Can I persuade you all to get dual citizenship?

[chupacabra]

Thats what I ask myself too. Most got correspondent degrees. Some of them say they just wanna casual work or gain experience. But I told them to better start working in the line that they were educated in. Or else waste their parents money. Had a sri lankan pr who studied in monash, came back no one wants to hire him. In the end work at Carrefour earning $1300. Really unbelievable. But there was one retiree with masters who come out to work because of underestimating his retirement cost.
The chinese uncle in his 60s ask for kitchen job. I gave him 3 days trial with pay because I wanted to see if he can tahan the hot kitchen. He gave up a few hours into the job. Feel sad for him. I dunno why.

 

[littlefish]

my point is : please dont go about ridiculing people that do not want to migrate. they have their reasons. 1 reason is that they could be doing better than you in sg.

You know, people who have been in prison for a lengthy time also crave for the familiarity of prison life when they are released. A lot of these people are no longer able to integrate back into the real world after serving out their sentence.

In Singapore, you may feel very comfortable and everything is convenient but that still doesn't hide the fact that you are still living in a prison-like environment. Imagine that you are only able to spend time outside of Singapore during weekends, public holidays and your annual leave. During the short time outside of Singapore, don't you always heave a sigh of relief when you return? Do you know why this is so? That is because there is no other place quite like Singapore. What if you can go to another bigger country that makes you feel like home too? What if you can easily drive to a deserted beach half an hour from your home? What if you can get a great view from your house everyday without having to catch a plane ride? What if you can drive to the ski slopes every weekend during the winter season? What if you realise you don't need to swelter under the hot sun everyday? What if you know you can grow flowers, vegetables and fruits in your own garden? What if you are not expected to work overtime and if you do, you can expect to be compensated fairly? What if you realise that your endless pursuit of wealth is in fact for the sake of achieving the above?

If you have lived in other countries but still decided to make Singapore your home, then good on you. My concern is that there are literally millions of Singaporeans who have never done so but are forced to call Singapore home. Among them, there are many who have been brainwashed by the PAP to believe Singapore is the best place for them. Why do I say so? Because during my school days, my teachers would never fail to remind us of how lucky we were to be born in Singapore. If you have never ventured forth, how would you know what would be best for you? There is no way for you to compare if you have never experienced other choices. There is no better time than now to explore your options. The borders have never been more open. Don't live with the regret of asking "what if" when it is too late. If you have never harboured intentions of leaving Singapore, then great, you can continue with your life in Singapore. This thread (and probably most of the forum) is aimed at those who feel dissatisfied with life in Singapore and want to look at other options.

 

[ZorrorroZ]

You know, people who have been in prison for a lengthy time also crave for the familiarity of prison life when they are released. A lot of these people are no longer able to integrate back into the real world after serving out their sentence.

In Singapore, you may feel very comfortable and everything is convenient but that still doesn't hide the fact that you are still living in a prison-like environment. Imagine that you are only able to spend time outside of Singapore during weekends, public holidays and your annual leave. During the short time outside of Singapore, don't you always heave a sigh of relief when you return? Do you know why this is so? That is because there is no other place quite like Singapore. What if you can go to another bigger country that makes you feel like home too? What if you can easily drive to a deserted beach half an hour from your home? What if you can get a great view from your house everyday without having to catch a plane ride? What if you can drive to the ski slopes every weekend during the winter season? What if you realise you don't need to swelter under the hot sun everyday? What if you know you can grow flowers, vegetables and fruits in your own garden? What if you are not expected to work overtime and if you do, you can expect to be compensated fairly? What if you realise that your endless pursuit of wealth is in fact for the sake of achieving the above?

If you have lived in other countries but still decided to make Singapore your home, then good on you. My concern is that there are literally millions of Singaporeans who have never done so but are forced to call Singapore home. Among them, there are many who have been brainwashed by the PAP to believe Singapore is the best place for them. Why do I say so? Because during my school days, my teachers would never fail to remind us of how lucky we were to be born in Singapore. If you have never ventured forth, how would you know what would be best for you? There is no way for you to compare if you have never experienced other choices. There is no better time than now to explore your options. The borders have never been more open. Don't live with the regret of asking "what if" when it is too late. If you have never harboured intentions of leaving Singapore, then great, you can continue with your life in Singapore. This thread (and probably most of the forum) is aimed at those who feel dissatisfied with life in Singapore and want to look at other options.

I am someone who used to be in this category. I was of the generation who was fully brainwashed by PAP that Singapore is the only safest place in the universe; and everywhere else the big, bad, ugly, dangerous world. When my relatives migrated more than 20years ago to AU, they also invited to sponsor me to join them. Due to my total loyalty to Singapore, I rejected their offers at the time, and tried to succeed here. Whilst my relatives and thei children prospered in AU, I attained some level of mediocre success here, but costs of living here have spiraled out of control, and now I am just barely staying afloat. I have a degree and a couple of decades of experience in my field of work, but I can't see myself getting financially independent here. I fear even worse now for my children.

I managed to do some travelling over the course of the last decade, mainly for work related purposes, and realised that the world out there is not totally as described by the PAP. There are pretty wonderful things out there, as well as sordid things. It's how we adapt, no matter where we are. But I woke up and realised that Singapore is not the be all for our future. I was able to find better potentials of living good lives in a few other countries as well. And, for various reasons, I have chosen Australia as my next stopover for life's adventure. And, hopefully, this time next year, I can write to this forum via from Down Under.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, I do acknowledge that I am biased. What I am driving at is wider options and not zero sum gain. You can have best of both worlds.

Btw why did you assume others are doing better than me. It seems to suggest that those who can't make it in Singapore can make it in a 1st world country. Seems silly.

Those who have been in this forum as long as I, would have guessed that I am very comfortable finance and asset wise, move in "interesting" circles, never ever owned a HDB or HUDC flat but everything else. Material wise I have and get everything else I want in Singapore at the blink of an eye.

Here is story that started that journey. One day, a young chap with a Singaporean name gave a presentation but he spoke with a Western accent, very articulate, confident and held himself very well amongst AngMos and his boss was also an AngMo and he worked for an MNCs. I was curious and asked around. He was the son of a local magistrate and his parents sent him early to boarding school in Australia. He was not the first. Overtime I had come to know of kids of the elite being sent early in their schooling life sometimes with mum in tow. Some are children of MPs, senior civil servants and captains of industry. Lawyers and doctors are also in the game.

As you would have guessed by now, SPH cannot carry stories of this nature. Old man gets upset with these things. He wants every Singaporean kid in Govt school and they cannot go to an International School in Singapore. Exceptions have to be given by MOE.

I then found nearly 18 years ago that family members of political and civil service elites holding dual citizenship. I then realised that this is not against the law and there is no law prohibiting it. You saw the comments when people found out that a cabinet minister's sons and daughter were holding dual citizenships.

If you stayed in Redhill or Macpherson and you had all the money in the world, you would naturally move to Holland Road vicinity. Why? You could comfortably live in Redhill. Moving to Holland Rd is easy but there is still some level of apprehension as the neighbours might not be nice to you if they know that you came from Redhill. You are not sure if your car is suitable for the neighbourhood. These are all fear factors that become many fold when you move to Ang Mo land.

1) All the countries that I suggested as destination countries are 1st world ( Holland Road and not Farrer Park). All of them have comprehensive safety net except the US. That means that if you falter, you do not have to lose your dignity before receiving help. And help is provided as a matter of right.

2) This is the best investment that you can give your kids. There is no other place that they can reach their full potential. The culture, the lifestyle and the opportunities are immense. Thousands of PRCs flood to the US, UK, OZ etc and they will be ahead of us. Only the second rate ones and the prostitues land in Singapore. The smart ones take our scholarship and then head west. They all can't be wrong. We fly to first world countries for our holidays for a reason.

3) It is easier to start a business in 1st world countries because of easy funding from govt schemes, much cheaper rent etc. Many who leave the 3rd world are not academically qualified so they go over for business. In Singapore, rental are really high and the environment is tough. Our Businessmen to survive now move to Indonesia, Thailand etc.

4) We used to laugh at people from the South East Asia, Asia, Africa, Latin America and the rest of the 3rd world as Singapore was a sparking diamond within 20 years of independence and we could do no wrong. Those times have disappeared. We now have educated people from these countries, crowding a tiny island, pissing in MRT trains, shouting, and you do have to admit that it getting worse and not any better. Interestingly the really good ones from these crumbling and corrupt countries are heading west. The 1st generation of PRC migrants to the West will be ahead of your kids.

The point is very clear. If you and your family are living in the Silicon Valley, Yarra, Chelsea etc, I must be bloody mad to even suggest that you consider uprooting.

If you tell a chap from the West including expats who work here that you are financially well, asset rich and your family has everything in SIngapore, they will smile, agree with you and laugh behind your back. Singapore is like MacDonalds. Very efficient, clean, well maintained, hugely profitable, and well branded. The whole world knows about Singapore as they know MacDonalds. Here is the stinger - no Ivy league or Oxbridge scholar will be caught dead working in MacDOnalds even in a Senior Management Position unless they own a francise. I leave it to you guess why. And it has nothing to do with money.

Sorry to be harsh but the hard fact is that you are comfortable, you fear change, you are not sure you can stand among the Ang Mos, you fear you can't make it. The kids I can assure you are very adaptable. Its us adults that fear losing face.

Naturally if you pass that age, you can only consider retirement or starting a business when you go over but do consider your kids and other besides yourself.

mr scroobal,

i am a silent reader here most of the time. i find that what you describe about the push & pull factors are very very 1 sided.

let me quote myself as an example. i have never never thought of migrating from singapore before. my reasons are simple, there are simply no reason at all for me to go. i have a 5-figure mthly salary, i have a 6-figure savings account, i stay in pte property, i own a car, i have 2 school going kids. most important of all, all my immediate family, friends etc are all in singapore. and yes i do vote for the opposition every single time.

it absolutely makes no sense for me to give up everything here just to 'prove' to anyone that i am not afraid of taking risks, mixing with foreigners, look for new house, new employment etc. there are things which are not right in sg now in my opinion. pap selling us out, too many foreigners etc. but why should we go because of them? they are the one that should get lost.

my point is : please dont go about ridiculing people that do not want to migrate. they have their reasons. 1 reason is that they could be doing better than you in sg.

 

[ashjaw]

WOW, well said. I have to applaud you for that.

We have a 6 figure savings, then 7....
Now, who's next with an EIGHT figure savings?

Have you thought about the long term viability of Singapore given its location, lack of resources, lack of a hinterland, lack of the ability to conduct defense in depth should instability set in?

Have you considered the fact that the racial mix in Singapore itself is a smoldering powder keg and that racial tensions run high just below the facade of "racial harmony"?

Do you also realise that if all your assets are in Singapore, you're literally putting all your eggs in one basket and that they could plunge in value should Singapore falter?

"Doing Better" is a fleeting condition. 5 figure salaries can vapourise in 24 hours. 6 figure savings can be wiped out by serious illness.

I was in the same comfortable situation as you when I left 15 years ago. Cashing out is best done when you're well ahead of the game and not when the chips are down.

I had to sacrifice long standing bonds, friendships, business alliances etc but I did it for the sake of the long term interests of my family. They can now survive comfortably if I get run over by a truck tomorrow morning and if the whole family wakes up next week with cancer of kidney failure, I have complete confidence that our SEVEN figure savings won't have to be touched to fund the treatment.

 

[wuqi256]

Have you thought about the long term viability of Singapore given its location, lack of resources, lack of a hinterland, lack of the ability to conduct defense in depth should instability set in?

Have you considered the fact that the racial mix in Singapore itself is a smoldering powder keg and that racial tensions run high just below the facade of "racial harmony"?

Do you also realise that if all your assets are in Singapore, you're literally putting all your eggs in one basket and that they could plunge in value should Singapore falter?

"Doing Better" is a fleeting condition. 5 figure salaries can vapourise in 24 hours. 6 figure savings can be wiped out by serious illness.
I was in the same comfortable situation as you when I left 15 years ago. Cashing out is best done when you're well ahead of the game and not when the chips are down.

I had to sacrifice long standing bonds, friendships, business alliances etc but I did it for the sake of the long term interests of my family. They can now survive comfortably if I get run over by a truck tomorrow morning and if the whole family wakes up next week with cancer of kidney failure, I have complete confidence that our SEVEN figure savings won't have to be touched to fund the treatment.

Agree, many people think things will always stay the same. There is a saying 居安思危, literally "be prepared for danger in times of peace"
Things could very easily go south.

 

[Fook Seng]

mr scroobal,

i am a silent reader here most of the time. i find that what you describe about the push & pull factors are very very 1 sided.

my point is : please dont go about ridiculing people that do not want to migrate. they have their reasons. 1 reason is that they could be doing better than you in sg.

Nicely put. Exactly my sentiments. And when you talk with close friends who migrated, they reveal the true reasons for their decisions that have not been brought out here e.g.
1) I migrate for the better education - meaning my kids cannot cope with his studies and probably cannot make it to tertiary here
2) Diminishing market value - need to find new opening, even a cleaner or waiter job will do, as long as it pays
3) The pull of friends or relatives who had migrated earlier and are now feeling lonely and yearning for greater company. Even for people who are extrovert and mix well with the locals, they still feel closer to people from their hometown
4) More of the push factors than pull factors but justification pull factors are often quoted.

 

[Leongsam]

WOW, well said. I have to applaud you for that.

We have a 6 figure savings, then 7....
Now, who's next with an EIGHT figure savings?

Had I stayed on in Singapore, I would never have reached 7 figures.

 

[Papsmearer]

What you say is true about a the value of Singapore passport, I cannot deny that this deluge of foreigners has cheapened its sentimental value. However I do look at things from an extreme financial point of view, nothing to do with a Kiasu attitude.

But if you insist, I have many Brit friends who have been Oz for decades but still keep UK and Aus citizenships, they must be PAP indoctrinated and kiasu as well. My my, how far the tentacles of PAP have stretched out...

That being said nothing is for certain, only change as well as circumstances.

Please, when u come and debate here, bring your brain. UK and Australia allow dual citizenships. Therefore, there is no legal obligation for your Brit friends to give up their UK citizenship when they take up an Aussie one. On the other hand dual citizenship is illegal in Singapore. The SIngapore law is very clear on this. If you hold a citizenship of another country, u must give up your singapore one. The fact u are still holding on to a singapore passport supports my assertion u are still a kiasu sinkie, and advising people to break the singapore law.

 

[Fook Seng]

Bro, I do acknowledge that I am biased. What I am driving at is wider options and not zero sum gain. You can have best of both worlds.

Btw why did you assume others are doing better than me. It seems to suggest that those who can't make it in Singapore can make it in a 1st world country. Seems silly.

Those who have been in this forum as long as I, would have guessed that I am very comfortable finance and asset wise, move in "interesting" circles, never ever owned a HDB or HUDC flat but everything else. Material wise I have and get everything else I want in Singapore at the blink of an eye.

Here is story that started that journey. One day, a young chap with a Singaporean name gave a presentation but he spoke with a Western accent, very articulate, confident and held himself very well amongst AngMos and his boss was also an AngMo and he worked for an MNCs. I was curious and asked around. He was the son of a local magistrate and his parents sent him early to boarding school in Australia.

Most of the PRCs' and other Asians' preferred destination is the United States which they look upon as the land of opportunities, not Australia or NZ which are more for retirees. They know that they have to work very hard but they will reap great rewards in the US. For Sinkies, they look for somewhere easy. As I have said in earlier posts, if you are financially strong to be mobile, nothing can stop you from experiencing a new lifestyle. But to people who need to sell their homes to migrate there is a trade-off to consider.

 

[Papsmearer]

You know, people who have been in prison for a lengthy time also crave for the familiarity of prison life when they are released. A lot of these people are no longer able to integrate back into the real world after serving out their sentence.

In Singapore, you may feel very comfortable and everything is convenient but that still doesn't hide the fact that you are still living in a prison-like environment. Imagine that you are only able to spend time outside of Singapore during weekends, public holidays and your annual leave. During the short time outside of Singapore, don't you always heave a sigh of relief when you return? Do you know why this is so? That is because there is no other place quite like Singapore. What if you can go to another bigger country that makes you feel like home too? What if you can easily drive to a deserted beach half an hour from your home? What if you can get a great view from your house everyday without having to catch a plane ride? What if you can drive to the ski slopes every weekend during the winter season? What if you realise you don't need to swelter under the hot sun everyday? What if you know you can grow flowers, vegetables and fruits in your own garden? What if you are not expected to work overtime and if you do, you can expect to be compensated fairly? What if you realise that your endless pursuit of wealth is in fact for the sake of achieving the above?

If you have lived in other countries but still decided to make Singapore your home, then good on you. My concern is that there are literally millions of Singaporeans who have never done so but are forced to call Singapore home. Among them, there are many who have been brainwashed by the PAP to believe Singapore is the best place for them. Why do I say so? Because during my school days, my teachers would never fail to remind us of how lucky we were to be born in Singapore. If you have never ventured forth, how would you know what would be best for you? There is no way for you to compare if you have never experienced other choices. There is no better time than now to explore your options. The borders have never been more open. Don't live with the regret of asking "what if" when it is too late. If you have never harboured intentions of leaving Singapore, then great, you can continue with your life in Singapore. This thread (and probably most of the forum) is aimed at those who feel dissatisfied with life in Singapore and want to look at other options.

I think your last para speaks volumes about the singapore education system. In my opinion, its one of the worse systems in the industrialised first world. Not for what it teaches but for what it does not teach. It does not open up the minds of the students to other possibilities. U are right, its basically an indoctrination for the PAP. It does not teach the constitution of singapore, and does not teach the students their rights. Of course, the curriculum is handed down by MOE, and has a strong PAP bias.

 

[Fook Seng]

Have you thought about the long term viability of Singapore given its location, lack of resources, lack of a hinterland, lack of the ability to conduct defense in depth should instability set in?

You made your decision 15 years ago when the West was in ascension. It looks like there could be a change in pecking order in the world economy. The problems faced by the West today could very well be structural problems in the system

 

[Fook Seng]

Had I stayed on in Singapore, I would never have reached 7 figures.

Don't be modest. A lot of people achieve 7 figures.

 

[Cruxx]

Don't be modest. A lot of people achieve 7 figures.

Sinkieland is after all the country with the highest density of millionaires.

 

[scroobal]

Read my posts carefully. No issues which 1st world countries they go to. No PRC or Indian will come to Singapore if he has an opportunity in a 1st world country.

Most of the PRCs' and other Asians' preferred destination is the United States which they look upon as the land of opportunities, not Australia or NZ which are more for retirees. They know that they have to work very hard but they will reap great rewards in the US. For Sinkies, they look for somewhere easy. As I have said in earlier posts, if you are financially strong to be mobile, nothing can stop you from experiencing a new lifestyle. But to people who need to sell their homes to migrate there is a trade-off to consider.

 

[citizen2116]

ICA still has the final say to let you keep your dual citizenship or offer the one way street of renunciation. Wonder how many declare the truth and are pleasantly surprise?

 

[Leongsam]

You made your decision 15 years ago when the West was in ascension. It looks like there could be a change in pecking order in the world economy. The problems faced by the West today could very well be structural problems in the system

"The West" isn't a single homogeneous entity. LKY and other Asian Tyrants conjured up the term in order to galvanise the peasants into viewing "the West" as a common enemy of their dictatorial regimes.

There is no common "Western System" either.

I'm no economist and I'm no expert on all things West. However, I see nothing structurally wrong with the OZ system or the NZ system which I am familiar with. Like all systems, it will need fine tuning with regards to things like retirement age but it can hardly be described as less robust than the Singapore system which has it's own set of flaws.

The problems facing "the West" that you're referring to are primarily with basket case economies which have always been that way. The mistake was to rope them into a currency union with much stronger economies. It left them with no control over monetary policy.

My view now is that NZ and OZ are more attractive now compared to sinkieland than they would have been 15 years ago when Singapore was still a manufacturing hub. Any country that needs casinos and mass, uncontrolled immigration to stay afloat has to be in big trouble. I can't think of any clearer signs that the ship is sinking.

 

[Froggy]

Hello everyone here. I feel shy to come in here because everyone is talking about "First World Country" but I reside in a 3rd world country, Thailand. Anyway I am not talking about immigration yet but the thought did cross my mind a few times for the simple reason that one can buy landed property here using one's own name. Because I am very well entrenched here and love this place I am sure I will be living here forever. One thing that make me hesitate for now is Thai passport is still pretty inconvenient for my business as very often I need to travel in short notice and applying visa is requires time.

Coming back to the topic I just wanna say that 3rd world countries has many advantages too for Singaporean to establish themselves with a successful career and or business as they need people like us whom are more "westernised" and well traveled or even educated in English. Of course 3rd world countries cannot be compared with 1st world in things like social benefits but fuck, Singapore does not have this either and called itself 1st world. So 3rd world is like you got to take care of yourself like in Singapore but what you make is what you get to keep. Also forget about landed property here which cannot be directly owned by foreigners however you can get a nice condo at prices less than HDB no problem with all facilities.

What I am saying is 3rd world countries can also consider for people who want to make a move.