Crumbling of Singapore?

[TracyTan866]

Politics brother Politics.. PAP cant do that yet, Cos there are only 6 opposition sitting there without any powers

good point

 

[Leongsam]

Ah Leong im pretty sad and surprised when i took a look in this Thread, I thought you were Anarchy all the way bro~~~ You are getting old.

Geez are you a moron or what. I'm simply debating the issue. Surely it's blatantly obvious???

 

[TracyTan866]

Ah Leong im pretty sad and surprised when i took a look in this Thread, I thought you were Anarchy all the way bro~~~ You are getting old.

Read LeongSam's postings and you know that he is stubborn and insistent..he has one track mind and cant see beyond what he believes and cant accept differing opinions...are these signs of an old and tired man?

 

[psy83]

ok, in that case rising standards of living coupled with rising costs of living. happy?

Doesnt make sense bro... If that is the case the UN-balance is still there. 2 apples = 4 dollars .. If it rises together its 4 apples for 8 dollars. So its still the same shit.

Housing has to go down further but the problem is housing has already been mismanaged/made into profits that bringing it down now will automatically make hundreds of thousands of people lose money automatically and that wont be good for Politicians but the next generation of home buyers will be deeper in the shitter then those who bought it a decade ago(Taking note that wages has been stagnant for more then a decade but price of housing/necessities has shot up..
That is why this new generation/Gen Y will have it harder then their parents.

 

[psy83]

Geez are you a moron or what. I'm simply debating the issue. Surely it's blatantly obvious???

You seem to be pretty much a PAP defender.

 

[TracyTan866]

Geez are you a moron or what. I'm simply debating the issue. Surely it's blatantly obvious???

You think you are debating. But debating you are not.

What has your point abt NZ govt got to do with pap's performance and crumbling of SG due to bad governance. You have conveniently side stepped my point abt why shd there be a need for MRT in Christchurch which was your key point abt bad NZ governance. Have you thought that the NZ govt finds no reason to have MRT in NZ that's why they didnt build it?

Do forumners here think that you are stating facts and your points are valid? or are your "facts" just your bias opinions?

 

[Leongsam]

folks at the lower rungs have a lot to catch up. the rich poor divide is fast becoming a lil overbearing.

It's interesting that you bring this issue up considering the fact that it has been the talking point in NZ over the past couple of weeks.

The New Zealanders are echoing exactly the same sentiment regarding how poorly the govt has performed in looking after the needy and this is in a country with generous welfare benefits by any standard.

At the end of the day, humans simply love blaming external factors for their own failures and governments are invariably the easiest target.

NZ rich-poor gap widens faster than rest of world

By Simon Collins

5:30 AM Wednesday Dec 7, 2011

Photo / Janna Dixon
The gap between rich and poor has widened further in New Zealand - and in Sweden - than in any other developed countries in the past 25 years.

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development says the income gap widened in 17 out of 22 developed countries between the mid-1980s and the late 2000s, and has widened further in most countries during the past three years of recession.

However, in New Zealand the gap widened mainly between about 1988 and 1996 and has since stabilised at slightly above the OECD average.

In contrast, the gap has widened almost continuously in Sweden over the past 25 years, but only from the smallest gap in 1985 to the fourth-smallest in 2008.

The landmark OECD report, published yesterday, warns that growing inequality could lead to social resentment, political instability and a protectionist backlash against free trade. "Inequality of opportunity will inevitably impact economic performance," it says.

It calls for "three pillars" of actions to close the gap - investing more in education and training, helping all groups into jobs, and closing tax loopholes to make the rich pay a fairer share of taxes.

"There is nothing inevitable about high and growing inequalities," said OECD secretary-general Angel Gurria.
"This study dispels the assumption that the benefits of economic growth will automatically trickle down to the disadvantaged."

Surprisingly, the report finds that globalisation - increased international trade and investment - was not a major driver of inequality. For example, New Zealand was one of only two countries where exports were actually static or fell slightly as a share of the total economy from 1985 to 2007, yet it had one of the highest increases in income inequality.

Instead, the two biggest drivers of rising inequality across the OECD were technological change and deregulation of labour and product markets, which all tended to push up the incomes of skilled people and push down incomes for the unskilled. Many unskilled jobs moved overseas to low-wage countries.

At the very top income levels, there has been growing use of performance-related pay - "partly in an attempt to attract internationally mobile workers". Rising educational qualifications were the main offsetting force towards greater equality, lifting more people into skilled, highly paid jobs.

The result was "a race between education and technology" which technology, so far, has been winning.
The income gap was also widened further by tax and benefit changes which have become less redistributive in most countries since the 1990s. Income taxes on the rich have been lowered, and welfare benefits for the poor have been cut.

A growing proportion of single-adult households, with and without children, has also increased inequality because single adults can't share living costs.

The report calls for both better job training for unskilled workers and more access to formal education.

By Simon Collins

Copyright ©2011, APN Holdings NZ Limited

 

[TracyTan866]

It's interesting that you bring this point up considering the fact that it has been the talking point in NZ over the past couple of weeks.

The New Zealanders are echoing exactly the same sentiment regarding how poorly the govt has performed in looking after the needy.

Copyright ©2011, APN Holdings NZ Limited

Let them echo their sentiments abt NZ...what have their sentiments got to do with Singapore?

 

[TracyTan866]

Doesnt make sense bro... If that is the case the UN-balance is still there. 2 apples = 4 dollars .. If it rises together its 4 apples for 8 dollars. So its still the same shit.

Housing has to go down further but the problem is housing has already been mismanaged/made into profits that bringing it down now will automatically make hundreds of thousands of people lose money automatically and that wont be good for Politicians but the next generation of home buyers will be deeper in the shitter then those who bought it a decade ago(Taking note that wages has been stagnant for more then a decade but price of housing/necessities has shot up..
That is why this new generation/Gen Y will have it harder then their parents.

he doesnt know the difference between standard of living and cost of living.

 

[Leongsam]

What has your point abt NZ govt got to do with pap's performance and crumbling of SG due to bad governance. You have conveniently side stepped my point abt why shd there be a need for MRT in Christchurch which was your key point abt bad NZ governance. Have you thought that the NZ govt finds no reason to have MRT in NZ that's why they didnt build it?

Mass Rapid Transit has never been an issue in Christchurch. The population of Christchurch was 300,000 before the earthquake. Now it's even less. An MRT system there would go broke in less than 6 months.

A Mass Rapid Transit system is required in Auckland. It's the largest city with the largest population. It has been in the planning for more than 3 decades but nothing has ever happened.

 

[psy83]

But Majority of sinkies are educated and have at least Vocational/technical training but the problem is wages have been stagnant since 1990 cos Min-wage is non existent and the government has allowed corporations/towkays to exploit the workers, plus the influx of foreigners has further drove wages down so now you have a very large no. of middle income families starting to struggle, Sg has the largest income gap between all the 1st world/developed countries.

 

[Leongsam]

Let them echo their sentiments abt NZ...what have their sentiments got to do with Singapore?

It boils down to what you said in this post. http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?106287-Crumbling-of-Singapore&p=907074#post907074

I sympathise with you for feeling so bitter about the performance of your govt. However, I'm also pointing out that if you grew up in NZ, you'd be just as disappointed with the NZ system... perhaps more so.

Singapore isn't as bad as you think it is. My suggestion is for you to spend a period of time in one of the countries you admire. Come back in a couple of years and let's see whether you sing the same tune.

 

[TracyTan866]

You seem to be pretty much a PAP defender.

He is either unquestionably bias or ignorant of present SG realities. Either way it reveals alot abt LeongSam. He is very ordinary, not the person he tries to portray himself to be

 

[psy83]

Mass Rapid Transit has never been an issue in Christchurch. The population of Christchurch was 300,000 before the earthquake. Now it's even less. An MRT system there would go broke in less than 6 months.

A Mass Rapid Transit system is required in Auckland. It's the largest city with the largest population. It has been in the planning for more than 3 decades but nothing has ever happened.

Whats the reason they are giving for the delays?

 

[TracyTan866]

Mass Rapid Transit has never been an issue in Christchurch. The population of Christchurch was 300,000 before the earthquake. Now it's even less. An MRT system there would go broke in less than 6 months.

A Mass Rapid Transit system is required in Auckland. It's the largest city with the largest population. It has been in the planning for more than 3 decades but nothing has ever happened.

Have you seen the latest cost/benefit analysis?

 

[TracyTan866]

But Majority of sinkies are educated and have at least Vocational/technical training but the problem is wages have been stagnant since 1990 cos Min-wage is non existent and the government has allowed corporations/towkays to exploit the workers, plus the influx of foreigners has further drove wages down so now you have a very large no. of middle income families starting to struggle, Sg has the largest income gap between all the 1st world/developed countries.

True...this will cause many social problems in future...How can a responsible govt allow this to happen to its citizens?

 

[TracyTan866]

Singapore isn't as bad as you think it is. My suggestion is for you to spend a period of time in one of the countries you admire. Come back in a couple of years and let's see whether you sing the same tune.

What do you know abt me to advise me so? you dont believe me when I said that I have travelled enough to know what I am saying?

You sound arrogant to think that you know more abt me than I know myself..

You insist that I dont know what I am talking abt and only you know what you are talking abt.

 

[TracyTan866]

Singapore isn't as bad as you think it is. My suggestion is for you to spend a period of time in one of the countries you admire. Come back in a couple of years and let's see whether you sing the same tune.

Do you know which countries I have been to and how long I have stayed there?

Do you think you have travelled more and seen more countries than me? These must be your assumptions when you dished out your advice to me..Interestingly arrogant!

 

[psy83]

I guess that ah leong is pointing out about the efficiency of the pap and its institution about getting the job done without taking decades to decide to start a project.
We defiantly got to give them that and credits at certain avenues but at the moment they seem to be crumbling and are holding on to certain policies that are simply not working and certain areas have been totally mismanaged etc. Housing

 

[Leongsam]

You seem to be pretty much a PAP defender.

I hate the PAP to the very core. Their methods ruined the lives of many of my close friends and relatives. If I have a chance to spit on the graves of any of the members of that evil organisation, I'd do it without hesitation.

All I'm doing in this thread is debating the motion "Singapore is crumbling". The thread starter, as the proposition, gave a list of reasons why it is. I, as the opposition, am giving my reasons why the proposition is wrong.

My personal beliefs have nothing to do with the exchange. There's no point having a thread where everyone agrees. Someone has got to take the opposing viewpoint to make the thread lively.

Don't they hold debates in school anymore???? Nobody seems to be familiar with the concept at all.