Do you know mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

[The_Hypocrite]

U dont know Cantonese say so lah,,,u cannot appreciate it than its yr problem. And u dont know cantonese..so how u know its crude???,,I know hokkein, and i know its crude...

i just have to listen to Cantonese to realize that the dialect indeed sound rough and ugly. Cantonese doesn't seem to flow off the tongue as elegantly as say, Beijing dialect.....don't know why but people seem to speak very high pitched Cantonese, making it quite unpleasant to the ears......strange, Cantonese has a set of low pitch tones.....i can't appreciate the Cantonese dialect......

 

[watchman8]

Of all the Chinese speaking regions, I most prefer the Taipei mandarin. It's clean, clear and their manner of speech is softer, a little closer to how Thais speak.

My least preferred are the Cantonese and hokkien speakers. It seem to be in their sub cultures to be very aggressive and impatient, which is reflected in their manner of conversation. Perhaps it has to do with very limited resources in the canton region relative to population size, hence the people become more aggressive for survival sake. This is especially so in the fast pace and congested hk.

As singapore population density gets nearer to that of hk, I sense the shift in people's conversational tone over the years.

 

[Sideswipe]

U dont know Cantonese say so lah,,,u cannot appreciate it than its yr problem. And u dont know cantonese..so how u know its crude???,,I know hokkein, and i know its crude...

why are you so defensive of Cantonese ? this is a fact that both Cantonese and Hokkien are not the nicest sounding Chinese dialects. if you insist that hokkien is crude, i will not disagree with your opinions.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

In Oz land now,,the people who are most rude, talk loudly, cut queues etc are the Ah Tiongs...damn low class,,even the HK people here say they embarrass the black heads

Of all the Chinese speaking regions, I most prefer the Taipei mandarin. It's clean, clear and their manner of speech is softer, a little closer to how Thais speak.

My least preferred are the Cantonese and hokkien speakers. It seem to be in their sub cultures to be very aggressive and impatient, which is reflected in their manner of conversation. Perhaps it has to do with very limited resources in the canton region relative to population size, hence the people become more aggressive for survival sake. This is especially so in the fast pace and congested hk.

As singapore population density gets nearer to that of hk, I sense the shift in people's conversational tone over the years.

 

[Orion]

Hi Orion,,,I am just trying to differentiate between the hokkein dialect and Cantonese language. But the Hokkein kia in this forum think that hokkein is the bestest language on the planet and superior to Cantonese. Being a half breed,,,I know better than these Hokkein only kias...but just my rants...

Yo. Most of us are half-breeds too, that is why we are all now in Singapore. Hokkien and Cantonese is Min Yue and is closely related.

Some forummers trying to make Hokkien the official langgage of the Han Chinese or is under the great misunderstanding.

If they want to trace the Chinese Language, they have to know who Shen Yue is. He is the guy that starts the Han Chinese language revolution 1500-1600 years ago in a place which we called Nanjing, Jiangsu. Proper Han Chinese language follows his 四聲八病 rules.

Have they ever spoken to people that uses the Zhejiang dialect? It sounds almost like Mandarin but the speed of the language is hyper fast, like singing.

The language that is closest to imperial chinese is Nanjing dialect or Central Chinese dialects.


There is no place for Min Yue language as a imperial language and is isn't recognized as such except for Southern Tang, a Min Yue Kingdom pior to the Song Dynasty.

 

[Orion]

Of all the Chinese speaking regions, I most prefer the Taipei mandarin. It's clean, clear and their manner of speech is softer, a little closer to how Thais speak.

My least preferred are the Cantonese and hokkien speakers. It seem to be in their sub cultures to be very aggressive and impatient, which is reflected in their manner of conversation. Perhaps it has to do with very limited resources in the canton region relative to population size, hence the people become more aggressive for survival sake. This is especially so in the fast pace and congested hk.

As singapore population density gets nearer to that of hk, I sense the shift in people's conversational tone over the years.

The Taiwanese group is harder to interprete. Majority are Teochows (1/3), Fujian (1/3) and rest are native Taiwanese and other chinese dialect groups from all over China due to war.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

U cant disagree anyway cos Hokkein is crude, and that is a fact. And I dont agree Cantonese is crude,,I just damn buay song u drag Cantonese down to the level of Hokkein,,look at this hokkein class,,the song they sing sound like scolding people,,,

[video=youtube;kVbgKW-WdCk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVbgKW-WdCk[/video]

why are you so defensive of Cantonese ? this is a fact that both Cantonese and Hokkien are not the nicest sounding Chinese dialects. if you insist that hokkien is crude, i will not disagree with your opinions.

 

[watchman8]

The Taiwanese group is harder to interprete. Majority are Teochows (1/3), Fujian (1/3) and rest are native Taiwanese and other chinese dialect groups from all over China due to war.

That's why I narrow it to Taipei mandarin. This group has a large cohort of KMT people, largely from nanjing. The culture is more refined, as reflected in their speech. Unfortunately the southern Taiwanese took over in late 90s and their spoken mandarin deteriorated.

 

[watchman8]

Yo. Most of us are half-breeds too, that is why we are all now in Singapore. Hokkien and Cantonese is Min Yue and is closely related.

Some forummers trying to make Hokkien the official langgage of the Han Chinese or is under the great misunderstanding.

If they want to trace the Chinese Language, they have to know who Shen Yue is. He is the guy that starts the Han Chinese language revolution 1500-1600 years ago in a place which we called Nanjing, Jiangsu. Proper Han Chinese language follows his 四聲八病 rules.

Have they ever spoken to people that uses the Zhejiang dialect? It sounds almost like Mandarin but the speed of the language is hyper fast, like singing.

The language that is closest to imperial chinese is Nanjing dialect or Central Chinese dialects.


There is no place for Min Yue language as a imperial language and is isn't recognized as such except for Southern Tang, a Min Yue Kingdom pior to the Song Dynasty.

Can't blame them. Most of sinkie ancestors are poor and poorly educated, and they only know their own village before coming to singapore. Hence to them, china is their village as they have probably never been outside of their province or even county. Unfortunately such narrow views are passed down as facts, hence some people think that their dialect is superior.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

If you are saying Cantonese is not a Chinese language, how the Cantonese written form is in the Chinese alphabet? Ok lor,,I half breed am not a chinese means all of the singaporean chinese are not chinese,,,than we can call ourselves Southerners,,which is a damn good thing as we can differentiate ourselves from the Ah Tiongs,,,which is fine by me,,,I cant stand the Northern Chinese as much as the Hokkeins and Hakkas anyway,,,but better the devil i know which is the hokkeins and hakkas than the Northern Ah Tiongs

Yo. Most of us are half-breeds too, that is why we are all now in Singapore. Hokkien and Cantonese is Min Yue and is closely related.

Some forummers trying to make Hokkien the official langgage of the Han Chinese or is under the great misunderstanding.

If they want to trace the Chinese Language, they have to know who Shen Yue is. He is the guy that starts the Han Chinese language revolution 1500-1600 years ago in a place which we called Nanjing, Jiangsu. Proper Han Chinese language follows his 四聲八病 rules.

Have they ever spoken to people that uses the Zhejiang dialect? It sounds almost like Mandarin but the speed of the language is hyper fast, like singing.

The language that is closest to imperial chinese is Nanjing dialect or Central Chinese dialects.


There is no place for Min Yue language as a imperial language and is isn't recognized as such except for Southern Tang, a Min Yue Kingdom pior to the Song Dynasty.

 

[watchman8]

If you are saying Cantonese is not a Chinese language, how the Cantonese written form is in the Chinese alphabet? Ok lor,,I half breed am not a chinese means all of the singaporean chinese are not chinese,,,than we can call ourselves Southerners,,which is a damn good thing as we can differentiate ourselves from the Ah Tiongs,,,which is fine by me,,,I cant stand the Northern Chinese as much as the Hokkeins and Hakkas anyway,,,but better the devil i know which is the hokkeins and hakkas than the Northern Ah Tiongs

take a long trip to visit china, Taiwan and hk. Go to the inner cities and immerse yourself. Understand the broad array of different Chinese cultures. Don't just generalize based on your limited experience.

 

[Sideswipe]

Yo. Most of us are half-breeds too, that is why we are all now in Singapore. Hokkien and Cantonese is Min Yue and is closely related.

Some forummers trying to make Hokkien the official langgage of the Han Chinese or is under the great misunderstanding.

If they want to trace the Chinese Language, they have to know who Shen Yue is. He is the guy that starts the Han Chinese language revolution 1500-1600 years ago in a place which we called Nanjing, Jiangsu. Proper Han Chinese language follows his 四聲八病 rules.

Have they ever spoken to people that uses the Zhejiang dialect? It sounds almost like Mandarin but the speed of the language is hyper fast, like singing.
The language that is closest to imperial chinese is Nanjing dialect or Central Chinese dialects.

There is no place for Min Yue language as a imperial language and is isn't recognized as such except for Southern Tang, a Min Yue Kingdom pior to the Song Dynasty.

who is trying to make Hokkien the official language of the Han Chinese ?

read that Hokkien is the closest dialect to the Han dynasty official language. true or not ?

are you talking about the Nanjing Wu dialect ? the Beijing Mandarin today was developed on the basics of Yuan dynasty Beijing dialect, merged with Ming dynasty Yongle emperor Nanjing Wu dialect with further influence from the Manchurian language during Qing times.

 

[watchman8]

who is trying to make Hokkien the official language of the Han Chinese ?

read that Hokkien is the closest dialect to the Han dynasty official language. true or not ?

are you talking about the Nanjing Wu dialect ? the Beijing Mandarin today was developed on the basics of Yuan dynasty Beijing dialect, merged with Ming dynasty Yongle emperor Nanjing Wu dialect with further influence from the Manchurian language during Qing times.

I don't think anyone can know for sure. Even the Chinese scholars have differing views on how the language evolve. Don't just believe anything you read on the Internet, even if it is Wikipedia.

 

[Orion]

If you are saying Cantonese is not a Chinese language, how the Cantonese written form is in the Chinese alphabet? Ok lor,,I half breed am not a chinese means all of the singaporean chinese are not chinese,,,than we can call ourselves Southerners,,which is a damn good thing as we can differentiate ourselves from the Ah Tiongs,,,which is fine by me,,,I cant stand the Northern Chinese as much as the Hokkeins and Hakkas anyway,,,but better the devil i know which is the hokkeins and hakkas than the Northern Ah Tiongs

Cantonese is a Chinese Language but is considered a Min Yue Language. It is just not considered a Han Chinese Language. Hence that is why it is call the Min Yue Language.

For your information, all dialects can use the standardized written form but the way it read out, may be very different depending on locations.

 

[Sideswipe]

U cant disagree anyway cos Hokkein is crude, and that is a fact. And I dont agree Cantonese is crude,,I just damn buay song u drag Cantonese down to the level of Hokkein,,look at this hokkein class,,the song they sing sound like scolding people,,,

you don't accept that Cantonese is crude. never mind. we agree to disagree...



some people said that Hokkien isn't that bad sounding. Hokkien is just very nasal sounding and choppy. opinions, anyone ?

 

[Orion]

U cant disagree anyway cos Hokkein is crude, and that is a fact. And I dont agree Cantonese is crude,,I just damn buay song u drag Cantonese down to the level of Hokkein,,look at this hokkein class,,the song they sing sound like scolding people,,,

I don't agree too. And I also agree that Sideswipe is telling a story.

I mean before 1995, when even satellite disks are banned, all the different dialect groups learn Cantonese even if they are not Cantonese, just to watch Cantonese tv series and movies. No one ever remark that Cantonese is crude. I have never heard of a Hokkien saying so.

Singapore have very few Cantonese and most Singapore Chinese don't even converse in Cantonese except the Cantonese themselves/or the Malaysian Chinese. How is it possible to find Cantonese crude when majority don't even hear it except, streaming the wrong version?

Btw, our Hokkien language has alot of add on malay words.

 

[Froggy]

you don't accept that Cantonese is crude. never mind. we agree to disagree...



some people said that Hokkien isn't that bad sounding. Hokkien is just very nasal sounding and choppy. opinions, anyone ?

I guess every language has its own crudeness but most importnt is how it's used. For example this phrase is an absolutely crude Cantonese phrase 死仆街咸家鏟生子没屎弗 but when use on the right target like what i always do using it to describe the PAP, it's music to many ears.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Tat is y sun yet sen is an asshole n hk n macau ppl dont like him. However i feel tat canto could not replace mandarin( though i would like it) as there are too many mandarin speakers in china. N canto is not an easy language to master compared to mandarin. To teach the whole china to speak it would have been impossible. However if i was sun. I would compromised and placed canto as a national language along with mandarin. N it b used w mandarin in the southern provinces. I have been watching Tvb period dramas n the spoken cantonese is very traditional. Mandarin can never replicate it. The sounds n tones is much better in canto. I also think that canto will be extinct due to being overwhelmed by northerners n the cantonese themselves considering themselves as chinese n not cantonese. Hence the cantonese identity is not strong enough to demand independenc. Just my rants

what about other chinese dialects?

 

[yellowarse]

i actually think Cantonese sound very rough and ugly, worse than Hokkien... anyway many Cantonese words sound quite similar to Beijing dialect... so you should like Beijing dialect meh...

On the contrary, because Cantonese has 9 tones and still retains the 入声 (terminal stop consonants like p, k, t), Tang poetry recited in Cantonese is not only more euphonious than Mandarin, but also maintains the rhyming elements which are lost in Mandarin. Cantonese and Minnan are the two dialects which are linguistically and phonetically closes to Middle Chinese.

 

[watchman8]

On the contrary, because Cantonese has 9 tones and still retains the 入声 (terminal stop consonants like p, k, t), Tang poetry recited in Cantonese is not only more euphonious than Mandarin, but also maintains the rhyming elements which are lost in Mandarin. Cantonese and Minnan are the two dialects which are linguistically and phonetically closes to Middle Chinese.

Do you have the conclusive academic study to this claim?

Off hand, I highly doubt this claim because the written yue language has much fewer resemblance to Tang poems, as compared to today's mandarin written form.

Nowadays internet has many fake claims, and people blindly copy and paste until falsehoods are taken as truths. So better to double check the source.