't you notice NS NCOs and officers are bullying and terrorising NS recruits and privates, many of them in turn later get promoted to bully and terrorise the next batch?

1)I don't know what kinda logic that is but would U listen to your commander if they ask U to shoot civis to protect PAP? I wouldn't I'll probably shoot him first

2)Your 2nd point contradicts your first point but anyway NS NCOs are also NS men, they also happen to be the same civilians you are talking about. Here's what the Gurkhas are really for

Their presence as a neutral force was important because local police officers were often perceived to be (or were even expected to be) biased towards their own ethnic groups when handling racial disturbances, further fueling discontent and violence[citation needed]. Officers who attempt to carry out their duties impartially and in full accordance with the law also face social backlash from their own ethnic communities, a difficult situation which can even lead to physical harm to individual officers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha_Contingent

Translation: Unit is created to make locals obey their law

I didn't even have to make it up, it's pretty official.

 

[manokie]

You think only PAP got officers? Opposition also got, e.g.:

NSP - Captain Goh Meng Seng

How come this information is not readily available on NSP website or his blog?
How do we know it's a real thing if it comes out of Ramseth's posts instead of from official sources? Are you his press secretary? If so, you have to also identify yourself!

 

[Ramseth]

Don't talk about War ok!

One missile into CDB and the Singapore economy will tank.

Where is the missile defense system????????????????????????????????????????

Singapore's main anti-air missile defence systems are the landbased British Rapier and frigate-borne Israeli Barak. As for serious precision anti-missile defence missile system, Singapore has none. The US would happily sell the Patriot to Singapore but Singapore said thanks, but no thanks. Too expensive, I guess. And unlike Israel (who bought (or was sponsored) Patriot) Singapore is surrounded by Malaysia and Indonesia only, not many good missiles from there anyway to warrant such expenses.

 

[manokie]

Singapore's main anti-air missile defence systems are the landbased British Rapier and frigate-borne Israeli Barak. As for serious precision anti-missile defence missile system, Singapore has none. The US would happily sell the Patriot to Singapore but Singapore said thanks but no thanks. Too expensive I guess. And unlike Israel (who bought (or was sponsored) Patriot) Singapore is surrounded by Malaysia and Indonesia only, not many good missiles there anymore to warrant such expenses.

What expensive? Our $300 Billion Economy is at risk! You can pay $3 million to Prataman yearly, what is $1 billion to guard against all missile launched at us?

Can 200,000 Sinkie Infantry troops defend against ONE missile?

We have NO defense against missiles.

Those systems you mentioned are surface-to-air missile systems.
They don't defend against missiles. They defend against aircraft!


In conclusion, the NS system is just a wayang! We are totally defenseless against missiles from Malaysia or even China and yet there is no real action taken to correct this!