Casino gambling fall in here!!!

[aurvandil]

I have not been reading the long posts on the technical and probability aspects of casino games.
My reason is very simple.
If there are people who gamble for a living or play only for the sole purpose of winning, they should not be gambling at casinos, since we all know that most gamblers eventually lose. Of course, there will be some who win, but these are the minority.
People who should be gambling at casinos are those who can afford to lose and gamble not only to win, but also for the entertainment and the thrill.
Reading books and studying all the statistics may help to win more, but it takes some of the fun out of gambling.
People who can't afford to lose should not visit casinos too often, like me.

Actually you CAN WIN IN THE LONG RUN playing blackjack in the casino using Basic and nn chips. The best place to do this is Macau where the competition of the nn chip business is fierce. The worst place to do it is RWS/MBS as you have to pay $100 to go in and there aren't any junket nn packages you can buy.

Even so, it is a HIGH RISK LOW RETURN game. Assuming PERFECT BASIC and standard rules, you expected return for every $1 million you bet is only $2,000. The variance in blackjack is huge so your actual result could be anything from loosing the whole $1 million to winning $1 million.

 

[thegambler888]

I have just read the article you provided and I want to point out a few things to you.

Firstly, Baldwin's optimal strategy is based on using 1 DECK. The calculations and permutations he is using is based on 1 DECK.

Read page 3/11, 5/11 and understand that the calculations are based on 1 deck of cards and using probability. He is not wrong. But this article was written in the year 1956. Now is year 2010. 54 years later, the casinos no longer use 1 deck to play blackjack with everyone. Neither do they use a shoe to put in 6-8 deck of cards. They use machine shufflers.

Baldwin's calculation is not wrong, its how people comprehend it and think of it as past days theories have already been offset by new ways of adding decks and shuffling machine to eliminate card counting. So some of the strategies mentioned in basic strategy written years ago have to be modified to suit modern play.

In this case, I will not be taking up with the mathematician because he is basing his calculations using only 1 deck. With the player having a pair of AAs and in a deck with only 4As, the probability of dealer getting an A is not mentioned.(not difficult to count. only left 2) Let's say with a 6 deck shoe, total number of As in deck is 24pcs, not 4pcs of As.

Overall, I would say there is nothing wrong in his article but different people are comprehending it in a different way. Modern blackjack using 6 decks and shuffling machine has override past day blackjack with using 1 deck and card counting. If we are staying in the past era, of course you can comprehend it that way, but now is 2010, the gameplay has changed.

You are so out of touch with reality that I'm not sure what to say. aurvandil has already covered it above. Common sense, please.

 

[silverfox@]

Btw, if the dealer makes a mistake on the payout, will the security cameras pick this up and force the player to pay back? Or is a dealer's mistake considered the casino's loss?

It depends on whether the pit manager is around. Just now was at MBS with my friend and the croupier paid out wrongly 1 time where instead of paying $250, he paid out $500 as there were a couple of splits and after splitting one more double down. He mistook the chips for another split as an extra double down and paid extra $250.

But as my friend was winning over $15K on that table, the pit manager start to make more visits to the table. There was another time the croupier paid out extra due to Surrender, the manager spotted the mistake and told my friend to stop first while the manager told the croupier his mistake. Of course can't take the extra already.

Normally if its not a lot of chips, they wouldn't request for return, but if they do, we have to return the extra. Most of the time, in the security rm, they have thousands of cameras and unless there is "abnormal" winning activity, they wouldn't take so much notice.

 

[silverfox@]

I think previously you were asking how to verify if what the professors say is true. If you are interested to do this, then what you need to do is look at the VBA code to see how the simulation works. From then, it is not too difficult to modify the code so that it works for the unique condtions at RWS/MBS.

The journal article on BASIC is obviously outdated since it was published in the 1950s. Since then, there have been of course more recent articles that use more updated rules and circumstances. The basis of the results of the articles is usually based on empirical work derived from simulations similar to the one in the url link.

I think we are talking on different channels or frequencies.
It's a 6 deck, no more card count, shuffling machine era.
No longer a 1 deck, shoe deck delivery for blackjack.

The simulations work when the cards are already out of the deck and calculation is based on remaining cards left behind. However, this is old school already. Now, the cards are fed into shuffling machine with 6 decks of cards in it. (If you ever seen the inside of the shuffling machine, there are many caches and slots to accommodate the different decks. Each card drawn, random caches will deliver the card to the delivery.) So each time, there will be 6 decks in shuffling machine, no cards short.

In short, just to say that CANNOT card count.

If want a bit more edge (I don't know what's the percentage), can try RWS, they use 4 decks to shuffle only. Whether it gives an edge for people who like less decks, I am not sure it helps or not because they also use card shuffling machines. However they hit on soft 17. Gameplay is slower with all the +-13 bets. Really waste of time.

 

[skerdog]

Interesting read, personally I would like to listen to more of Silverfox experience rather then talk about % and odds on paper.

More interesting to heard how one control emotion at the table, otherwise all the statistic is not going to save anyone.

And I thin Silverfox friend very good, his concept is to win when card is strong and dealer is weak and minimise loss when one's card is weak and dealer is strong. It was a real mind changing concept for me personally cause I never thought of it this way before, it's like FOREX/stock trading strategy: protect your capital/profit.

And to add, I wouldn't split 8-8 when dealer has Ace, unless I want to die faster. Best case scenerio is the next card is a high card and 18 points but what if it was something like 4-9? Moving from a weak hand to another set of dilemma.:(

And to further add, I see people splitting on 20! I mean, why take risk when the money is almost in the bag? Any thoughts on this?

 

[sg4dlive]

Statistics is "dead" but our human brain is"dynamic" ! We make decision based on stats plus strategy. On top of that, most importantly is to to manage "emotion" ! As far as you make profit, whether is small or big amount, end of the day is to walk out with the money with you. You will be the winner and laughing all the way the bank !

I would like to see more experts to share a workable and tested solution whether is in black jack or barcarrat or Roulette. Maybe say out of 10 times, you can win 7-8 times. It will be valuable for those trying to make a living or win some money over the weekend. Many thanks for sharing !

 

[silverfox@]

Statistics is "dead" but our human brain is"dynamic" ! We make decision based on stats plus strategy. On top of that, most importantly is to to manage "emotion" ! As far as you make profit, whether is small or big amount, end of the day is to walk out with the money with you. You will be the winner and laughing all the way the bank !

I would like to see more experts to share a workable and tested solution whether is in black jack or barcarrat or Roulette. Maybe say out of 10 times, you can win 7-8 times. It will be valuable for those trying to make a living or win some money over the weekend. Many thanks for sharing !

Just finished 1 very tiring session at MBS. Today is slightly more crowded than other days, probably long weekend.

Actually to share 1 strategy which my friend has been using is he SURRENDERS his cards when dealer card is strong and his card is weak. SO imagine when he plays the whole table, there will be a couple of cards he surrenders so as to lose half. He said most players who play against dealers do not like to surrender their cards because they deem surrendering as lose before outcome is divulged.

People who get 16, dealer has a 10, they normally will not surrender as it will lose half. But look at SURRENDERING as an option of saving half your bet.

Try playing the surrendering rule while playing at home. You will realise your money position will not be in deep trouble if your cards are not strong and dealer has strong cards.

In blackjack, the most important strategy is to use your SURRENDER when you need to. When our cards are strong, then its time for dealer to fear. Every half bet saved becomes an ocean of bets.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Any bros can help to share information in MBS like how the Premier Advantage membership work ?

Over the weekend I clocked 400+ points to upgrade to Premier Gold,
guess this is not difference from the Premier red card (normal).

One thing good is the Premier dollars can use to redeem meals in Tung Dim & NEST restaurants.

I had seen the Paiza club card members gambling big bet like $5,000 (yellow chip)
per bet in Baccarat tables in High Limit section.

(1) What is the benefit inside the Casino of been a Premier Platnium (bai jin ka) member for clocking 888 points ?

(2) Can public enter Ruby Room ? Any difference between Ruby Room and High Limited section ?


Thank

 

[silverfox@]

Any bros can help to share information in MBS like how the Premier Advantage membership work ?

Over the weekend I clocked 400+ points to upgrade to Premier Gold,
guess this is not difference from the Premier red card (normal).

One thing good is the Premier dollars can use to redeem meals in Tung Dim & NEST restaurants.

I had seen the Paiza club card members gambling big bet like $5,000 (yellow chip)
per bet in Baccarat tables in High Limit section.

(1) What is the benefit inside the Casino of been a Premier Platnium (bai jin ka) member for clocking 888 points ?

(2) Can public enter Ruby Room ? Any difference between Ruby Room and High Limited section ?

Thank

I think the Premier Advantage card works like the Genting Worldcard. Red, Silver, Gold, Platinum

I have the Genting card but I didn't register for the membership card at MBS because there always seem to have a queue and the queue moves very slow. I haven't went in the Ruby room before because on weekdays the common areas is like only 40-50% filled up.

High limits section can clock more points if you sit on the table. If you are betting $1000 per hand, the points you collect for your membership card is different if you sit on a min$25, or min$50 vs a min$100 or min$300 table. The points work on how much the min bet is and the points are earned via duration you sit on it, not how much you bet. Ruby room should work about the same way.

Having a membership card got convenience because on saturday, when me and my friend went to the cashier to cash out our chips, mine about $8K, and my friend $45k, the cashier did ask us for our membership cards but we told them we don't have, then we have to give them our identity card and then they call office, verify, etc. For changing of chips above $5k, they have to go thru the checks. Take quite a while, and need to sign a receipt. i think with a membership card, there is no need to wait that long

 

[Heart Break Kid]

I think the Premier Advantage card works like the Genting Worldcard. Red, Silver, Gold, Platinum

I have the Genting card but I didn't register for the membership card at MBS because there always seem to have a queue and the queue moves very slow. I haven't went in the Ruby room before because on weekdays the common areas is like only 40-50% filled up.

High limits section can clock more points if you sit on the table. If you are betting $1000 per hand, the points you collect for your membership card is different if you sit on a min$25, or min$50 vs a min$100 or min$300 table. The points work on how much the min bet is and the points are earned via duration you sit on it, not how much you bet. Ruby room should work about the same way.

Having a membership card got convenience because on saturday, when me and my friend went to the cashier to cash out our chips, mine about $8K, and my friend $45k, the cashier did ask us for our membership cards but we told them we don't have, then we have to give them our identity card and then they call office, verify, etc. For changing of chips above $5k, they have to go thru the checks. Take quite a while, and need to sign a receipt. i think with a membership card, there is no need to wait that long

Ya bro silverfox,

That why I alway play Baccarat & Blackjack in High Limit section to clock more points. Normally I sit in min $200 or min $300 Baccarat light-blue tables in front of the Cage Cashier,
I think the pit managers did check how much I bet per hand & recorded down

Of course I am not a high roller but my bet is still quite substantial comparing to people gambling outside
(min $25, $50 or $100)

Thinking of entering Ruby Room.. this evening to see see look look first

 

[aurvandil]

Ya bro silverfox,

That why I alway play Baccarat & Blackjack in High Limit section to clock more points. Normally I sit in min $200 or min $300 Baccarat light-blue tables in front of the Cage Cashier,
I think the pit managers did check how much I bet per hand & recorded down

Of course I am not a high roller but my bet is still quite substantial comparing to people gambling outside
(min $25, $50 or $100)

Thinking of entering Ruby Room.. this evening to see see look look first

Many people like to treated like a VIP in a casino. I suppose it has to do with living a fantasy lifestyle.

If you want the status of a high VIP card, you will do much better playing outside in the low limit tables than in the high limit section.

Firstly, sit down and change a sizable amount of chips (usually 20 times the table limit will get you noticed outside).

After that, bet the table limit on a couple of hands. You will notice the croupier taking your name down and discreetly signalling to the pit boss.

Assuming you sit there for 4 to 6 hours (so that the pit boss can have enough time to observe your play) and bet half to the entire table limit for almost every hand, you will get a very quiet upgrade to a fairly decent VIP level.

This is a lot easier than sitting at the high limit table, betting the whole night and accumulating points. At the high limit table, your bet would be relatively modest and the pit boss might not even notice you.

Also most casinos have all sort of rules saying that you must play so much to maintain your VIP status. That's actually bullshit because no casino would actually downgrade your card for fear of offending you. if you have a pit boss vouching that he has seen you play $500 to $1000 hands for a 4 to 6 hours period, they would rather woo you as a customer than do something which will cause you to go gamble somewhere else.

Please note however VIP status is not the same as signing up for a junket and promising you will play x amount. If you sign up for such a junket, they will measure and claw back the comps if you fail to play the agreed time and amount.

 

[silverfox@]

Ya bro silverfox,

That why I alway play Baccarat & Blackjack in High Limit section to clock more points. Normally I sit in min $200 or min $300 Baccarat light-blue tables in front of the Cage Cashier,
I think the pit managers did check how much I bet per hand & recorded down

Of course I am not a high roller but my bet is still quite substantial comparing to people gambling outside
(min $25, $50 or $100)

Thinking of entering Ruby Room.. this evening to see see look look first

Genting casino in malaysia and Genting RWS and Marina Bay Sands work very differently in terms of membership recruitment.

In malaysia, they are quite aggressive and upgrade your card easily, will call you when coming down, give perks like limousine service, free chips like $3000 nn chips to play roulette.

In RWS, maybe the pit managers not that experienced and less aggressive.

MBS also very bo chup. We don't have the membership card, they also never ask us to sign up. Not to even talk about upgrade. When you are winning the whole table wiping their chips, they monitor closely on their dealer and see whether got give wrong chips or wrong result payout. Got 1 time dealer come over, play 4 hands only, they changed dealer because the dealer keep busting for 4 hands.

But anyway the membership not really very bothered about it because ultimately is to win their money over.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

hi bro aurvandil,

I did what you said when playing outside. Go to a Baccarat table (min $50) change $2,000 cash and play with an average bet of $200 per hand sometimes $1,000 per hand

No use .. for a 2 hours of play at the same table earned 3 points :o

But I changed $5,000 cash in High Limit Baccarat tables with an average bet $500 per hand consistently.. my name is immediately recorded by the pit boss.

Then a lady PRO asking me whether I want to join Paiza members. I am too scare to ask for more details because I am afraid the lady PRO will ask to deposit a hugh sum of money with them.

Pit Supervisor generally not as hardworking as the ones inside the High Limit section. Fat lady pit boss are often seen chatting leisurely with dealers and not recording or inputing points for members.

Occasionally if I do hit a big one & happy with the services of the dealers, I do tipped than like $25~$100 both outside & inside the High Limit section before they change tables.

 

[silverfox@]

hi bro aurvandil,

I did what you said when playing outside. Go to a Baccarat table (min $50) change $2,000 cash and play with an average bet of $200 per hand sometimes $1,000 per hand

No use .. for a 2 hours of play at the same table earned 3 points :o

But I changed $5,000 cash in High Limit Baccarat tables with an average bet $500 per hand consistently.. my name is immediately recorded by the pit boss.

Then a lady PRO asking me whether I want to join Paiza members. I am too scare to ask for more details because I am afraid the lady PRO will ask to deposit a hugh sum of money with them.

Pit Supervisor generally not as hardworking as the ones inside the High Limit section. Fat lady pit boss are often seen chatting leisurely with dealers and not recording or inputing points for members.

Occasionally if I do hit a big one & happy with the services of the dealers, I do tipped than like $25~$100 both outside & inside the High Limit section before they change tables.

I remember that my mum was playing blackjack on the same table as me. played about 1hr plus, she told me only 6-7pts. I think maybe that's why I also didn't bother go and register for one.

Baccarat comp points lesser than Blackjack because the gameflow is very very slow due to the player stealing glances at their cards. Waste of time. Genting Malaysia baccarat more fun, though need pay B6, but faster as its mini baccarat version. 1 hour can deal 50-60 hands

 

[aurvandil]

hi bro aurvandil,

I did what you said when playing outside. Go to a Baccarat table (min $50) change $2,000 cash and play with an average bet of $200 per hand sometimes $1,000 per hand

No use .. for a 2 hours of play at the same table earned 3 points :o

But I changed $5,000 cash in High Limit Baccarat tables with an average bet $500 per hand consistently.. my name is immediately recorded by the pit boss.

Then a lady PRO asking me whether I want to join Paiza members. I am too scare to ask for more details because I am afraid the lady PRO will ask to deposit a hugh sum of money with them.

Pit Supervisor generally not as hardworking as the ones inside the High Limit section. Fat lady pit boss are often seen chatting leisurely with dealers and not recording or inputing points for members.

Occasionally if I do hit a big one & happy with the services of the dealers, I do tipped than like $25~$100 both outside & inside the High Limit section before they change tables.

I have not been to RWS and MBS as I refuse to pay the levy. Based on what many have written, the service is obviously not as good as the mature casinos around the region.

In any case, it is about making an impression. If you are going to play $500 to $1k per hand, don't be shy and change just $2k. Drop $20k to $30k on the table. If you are changing such a large amount of chips, the pit boss will definitely walk over, approve the transaction and thus notice you.

Aslo if you did what I wrote above in Genting Malaysia, you see how fast they upgrade you to a Gold card or above.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Genting casino in malaysia and Genting RWS and Marina Bay Sands work very differently in terms of membership recruitment.

In malaysia, they are quite aggressive and upgrade your card easily, will call you when coming down, give perks like limousine service, free chips like $3000 nn chips to play roulette.

In RWS, maybe the pit managers not that experienced and less aggressive.

MBS also very bo chup. We don't have the membership card, they also never ask us to sign up. Not to even talk about upgrade. When you are winning the whole table wiping their chips, they monitor closely on their dealer and see whether got give wrong chips or wrong result payout. Got 1 time dealer come over, play 4 hands only, they changed dealer because the dealer keep busting for 4 hands.

But anyway the membership not really very bothered about it because ultimately is to win their money over.

Ya .. you are right.

MBS pit boss do monitor closely on their dealers and often changed dealers if they fared badly. One occasion I bet $225 on a standard 5% BANKER win commission Baccarat table inside High Limit section, the male dealer was slow in paying out the $213.75 that I had won. The lady pit slow washed him & even told that the per unit bet is $100.

In RWS, I felt this casino is already quite run down maybe Maxim Club (level 2) is different.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

I remember that my mum was playing blackjack on the same table as me. played about 1hr plus, she told me only 6-7pts. I think maybe that's why I also didn't bother go and register for one.

Baccarat comp points lesser than Blackjack because the gameflow is very very slow due to the player stealing glances at their cards. Waste of time. Genting Malaysia baccarat more fun, though need pay B6, but faster as its mini baccarat version. 1 hour can deal 50-60 hands

Yap ...

In RWS, there are electronic machines Non-Commission Baccarat (Face Up)
for every $500 bet a B6 win means a payout of only $250. I ever hit B6 four times in one session of play.

I think you are a BlackJack King or call you Mr BlackJack

 

[Heart Break Kid]

I have not been to RWS and MBS as I refuse to pay the levy. Based on what many have written, the service is obviously not as good as the mature casinos around the region.

In any case, it is about making an impression. If you are going to play $500 to $1k per hand, don't be shy and change just $2k. Drop $20k to $30k on the table. If you are changing such a large amount of chips, the pit boss will definitely walk over, approve the transaction and thus notice you.

Aslo if you did what I wrote above in Genting Malaysia, you see how fast they upgrade you to a Gold card or above.

To date.. I have not changed amount like $20k or $30k yet but I hope that I can enter Paiza VIP room for viewing only

 

[silverfox@]

I have not been to RWS and MBS as I refuse to pay the levy. Based on what many have written, the service is obviously not as good as the mature casinos around the region.

In any case, it is about making an impression. If you are going to play $500 to $1k per hand, don't be shy and change just $2k. Drop $20k to $30k on the table. If you are changing such a large amount of chips, the pit boss will definitely walk over, approve the transaction and thus notice you.

Aslo if you did what I wrote above in Genting Malaysia, you see how fast they upgrade you to a Gold card or above.

Like what you said mature casinos around the region, so that's why their service is not comparable to mature casinos. But due to this non comparable service, the dealers do make mistakes.

And every trip I go, I emphasize on EVERY, the dealer does a wrong payout. :o They payout more than they supposed to.

Genting gives free room. And free chips for roulette. $3000nn chips. I have to go outside and sell to another gambler for $2500 to get back cold hard cash.

To be honest for people who want to gamble, paying $100 or $2000 for levy does not deter them from stepping into casino. If there is no levy, there will be a lot of people who just go into the casino and crowd around, see and not gamble.

 

[jw5]

Have any of you encountered people sticking their membership cards without even asking in the slot machine while you are playing the slots?
I get that when I'm playing the slots in Macau, from chinamen.
Most of the time, I will stop my game, collect my credits and walk away, leaving the card still in the machine, regardless whether the chinaman is still around or not.