Crumbling of Singapore?

[TracyTan866]

We won't slide too far if there are a few good men and women who will step forward and offer themselves for public service and not mainly for the material benefits. Doesn't matter which party or what background.

My question is: Where are these good men and women and do they even exist?

PS: I asked this question in delphi before.

My view is that the pap is too self serving...there is no good altruistic people in the pap now

 

[freedalas]

You have not answered my question. Why can't all family members in Singapore chip in to earn money?

My detachment is a plus because it allows me to view the situation objectively.

Hi Mr Leongsam. Sorry for not responding earlier. Had a busy night and day doing our volunteering and social work. And while caring for them, I suddenly felt I ought to mention at this thread and especially for your education to clear a misconception about the left-behind segment of our society. Many of those who argued for a totally hands off approach by the Govt to help these people pictured them as people with a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other, lazing on the crouch watching a ball game with a bowl of chips in front of them with beer cans, cigarettes butts all over the floor. This is the furthest from the truth. These people are so poor that they dare not even switch on the lights to avoid electricity bills, some have children who need to go down to the void decks to study as there is light there. Some would have their electricity already cut off. So what TV is there to watch. They don't sit down as some forummers think they do, instead whenever u visit them, they will tell u how each member of the family is trying to look for a job, if they were successful or not, or how they can bring work home to be paid on a piece-meal basis. Unfortunately these are usually only temp jobs and the circle starts all over again too often. I hope Leongsam you would believe me what I just wrote, not for the purpose of me winning a debate over you, but that truly, unless you are involved with this disadvantaged group of people, you will not know how hard they tried and are trying. It's easy to say that being detached allows one to view the situation objectively. It doesn't apply here because we are not arguing about political idealogies, but about actual people, actual situation, actual realities.

 

[TracyTan866]

Hi Mr Leongsam. Sorry for not responding earlier. Had a busy night and day doing our volunteering and social work. And while caring for them, I suddenly felt I ought to mention at this thread and especially for your education to clear a misconception about the left-behind segment of our society. Many of those who argued for a totally hands off approach by the Govt to help these people pictured them as people with a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other, lazing on the crouch watching a ball game with a bowl of chips in front of them with beer cans, cigarettes butts all over the floor. This is the furthest from the truth. These people are so poor that they dare not even switch on the lights to avoid electricity bills, some have children who need to go down to the void decks to study as there is light there. Some would have their electricity already cut off. So what TV is there to watch. They don't sit down as some forummers think they do, instead whenever u visit them, they will tell u how each member of the family is trying to look for a job, if they were successful or not, or how they can bring work home to be paid on a piece-meal basis. Unfortunately these are usually only temp jobs and the circle starts all over again too often. I hope Leongsam you would believe me what I just wrote, not for the purpose of me winning a debate over you, but that truly, unless you are involved with this disadvantaged group of people, you will not know how hard they tried and are trying. It's easy to say that being detached allows one to view the situation objectively. It doesn't apply here because we are not arguing about political idealogies, but about actual people, actual situation, actual realities.

Thank you for speaking up for those who are left behind..Many of these are normal people...sons, daughters of Singaporeans, people like us, who due to unfortunate circumstances such as sickness, etc, cant fend for themselves..we need to show compassion and help them live a dignified life

 

[Unrepented]

Gib you grade A1

May I try to answer this?

inequality = everyone not the same = not a problem at all becos every country/the world is like that.

inequitable = people getting more or less than what they deserve = SG's serious problem.

 

[Leongsam]

It doesn't apply here because we are not arguing about political idealogies, but about actual people, actual situation, actual realities.

My heart goes out to such people. I feel really sorry for them. However, if official policies are put in place so that all such cases are rewarded with free electricity, a job on a platter or a handout, where is the incentive to crawl out of the hole they're in?

What about the neighbours of these poor souls who work very hard and earn just enough to pay their electricity bills and feed their children. How will they feel when they find that just next door, a family is enjoying the same standard of living without having to work at all because they applied for assistance and are now getting free money.

You must not allow your emotions to cloud your better judgement. Feeling sorry for a fellow human is part of what we are. Formalising a govt policy so that you don't have to feel sorry for them at your next visit is another matter altogether.

 

[freedalas]

Thank you for speaking up for those who are left behind..Many of these are normal people...sons, daughters of Singaporeans, people like us, who due to unfortunate circumstances such as sickness, etc, cant fend for themselves..we need to show compassion and help them live a dignified life

That's true Tracy. Many of them are ordinary folks just like us, who wish to work hard, earn decently to provide for their families and a well-earned rest at the end of the day. Unfortunately, they had fallen on bad times eg being retrenched, medically ill but are unable to find work again due to the various PAP policies. One trend I observed is the longer you stay unemployed the harder it is to find work. So some are finding it extremely difficult to break out again. But whatever it is, these people ought not to have their dignities taken away which is what the PAP is doing, aided by Leongsam and other forummers criticisms sitting comfortably on an armchair.

 

[kukubird58]

Re: He Planned All These

Long time no sound no picture bro? Hope all's well with you.

hahaha.....life has becum miserable....
badly hit by the stock market.....every stock I touch......long or short......went against me
must blame papee for having a stock market.

 

[Unrepented]

Re: He Planned All These

You didn't work hard enough to join the boys' club.........what to do

hahaha.....life has becum miserable....
badly hit by the stock market.....every stock I touch......long or short......went against me
must blame papee for having a stock market.

 

[kukubird58]

Re: He Planned All These

hahaha...governance is an art and not an exact science.....you have to make trade offs and judgement calls.....and most time pray hard that the policies are for for the good of majority.....
we talk so much about inequalities; etc.....but the most contented people who election after election voted for papee were actually the lower income groups staying in the heartland.
they will kpkb in kopitiams and markets but that is the the way of letting off steam.....overall they still prefer or are comfortable with status quo.
you can call them all kind of names (ignorant, ball-less, etc) but isn't that what democracy is all about; the majority wins.......
the challenge is to reach out to these groups or wait till they passed on.....

 

[freedalas]

My heart goes out to such people. I feel really sorry for them. However, if official policies are put in place so that all such cases are rewarded with free electricity, a job on a platter or a handout, where is the incentive to crawl out of the hole they're in?

What about the neighbours of these poor souls who work very hard and earn just enough to pay their electricity bills and feed their children. How will they feel when they find that just next door, a family is enjoying the same standard of living without having to work at all because they applied for assistance and are now getting free money.




You must not allow your emotions to cloud your better judgement. Feeling sorry for a fellow human is part of what we are. Formalising a govt policy so that you don't have to feel sorry for them at your next visit is another matter altogether.

It's nice to know that you are sympathetic towards our last, lost and the least. However, I am not sure if it's not too a convenient excuse for the Govt not to do anything to help these people just because they will encounter difficulties in ensuring equitable treatment. Many of the present PAP policies already do not result in equitable treatment. LKY has boast of an A Team in the Cabinet that only PAP could form. With that boast, surely the A Team can work out something that could see how help in varying extent can be given to those with varying degrees of needs. There is no need for a blanket approach.

 

[kukubird58]

Re: He Planned All These

You didn't work hard enough to join the boys' club.........what to do

hahaha.....i am prepared for hard work, care to open the doors for me to join the boys' club......i can be the cleaner if needed.

 

[TracyTan866]

That's true Tracy. Many of them are ordinary folks just like us, who wish to work hard, earn decently to provide for their families and a well-earned rest at the end of the day. Unfortunately, they had fallen on bad times eg being retrenched, medically ill but are unable to find work again due to the various PAP policies. .

Yes, most are such people and not the free loaders the pap wants to portray them.

Those who condemned the poor, aged and sick as freeloaders need to see these people for themselves and they will realise how foolish they had been to taint and mock the poor, aged and sick

 

[TracyTan866]

One trend I observed is the longer you stay unemployed the harder it is to find work. So some are finding it extremely difficult to break out again. But whatever it is, these people ought not to have their dignities taken away which is what the PAP is doing, aided by Leongsam and other forummers criticisms sitting comfortably on an armchair.

True...it is easy to sit in the armchair, use head reasoning, and thrown stones at the disadvantaged. They need to go walk the ground

 

[TracyTan866]

Re: He Planned All These

hahaha.....life has becum miserable....
badly hit by the stock market.....every stock I touch......long or short......went against me
must blame papee for having a stock market.

if you think it is bad, you have not seen the worst yet...

 

[TracyTan866]

Re: He Planned All These

hahaha...governance is an art and not an exact science.....you have to make trade offs and judgement calls.....and most time pray hard that the policies are for for the good of majority.....
we talk so much about inequalities; etc.....but the most contented people who election after election voted for papee were actually the lower income groups staying in the heartland.
they will kpkb in kopitiams and markets but that is the the way of letting off steam.....overall they still prefer or are comfortable with status quo.
you can call them all kind of names (ignorant, ball-less, etc) but isn't that what democracy is all about; the majority wins.......
the challenge is to reach out to these groups or wait till they passed on.....

it takes time to counter pap's 50yrs of propaganda. unlike you, i dont blame the 60%. i am thankful that 40% have seen the light. it just means that we have to work harder the next few years

 

[TracyTan866]

It's nice to know that you are sympathetic towards our last, lost and the least. However, I am not sure if it's not too a convenient excuse for the Govt not to do anything to help these people just because they will encounter difficulties in ensuring equitable treatment. Many of the present PAP policies already do not result in equitable treatment. LKY has boast of an A Team in the Cabinet that only PAP could form. With that boast, surely the A Team can work out something that could see how help in varying extent can be given to those with varying degrees of needs. There is no need for a blanket approach.

LKY thinks they are A Team material, but we know they are not actually A Team substance. How can LHL be A Team?

 

[TracyTan866]

Re: He Planned All These

hahaha.....life has becum miserable....
badly hit by the stock market.....every stock I touch......long or short......went against me
must blame papee for having a stock market.

shdn't life be more than just making money on the stock mkt? when u dabble in shares, u shd be using what u can afford to lose...dunt allow some losses to affect you...cheer up i m sure you have more gg than just shares

 

[Leongsam]

It's nice to know that you are sympathetic towards our last, lost and the least. However, I am not sure if it's not too a convenient excuse for the Govt not to do anything to help these people just because they will encounter difficulties in ensuring equitable treatment. Many of the present PAP policies already do not result in equitable treatment. LKY has boast of an A Team in the Cabinet that only PAP could form. With that boast, surely the A Team can work out something that could see how help in varying extent can be given to those with varying degrees of needs. There is no need for a blanket approach.

When I feel sorry for someone, I help them directly. I don't expect governments to get involved. The overheads and red tape required to set up a whole army of administrators, case managers, field workers, fraud prevention officers etc to assess and allocate funding according to need would require an even bigger budget than the one they were allocating to the poor.

I'm not imagining this scenario or making it up. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. The organisation is called winz. http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/

However, despite the huge amount of welfare paid out, this is what you get...

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...hildren-living-in-poverty-20110814-1isoi.html

One in four NZ children living in poverty

If an A team existed that could solve this problem, the issue of poverty would have been solved more than half a century ago.

You're an idealist and that is good. However, remember what I told you to temper that idealism with.

 

[TracyTan866]

When I feel sorry for someone, I help them directly. I don't expect governments to get involved. The overheads and red tape required to set up a whole army of administrators, case managers, field workers, fraud prevention officers etc to assess and allocate funding according to need would require an even bigger budget than the one they were allocating to the poor. I'm not imagining this scenario or making it up. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. The organisation is called winz. http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/

However, despite the huge amount of welfare paid out, this is what you get...

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...hildren-living-in-poverty-20110814-1isoi.html

One in four NZ children living in poverty

If an A team existed that could solve this problem, the issue of poverty would have been solved more than half a century ago.

You're an idealist and that is good. However, remember what I told you to temper that idealism with.

what's ur point?

 

[Cruxx]

The rich are so lazy. Instead of fetching water home from the lake, they use the tap. Instead of hunting their own meat, they do rather buy from the supermarket.

Concepts like "sloth" and "evil" are so archaic. The truth is that the unemployed aren't lazy. They are just under-incentivised for productive work, just as the rich are under-incentivised for menial labour.