Chinese Educated Chinese - reap what you sow

[kingrant]

Like most countries, there's always an ethnic, race or whatever you want to label it, predominant group trying to wrestle control and spread their network (wealth), culture and stifle any other race around.

I am a peranakan guy growing up in a poor family and I can say I took the brunt of most these Chinese Ed hatred since I could remember. Typical english ed are rich and hence arrogant from what I observed. But because I talk like them due to my better "england" and culture I end up with the sam brush but without the safety net of the rich network and lifestyle to avoid such cretins.

Looking back as an adult now. I find it strange that such is the way of life for minorities in singapore. When I was in the army, surely I was badly bullied and beaten. And like my Indian friend across the other company complained equally the same issues with these chinese ed I encountered. At that time and age, I thought I was the problem and I didn't even know about this Chinese Ed issue, let alone protected.

In the political scene, Tang Liang Hong confronted this issue to the most ugliest possible and I thought he sucked cos he brought other factors in like religion and status and turned it into a circus. Yes, there's some truth in it but the big picture painted was distorted and wrong, like what if a Chinese ed was christian? I believe its better handled at a personal basis. Such issue can never be solved by "policies".

As I grew up, I see my job opportunities being taken away by these chinese ed as again, I had no like minded network. In fact, competing in interviews for executive jobs, speaking much better than the ah beng without much effort didnt land me any decent jobs. At one time during the recession, for a customer service job with Starhub. When I spoke fluently, the ah lian interviewers face turned soured and hostle. Some ppl just dont know that expressions are obvious. Mind you, I am not the ABC fake slanger type. I can also speak hokkien like the pai kia style as I came from such low life schools. Its so bad that the schools defunct now.

And even, when I got the job, guess what? Yep, the harrassment didnt stop. You find these cretins being backstabbing colleagues. Not the usual ones that try to bring u down and get themselves promoted. The "ostracising, lying, defamimg, backstabbing, get promoted and got you fired at the same time type.

Sometimes, when I see these ah bengs in their pseudo sports car, Subaru and the ilk, with their golden pork floss disaster of a hair, playing loud neon strobing music, while I waited for my next bus ride, I cringe at the thought of Capitalism's cruel way of showing the survival of the fittest motto.

Thankfully, in a strange way, the govt decision of opening the PR floodgates sort of defused the whole chinese ad stranglehold. Now, they are busy bitching about these ppl, a taste of their own medicine as I hope one day, they end up like a minority and go through what I did.

I wonder how many minorities went through life like me. rant over.

What is yr problem? Just because you speak English or better, are you implying that the world owes you a living?

Hey, get out of my elite uncaring face lah! This country already ruled by a Baba family, what else do you want?

 

[Dmode101]

i left after a 2 years and went to work for an mnc and never looked back. would never work for a local Singapore firm again (but i have worked for Western MNC, Taiwanese, Japanese and Gulf Arab firms with no problem. With local firms because it seems people stay there forever and these little groups form that are more interested in politics than work - maybe because work performance didn't matter much as bonus and promotions are so difficult to get. of course not all local Chinese Singaporeans are like this but too many are. in the many years i worked in Singapore 10+ my best friends were Malaysian Chinese and Indians from Indian, only 2 or 3 Singaporean friends from work. My wife is a Penang Chinese.

Glad to here you made it into MNC culture. Yeah, thats the gist of it. For me, Ive been struggling in the advertisng world as theres no market anymore. the only pie left are for the bastard ang mos and RICH english ed ppl. places like Leo burnett, saatchi, DDB, etc are really elite and theres very few opportunities. I end up like small semi cheena ad agencies tht end up designing fr local bosses who fucks their profit margin. local clients pay badly. At least now, I am working for a non chinese boss. safe but boring.

Lest anyone call me banana, my gf is pure chinese, but she doesnt like to speak chinese or chinese songs because she felt its really difficult to learn and that she notice chinese ppl are very anti western, when it comes to international influence in trends. She has a more liberal view on life. I used to have cheena frds from my poly days and altho we have little in common, they do treat me like a frd. However, i must admit, theres always these lingering racism, that I am a mongrel of sorts. You cant please all of them all the time I guess.

 

[Dmode101]

Sadly, although English is my first language, I belong to the Singlish generation.

I don't see how you can equate loving Chinese songs and preferring to use one's mother tongue (in my case, my dialect was replaced by Mandarin) during social gatherings to being Chinese educated. Unless you are a brutal dictator, you can't really force people to abandon what they feel most comfortable with. Personally, I can switch easily between using English and Mandarin and I usually just go along with whatever language I am being spoken to, that is, I do not try to change the conversation language on my own initiative (you may call it passive but I don't really have a preference of English/Mandarin during conversations). It is different when it comes to tv shows and songs though, I will admit that I am heavily biased towards Chinese-based ones as they are what I can identify with most.

It wasn't always the case. I used to hate Chinese to the core and did just enough to get a passing score. The turning point came when I was introduced to one of those kungfu novels by Louis Cha sometime during my late teens. Because of that, my view of Chinese changed dramatically and I began to see the beauty of the language and the cultural values transmitted along with that.

As I suspected, you probably faced some discrimination in those SMEs as the people employed by these companies usually aren't very comfortable using English. I do agree that job ads should not carry the terms "Mandarin speaking only" unless the role requires the candidate to deal with people mainly using Mandarin. This could be the case for SMEs if their suppliers and customers can't speak English well. Under British rule, the population was partitioned into their proper slots (i.e. Chinese, Malays, Indians, English speaking, Hokkien speaking, Cantonese speaking, etc) and come into contact with each other only when necessary. When Singapore became a nation, this issue of languages did not go away and it is not easy to solve. To the government's credit, I must say they did whatever they could (although I still think they went overboard in discouraging dialects) to ensure that there is a common ground among all. If you feel aggrieved, I think there were also many Chinese educated people who felt even more upset when their education was deemed by the government as of lower value. The "Speak Mandarin" campaign was not aimed at raising the status of the Chinese educated, it was targeted at eradicating the use of dialects.

You were probably just trapped by circumstances not within anyone's control. With the current generation, I don't see this as a serious issue as they would all be using Singlish (although for social functions, it would still be inevitable for different races to stick mostly with their own kind).

But with the recent influx of immigrants, I am not sure how this language issue is going to pan out. I sense Tamil is already being sidelined by Hindi if I am not wrong.

Contrary to what LKY said, I think being proficient in just one language would be unwise in SG's context. If you intend to migrate to a country where only one language is predominant, then that is fine but in SG, knowing more than one language will always provide a very significant difference to your life. This is because SG is heavily dependent on the external environment.

Great read. I did research on Bilingualism for one of my degree projects and the findings of the "Turning Point" is predominately at the teenage years, like what you yourself choose. Most are forced to choose because thats where peer pressure is the highest during I would guess in ppoly of worse, JC. Cliques are formed for the first time and never experience dilemma forces ppl to choose and they tend to stick to the same culture because its the same at home.

Perhaps, because chinese ed chinese are the majority, very few understood the babas plight because we cnverse in either, hokkien (chinese dialect half), English and Malay.

Alot of chinese ed dont realise that we are very different as we grew up watching, Chinese shows, malay shows, english shows and even indian shows. We are really rojak and tend to stick to english because it was natural to take the most common, as we dont have a strong influence for mandarin in the family. And hence, becos of this, the chinese society lack of empathy see us as one with the rich and arrogant english speaking chinese, which may not be babas at all!!!

There is a big difference in english ed chinese CHOOSING to be westernised and Babas having no choice because of our bloodline has mixed race hence mixed culture. That is my point for the thread.

I agree with you that the govt were too harsh in killing the dialects for the sake of Mandarin as one language. Unification is political as at that time china also was very communist and not open yet and had many different tribes and dialects. Much like ang mo france, england, etc. They sort of move on and separate, BUt China is like a strange beast where instead of breaking into smaller manageable countries they consolidate.

I can conclude with you the current FT issue is very dynamic as all this old racism thing will be swept aside and alot of ppl will have to adapt. Either that or emmigrate lor! No money no talk. No choice poor ppl like me have to break through with much effort.

 

[Dmode101]

What is yr problem? Just because you speak English or better, are you implying that the world owes you a living?

Hey, get out of my elite uncaring face lah! This country already ruled by a Baba family, what else do you want?

First, I am a POOR baba. So, half fuck commando is still half fuck.

relax la. Outside, cheena attack me so i cant come to an ENGLISH forum to rant ah? Wah, dont make it so ironic leh.

And seriously, this is my thread reaching out to minorities and also is a rant. It is you who came in here. knn so many thread u must come in and add more stress. xiao kia.

 

[littlefish]

Alot of chinese ed dont realise that we are very different as we grew up watching, Chinese shows, malay shows, english shows and even indian shows. We are really rojak and tend to stick to english because it was natural to take the most common, as we dont have a strong influence for mandarin in the family. And hence, becos of this, the chinese society lack of empathy see us as one with the rich and arrogant english speaking chinese, which may not be babas at all!!!

There is a big difference in english ed chinese CHOOSING to be westernised and Babas having no choice because of our bloodline has mixed race hence mixed culture. That is my point for the thread.

My point is that the faultlines existed way before SG became independent. They were just brought to the forefront because we were no longer a colony and the different segments of society needed to come together.

If you were to look at those newly-minted angmo countries (i.e. those not in Europe), you will always find some natives there harbouring strong ill-feelings against the angmos. This is despite the sincerity of their governments to try to right the past wrongs. I am not saying that they should not feel this way, I am just saying that there will always be those who can't find it in their hearts to forgive. For this group, it is difficult for them to move on with life.

How do we know that you were not singled out for abuse/discrimination because of your attitude?

Let's for a moment, put down your grievances and imagine that you are in charge in SG, what do you think you would have done that would make the place better for you? Please take into account also how your policies might affect those unlike you. Who knows? Maybe some minister might read your comments here and take them into consideration.

If you think that hell will freeze over before SG can change its behaviour, you are certainly in good company in this forum, although I am always eternally hopeful.

 

[Dmode101]

How do we know that you were not singled out for abuse/discrimination because of your attitude?
hopeful.

If attitude were an strong indication to economic failure rather than being baba, then Dick Lee would have to hide his gayness.

 

[Dmode101]

Let's for a moment, put down your grievances and imagine that you are in charge in SG, what do you think you would have done that would make the place better for you? Please take into account also how your policies might affect those unlike you. Who knows? Maybe some minister might read your comments here and take them into consideration.

Actually, its fairly simple. Its not us minorities so tone down, but the chinese ed majority. Your condescending way of telling me what to do is precisely the problem I am showing. The solution has always been there, english language metropolitan mindset, not this backward tribal feelings that wont go away.

Look, we chinese came here from china out of our own free will and known that left right centre is all Malay and muslim countries. Its quite stupid to want to flex your Pro china Chinese culture stand after 3 generations. Whats your problem you should ask. If you think theres this utopia of chinese ppl in one land then you should consider migrating to China. Because thats the only solution. Or else staying here means that you cant let go of this place because it makes money.

Thats the ugly truth. dont tell us otherwise.

 

[littlefish]

Actually, its fairly simple. Its not us minorities so tone down, but the chinese ed majority. Your condescending way of telling me what to do is precisely the problem I am showing. The solution has always been there, english language metropolitan mindset, not this backward tribal feelings that wont go away.

Look, we chinese came here from china out of our own free will and known that left right centre is all Malay and muslim countries. Its quite stupid to want to flex your Pro china Chinese culture stand after 3 generations. Whats your problem you should ask. If you think theres this utopia of chinese ppl in one land then you should consider migrating to China. Because thats the only solution. Or else staying here means that you cant let go of this place because it makes money.

Thats the ugly truth. dont tell us otherwise.

You have quite a huge chip on your shoulder. I was in no way condescending. As you yourself have said, the majority may not understand your problems, you should have the initiative to elucidate on those problems to help yourself rather than waiting for others to figure out that you feel upset. If you are in an angmo country, the onus is on you to speak up. Silence means consent.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to retain your own culture. Just look at the Malaysian Chinese, they did not even abandon Chinese education, so SG is not alone in this instance. You yourself are a very good study in not wanting abandon your own culture even though the reality is that the majority of Chinese in SG are not Peranakans. My stand is that no one should be forced to discard one's roots but they should make every effort to integrate into mainstream society.

Yes, all of us may have left China but that doesn't mean that every one of us does not appreciate Chinese culture totally. People left China for many reasons. In SG's case, mostly for economic reasons. You are viewing others with the same "coloured spectacles" (that is a Chinese expression meaning prejudice) that you accuse other SG Chinese of using.

It is easy to blame others but much harder to reflect upon oneself. I believe the Confucian saying is to accommodate others' faults but to be strict in correcting one's faults (if you are interested in the exact Chinese text, I can provide that for you).

Lastly, I repeat that it is not about feeling superior about one's culture but rather about retaining one's cultural identity. I guess it may be difficult for someone like you to grasp this as you feel no affinity for all things Chinese. I can accept that but you should respect the right of others to differ in opinion. I guess I now know why you were treated the way you were.

 

[Dmode101]

You have quite a huge chip on your shoulder. I was in no way condescending. As you yourself have said, the majority may not understand your problems, you should have the initiative to elucidate on those problems to help yourself rather than waiting for others to figure out that you feel upset. If you are in an angmo country, the onus is on you to speak up. Silence means consent.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to retain your own culture. Just look at the Malaysian Chinese, they did not even abandon Chinese education, so SG is not alone in this instance. You yourself are a very good study in not wanting abandon your own culture even though the reality is that the majority of Chinese in SG are not Peranakans. My stand is that no one should be forced to discard one's roots but they should make every effort to integrate into mainstream society.

Yes, all of us may have left China but that doesn't mean that every one of us does not appreciate Chinese culture totally. People left China for many reasons. In SG's case, mostly for economic reasons. You are viewing others with the same "coloured spectacles" (that is a Chinese expression meaning prejudice) that you accuse other SG Chinese of using.

It is easy to blame others but much harder to reflect upon oneself. I believe the Confucian saying is to accommodate others' faults but to be strict in correcting one's faults (if you are interested in the exact Chinese text, I can provide that for you).

Lastly, I repeat that it is not about feeling superior about one's culture but rather about retaining one's cultural identity. I guess it may be difficult for someone like you to grasp this as you feel no affinity for all things Chinese. I can accept that but you should respect the right of others to differ in opinion. I guess I now know why you were treated the way you were.

I am treated the way I were because of racism. Please dont write one big turn around essay and say otherwise. Racist ppl are bastards is what I am talking about. I am a very fair person and Ive said it in my previous comments and I did mention I do watch and enjoy chinese movies and some of their culture, I am after all half chinese.

I dont know what is your point now. I am venting this anger at racist pure cheenas and you know which group of ppl I am refering to. Some posters have voiced out this same group and I can tell you there are many. They attack you indirectly and perhaps a trait I am seeing so now after such a lengthy and almost fruitful discussion here.

I was a nice person and have never got anyone fired just because I find him or her different. Even if someone has an attitude problem, it doesnt mean YOU should get him fired. I think you have unwittingly reveal your nature by taunting me with that unnecessary remark.

I have every right to bring this group of racist cheena to this topic and shame them for what they fucking are. Just because they are majority doesnt mean its right to flex their tribal feelings to us. I have tried to assimilate during my younger days when that age group are more open and not so brainwashed by racist elders - unfortunately it is very diffucult because the english language and chinese language thinking is very different as Ive mentioned. In the end, tolerance is the word for all parties NOT assimilation as how could we totally abandon our roots like you said?

In conclusion, its really fuck up attitude to question why should a racist victim should feel upset. Its a simple and straight forward problem. We are being victimised, comprende? In this world there are good and bad people. nothing complicated. Bad people in majority race usually take advantage of the situation to bully the minority. Go ask how malaysian chinese are being bullied by the majority unreasonable Malays. Do they fuck try to assimilate? Off course, but how much can they tolerate before ending up coming here to work?

And its not like I am some teenager coming here after having one bad episode in school today. Fucking hell, its been almost 20 years of these shit. Ive tried to solve this problem is so many many ways for the good of my adulthood i could write a fucking novel on it. Make it two novels. To those understanding chinese ed ppl who tolerated our "mongrel" or other minor races, good on you. Those who did racist thing can fuck right off and seriously I hope they get to taste their own medicine with the FT coming in.:oIo:

 

[scoobyhoo]

i thought we have known each other in real world and wonder why you say these here?

 

[sammyboi]

on year 2000, there are called CHINESE REFUGEES. (familiar?)

Glad to here you made it into MNC culture. Yeah, thats the gist of it. For me, Ive been struggling in the advertisng world as theres no market anymore. the only pie left are for the bastard ang mos and RICH english ed ppl. places like Leo burnett, saatchi, DDB, etc are really elite and theres very few opportunities. I end up like small semi cheena ad agencies tht end up designing fr local bosses who fucks their profit margin. local clients pay badly. At least now, I am working for a non chinese boss. safe but boring.

Lest anyone call me banana, my gf is pure chinese, but she doesnt like to speak chinese or chinese songs because she felt its really difficult to learn and that she notice chinese ppl are very anti western, when it comes to international influence in trends. She has a more liberal view on life. I used to have cheena frds from my poly days and altho we have little in common, they do treat me like a frd. However, i must admit, theres always these lingering racism, that I am a mongrel of sorts. You cant please all of them all the time I guess.

 

[kensington]

Nelson Mandela has this to say :

If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head.
If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart.


Why all these bitchings about english and mandarin ?
If you can't beat them, join them. Learning a new language is not that hard.
Just say NO to singlish because it is not a language !!!

 

[Dmode101]

Nelson Mandela has this to say :

If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head.
If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart.


Why all these bitchings about english and mandarin ?
If you can't beat them, join them. Learning a new language is not that hard.
Just say NO to singlish because it is not a language !!!

Well, if theres someone to blame, its these idiots from babylon....

1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children built. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do; and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

 

[cunnosieur]

PRC Bank Exec
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Happen to be at waterloo street doing some bank transaction yesterday lunch time, was told by the counter staff to wait for 15min to half an hour. Went out for a quick puff and saw this gal leaning on my car talking on her phone. The moment she lift up her head, I was WOW..... Not bad leh. She smile back and say sorrie, I told her to carry on leaning in a joking way. We chatted awhile and got to know that she just arrived 3 weeks ago working at the Bank which I just went. So I try to date her out for a drink and she say OK (My Lucky Day).

Pick her up after her work at 5.30pm and we went downtown for dinner. I was trying my best to test water (NO LUCK). We headed to Boat Quay for a drink after dinner and I told myself this time DIE DIE also must ask. All of a sudden, she burst into tear (ALCOHOL EFFECT), saying she misses her parent. I try to console her and told her not to think so much. Time passes and we are now more open up, I pop up the question to her:

Me: Why dun you try to earn more money while you are in SG?
She: How to?
Me: Do part time lor.
She: What is part time?
Me: Must I go into detail, then you can understand.
(Slient for a while) and (Burst into laughter)
She: How much am I worth in your eye.
Me: Hard to say, depends on how good are you.
She: How much do you want to give me, if I say OK to you.
Me: 150 lor (Man Ego).
She: If I am good to you, you give me more is it?
Me: Let see how good are you.
Me: How???
She: Can try. Is it now?
Me: Now lor. If not when?
She: Where?
Me: I bring you there.

10.45pm we check into a hotel at chinatown and the rest is story.....

Name: Txxx Xxxx
Age: 25
Look: 7.5 (Young office exec look)
Stats: 34B / 24 / 34 (I think so)
BBBJ: Yes for me
FJ: 9 (good moaning)
Painting: Yes for me
CIM: No
AR: No
AJ: No
Attitude: Very anticipating
Damage: 150 / 1shot
Overall: Good
RTF: Yes for sure (Bonking a Pretty Bank Exec)