CPF!!! Good Or Bad???

[HK14K]

Look at US Social Security ...they pay 5 pct to get a $2k monthly cheque (this is the max amount). The average payout is about $1300.
CPF makes you pay 20 pct and after accounting for inflation, you have actually lost money. Say you put 10k a year, over 30 years, your final total after compounding interest is $450k. If you invest this amount yourself just by buying an S&P etf, you would have net more than $1.3 million, assuming an average return of 8 pct. For the 1980 - 2013 period, the average return is 13 pct. The difference is $850k!!!!!!!

The CPF is a rip-off scheme, not one to help you save for retirement.

So comparing with the US now.... If their scheme is as good or perfect as you mentioned, why is it that 80% of the Americans doesn't own a house, they only rent...

 

[winnipegjets]

Then what is your basis of comparisons when you only compare the positive of HK like the HK pension generates higher interest and ignoring the HK property market.....

You said the HK Pension Plan is a copy of the CPF. The HK Pension Plan can't be used to buy properties.

Please.... As i mentioned, dun tried to fool yourself and only brings out the positive of other cities or countries.... How much the Germans are paying for their taxes???

So, you want to open another can of worms? How much services do the German get in return?

You're those typical kind who only brings out the negative to hit out on our govt and keep talking about others positives but avoiding those negatives of others just becoz you wanna make a point here that the govt is bad which is childish n ignorant of you

Despite being out of the country for so long, you still think like a PAPpy. For goodness sake, open up your mind lah.

 

[winnipegjets]

i think he meant, get another cuntry citizenship(like china passport?), then you can renounce SG citizenship and withdraw all your CPF

I think HK41k is still a sinkee lah ...he is just shooting blanks, not knowing his facts. Typical PAP mindset.

 

[HK14K]

That's taxation which is transparent. Why can't sinkapore just use taxation?


You use a few cases and generalize it as the outcome. Show me the numbers.


That's why he doesn't list in the US.

The CPF is being introduced during the British colonial times.... You mean is not existing in Britain now???

Show you numbers??? What numbers have you shown me??? You have been side-stepping all my direct replies to you and jump into another topic....

Go n check it out does Li Ka-Shing have any subsidiary that is listed in the US before you even start to fart. Dun ask me to show you links or numbers again which you have not shown me.

You're just one of those typical kind, you want the govt to give you the best, as long as one single thing that is not up to your satisfaction, you'll cried till as if you father or mother has passed away which the hokkiens call KPKB!!!

 

[HK14K]

You said the HK Pension Plan is a copy of the CPF. The HK Pension Plan can't be used to buy properties.


So, you want to open another can of worms? How much services do the German get in return?


Despite being out of the country for so long, you still think like a PAPpy. For goodness sake, open up your mind lah.

Show me in which of my sentence did I mentioned that about HK Pension Plan???? Please copy n show me and dun side-stepped.... You're the one who brought up HK pension plan n I reply you with MPFA website.... Again trying to twist n turn!!! But again you make a fool out of yourself.

No problems. List down all the pros of Germany n SG and list down all the cons of Germany n SG not forgetting the percentage of how many Germans does actually own a property back in their homeland....

To your disappoinment, I'm not thinking about PAP coz they dun support me neither did they aid me when i left SG. But the truth is many SG are looking back home when they leave and they realized the positive of what the govt have done rather than ppl like you is like a frog in the well...

I know of this Singaporean who works for CapitalLand in Wuhan. He simply cannot endure the culture and environment anymore. At first he ask for a posting back to SG but rejected and followed by another 2 times until he tender his resignation letter than the company give way to him and retract him out of Wuhan.... As I say, talk is cheap... Go n stay in places like Wuhan then you come n tell me SG is bad!!!

 

[revealer]

Have read many forum posts regarding CPF. Most arguments are at the both extreme ends, whether CPF is good or bad. They can argue until kingdom come and would still get no result until one started to fook the other. The title of this thread is likely to end the same. It is just like whether it is good to migrate. It has always the content of ‘the green is greener at the other ends and the moons are rounder there.”

We know that CPF is here to stay. Like many system, it has the goods and the bads. Lets focus on why Singaporeans are not happy about the CPF system and why one of the Singaporeans has taken offence to defame the PM.

About 10 years ago when CPF interest rate was high, there was not much complaints except for a very few who could not withdraw their savings at will. After 2007/08, things started to change. The CPF members were seeing lower interest rate. At first, no one was alarmed because interest rates were lowering everywhere all thanks to Bernanke’s QE monetary policies. Then when someone found that the Malaysian EPF and the Hong Kong Provident Funds etc could offer higher interests to their members, some members like Furry Brown beginning to question why in 2009. (Don’t get wrong ideas, I am not Furry Brown).

http://furrybrowndog.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/a-comparison-of-cpf-with-other-provident-funds/

There were also grumblings in many Forums after Malaysia and Hong Kong published their figures in 2008.

Lets forget about how and why this has developed until today’s stage where our PM has to take one of his citizens to court. As an ordinary Singaporean, I could only look helplessly as our Government has ignored the voices from the ground since 2008. What are those “grassroots” were doing or is it the present Government is so complacent that they are sure they will also win in the 2016 election? I am still seeking good answers.

Thanks for your contributions.

 

[HK14K]

I think HK41k is still a sinkee lah ...he is just shooting blanks, not knowing his facts. Typical PAP mindset.

Ya, you know the facts.... What facts have you brought up please????

Since I registered myself in this forum in July 2013 and cross swords with you, you and your gangs have been avoiding points that you guys can't answer. Comparing others positives to those negative, the best latest example is you comparing the returns of the HK pension plan which is mentioned by you n not me but not the HK property market....

You wanna talk about facts???? What facts can you show us when PAP have brought SG all the way till today when the whole world recognized us being a small island with no resources. You mean successful businessmen are as blind as you??? Why they choose SG for migration???? Why does a country as big as China wanna learn from us be it infrastructure or policies????

Yours is not facts but excuses becoz you're a loser in life n you put the blame on the govt.... Am I afraid of FTs???? No... The more the merrier becoz I know my strength... Becoz I can compete with them which is why I'm not afraid of them.... Of course losers like you will be frighten and give lame excuses like govt allowing FTs and shit like this....

Am I afraid of rising cost???? No... Cost I've the ability to earn and match the raising cost as i understood that if you wanna live in a 1st world city, that comes with a price.... Nothing comes for free. Only losers n ignorant ppl can't understand that!!!!

 

[frenchbriefs]

Ya, you know the facts.... What facts have you brought up please????

Since I registered myself in this forum in July 2013 and cross swords with you, you and your gangs have been avoiding points that you guys can't answer. Comparing others positives to those negative, the best latest example is you comparing the returns of the HK pension plan which is mentioned by you n not me but not the HK property market....

You wanna talk about facts???? What facts can you show us when PAP have brought SG all the way till today when the whole world recognized us being a small island with no resources. You mean successful businessmen are as blind as you??? Why they choose SG for migration???? Why does a country as big as China wanna learn from us be it infrastructure or policies????

Yours is not facts but excuses becoz you're a loser in life n you put the blame on the govt.... Am I afraid of FTs???? No... The more the merrier becoz I know my strength... Becoz I can compete with them which is why I'm not afraid of them.... Of course losers like you will be frighten and give lame excuses like govt allowing FTs and shit like this....

Am I afraid of rising cost???? No... Cost I've the ability to earn and match the raising cost as i understood that if you wanna live in a 1st world city, that comes with a price.... Nothing comes for free. Only losers n ignorant ppl can't understand that!!!!

bro are u a christian?all the facts u just listed sounds like gospel,like u just read the bible chapter 1 genesis and accepted what it said wholesale as the truth and nothing but the truth.did u even bother to do research and question the passages and use ur brain and think?

 

[HK14K]

bro are u a christian?all the facts u just listed sounds like gospel,like u just read the bible chapter 1 genesis and accepted what it said wholesale as the truth and nothing but the truth.did u even bother to do research and question the passages and use ur brain and think?

So did you use yr brains to think or yr ass to think when you claimed that SG govt are bad???

Where's yr research too??? Who build the MRT and so on??? Who made Changi the Best Airport in the world??? WP, LTK or yourself??? Hope your brains is not below your body!!!

 

[Leongsam]

Ya, you know the facts.... What facts have you brought up please????

Well said. I have added to your points.

 

[Seee3]

CPF is good if it is a fund strictly for retirement. It becomes bad when it is also used for housing and medical.

The fact that CPF is just a paper record and out of reach have caused the delusion to many people that it is not real money belonging to each individual. As such, many do not feel the actual cost of a flat when they pay using CPF. When they buy a flat, their primary concern was, "can I just pay with my CPF without touching my cash?" This has led to race away resale price which allow the govt to increase the base price of new flats. Unknowingly, the people has chased up housing price all because they didn't feel that money in CPF is real. It encourages SPECULATION. This end up in allowing the govt to transfer money in CPF from the people to the govt - through increase in new flat price and land sales. CPF for housing becomes real bad each time the property price collapsed. Many cannot continue with their mortgage payment and are forced to sell at a loss. When this takes place, his CPF account is permanently reduced by the amount loss and he no longer has a roof over his head. He would definitely be better off if CPF was not meant for housing because he might not have committed to the high price as the use of hard cash will be a real pinch to wake him up.

The use of CPF medisave has also help to drive up medical cost. With the same reasoning that deduction through medisave is not viewed as real money, many would go for unnecessary checks, tests and treatments, driving up unnecessary demand and cost. This old guy I know went for cataract op some ten years ago. Till today, he is still going for regular follow up checks, which I don't know what the hell for - simply because he didn't have to pay cash.

If CPF is solely for retirement, then housing price and medical cost might not be driven to such level. Inflation may be lower, so will be the cost of living. Each individual will have to manage and account for their own finances for housing and medical and govt need not face the wreath of the people on all these issues. If there is concern that too many people will not have the discipline to manage on their own, then separate compulsory funds could be set up for housing, medical and education; not lumped together under the same umbrella called CPF. Perhaps by separating the fund, it may allows greater flexibility in terms of contribution rates, etc

 

[Cestbon]

Look at US Social Security ...they pay 5 pct to get a $2k monthly cheque (this is the max amount). The average payout is about $1300.
CPF makes you pay 20 pct and after accounting for inflation, you have actually lost money. Say you put 10k a year, over 30 years, your final total after compounding interest is $450k. If you invest this amount yourself just by buying an S&P etf, you would have net more than $1.3 million, assuming an average return of 8 pct. For the 1980 - 2013 period, the average return is 13 pct. The difference is $850k!!!!!!!

The CPF is a rip-off scheme, not one to help you save for retirement.

Your point is inetrest rate for CPF is too low. >>>> that I agree
But now dont ever think of 8%. Is not easy

Past is past. Now what is a fair deal to CPF account holder ?? For me is guarantee min 4% for all amount in CPF. And extra up to 2% if 10YSGS ROI is 6%.
If 10YSGS less than 4% >> CPF still need to pay min 4%
And if 10YSGS more than 6% eg. 10% the invester pay CPF 6% the rest they can keep. That to make sure the management in 10YSGS performce. Less they need to top up until 4%.
No way head the win and tail they also win in the end CPF account holder get short change.

 

[Leongsam]

The fact that CPF is just a paper record and out of reach have caused the delusion to many people that it is not real money belonging to each individual. As such, many do not feel the actual cost of a flat when they pay using CPF. When they buy a flat, their primary concern was, "can I just pay with my CPF without touching my cash?" This has led to race away resale price which allow the govt to increase the base price of new flats. Unknowingly, the people has chased up housing price all because they didn't feel that money in CPF is real.

When I bought my first home, I used 50% real money and 50% CPF play money as down payment. The monthly loan repayment was funded 100% by play money.

As my salary rose in the early 80s, I bought 2 studio apartments again with a mixture of real money and play money. The loan was serviced with a portion of the rental returns plus play money.

When I sold my 2 studio apartments in 1994, I returned the play money with play money interest and pocketed more than $500,000 of real money in profits not to mention the additional cash in hand (real money) the rental returns provided monthly after deducting the loan installment.

If CPF had not been allowed for property purchases, I would not have had sufficient real money to pull this off and today I would be at least $6 million poorer in real money terms. CPF helped me tremendously.

That is why I say CPF is the best!

 

[Seee3]

....

If CPF had not been allowed for property purchases, I would not have had sufficient real money to pull this off and today I would be at least $6 million poorer in real money terms. CPF helped me tremendously.

That is why I say CPF is the best!

Many aunties and Malays played the same game as you. They won the first round, bought a bigger one, took a bigger loan and spent the difference. When the game ends, they lost every plus their shelter. Some are worse. They joined in too late and are stuck with a huge loan. Lost their job, sold house at a lost, ended up with no house and reduced CPF.

Property is nothing but a game of money transfer. If someone managed to made a windfall of 6 million, out there somewhere, another group of silly people must have lost 6 million. Not everyone can play this game. However, greed will entice even the straight and simple-minded to join in, after seeing friends making money so easily. Unfortunately, by the time they enter the market, it's too late. The other group are those fools who had won earlier but didn't know when to take a break. They continued and died in the end.

CPF provides the facilities for those who know to siphon money from those who don't. So it is the best ????

 

[HK14K]

Well said. I have added to your points.

Thank you!!!

And this twist-turner winniepegjet make a fool out of himself again by slapping his own cheap mouth n as usual, disappear into the thick forest of Samy Boy Forum

 

[winnipegjets]

Thank you!!!

And this twist-turner winniepegjet make a fool out of himself again by slapping his own cheap mouth n as usual, disappear into the thick forest of Samy Boy Forum

I don't bother going to the second page. Your replies have become so idiotic that no one bothers replying.

Since you beg for your some attention, out of the goodness of my heart, I shall reply.

 

[winnipegjets]

When I bought my first home, I used 50% real money and 50% CPF play money as down payment. The monthly loan repayment was funded 100% by play money.

As my salary rose in the early 80s, I bought 2 studio apartments again with a mixture of real money and play money. The loan was serviced with a portion of the rental returns plus play money.

When I sold my 2 studio apartments in 1994, I returned the play money with play money interest and pocketed more than $500,000 of real money in profits not to mention the additional cash in hand (real money) the rental returns provided monthly after deducting the loan installment.

If CPF had not been allowed for property purchases, I would not have had sufficient real money to pull this off and today I would be at least $6 million poorer in real money terms. CPF helped me tremendously.

That is why I say CPF is the best!

Policies are not made to serve only the 20 percent on top. It is the 80 percent that matters. 80 percent can lynch the 20 percent.

 

[HK14K]

I don't bother going to the second page. Your replies have become so idiotic that no one bothers replying.

Since you beg for your some attention, out of the goodness of my heart, I shall reply.

Idiotic??? I'm still waiting for you to copy n show me in which post did I mentioned about the HK Pension Plan... What a disgrace to your mum n ancestor!!!

And what have you replied on??? Making a fool out of yourself is not enough and you still wanna act like a retard????

 

[winnipegjets]

Ya, you know the facts.... What facts have you brought up please????

Alamak, I have to spell that out to you as well? I didn't know you were so daft.

Comparing others positives to those negative, the best latest example is you comparing the returns of the HK pension plan which is mentioned by you n not me but not the HK property market....

I asked you what other countries copy the CPF model, you can only point out the HK Pension Plan. No other developed country has the rip-off CPF system because the population will toss out any government that try to bring this in. Ang mos are much smarter than you ...your idol, Sam Leong thinks so too.
We are talking about retirement savings, not property speculation. I compared CPF rate of returns to the MPF's. That's an apple to apple comparison.

You wanna talk about facts???? What facts can you show us when PAP have brought SG all the way till today when the whole world recognized us being a small island with no resources.

Sinkapore is so insignificant that no one bothers to do serious analysis on this peesai. That's why sinkapore gets positive reviews; they just take the data from the government. Government statistics has the same reliability as that from the PRC.

You mean successful businessmen are as blind as you??? Why they choose SG for migration???? Why does a country as big as China wanna learn from us be it infrastructure or policies????

If I am a rich Ah Tiong, I will definitely come to sinkapore. It is money laundering hub catering to Asians, especially Ah Tiongs.
Ah Tiong business don't invest in sinkapore!
China copies sinkapore because they want the same system ...total political control. But the Communist Party is starting to realize that the Chinese cannot be easily cowed like sinkees.

Yours is not facts but excuses becoz you're a loser in life n you put the blame on the govt.... Am I afraid of FTs???? No... The more the merrier becoz I know my strength... Becoz I can compete with them which is why I'm not afraid of them.... Of course losers like you will be frighten and give lame excuses like govt allowing FTs and shit like this....

You ran away to Ah Tiong land! Goh Chok Tong calls you a loser.

Am I afraid of rising cost???? No... Cost I've the ability to earn and match the raising cost as i understood that if you wanna live in a 1st world city, that comes with a price.... Nothing comes for free. Only losers n ignorant ppl can't understand that!!!!

You can't even get your story right ...you say you gave up your sinkeehood, collect your CPF in whole, live in China/HK ...now you say you live here.
Time for you to take your meds.

 

[winnipegjets]

Then why are you comparing SG to Germany???? Slapping your own cheap mouth???

You don't even remember your posts! You brought up Germany first.