Can I persuade you all to get dual citizenship?

[scroobal]

Good for you.

The lady who was in the pioneer batch of gifted programme teachers selected for their zeal, intelligence and high motivation migrated to NZ with her Poly lecturer husband. When you deal with great minds, you start thinking.

Everyone must have a shot.

You make a great point. People may not realize it now but the G7 and other highly industrialized societies of the world will be facing a slowly growing shortage of SKILLED labour in the years to come.

It will become easier to emigrate as the years go by.

This thread by Scroobal got me thinking very hard. I think its time to get something started before I grow too old. New Zealand will be my first choice. Don't ask me why. Maybe the thought of being surrounded by sheep will remind me of home :-)

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Yes, I know that but for those who intent to migrate to the countries mentioned, they are considered 1st world for now. We might know before March 2012 I guess. Even Canada may not be spared.:(

Doesn't matter whether 1st world or 2nd world or out of this world. What matters is:

(a) you can have a shelter over your head & dignity of life without mortgaging 20-30 yrs of your most productive years to the PAP government

(b) you have opportunity to meet new people, expand your horizons, express yourself freely

(c) society allows you to work and be rewarded for your effort, and expand yourself in whatever way you want, and does not treat you like an economic digit

My second choice is canada :-) :-)

 

[QXD]

Do your sums carefully and there is no need to use CPF to start a new life abroad.

If one has to factor in CPF before migrating, then it is either their financial position, earning potential or career prospects are too weak to transition into the entirely new system of their adopted country.

Calling this backdoor is simply placing a stigma onto something that is fast becoming a non-issue. And I don't tikam, I am just a lot more realistic of how one can best deploy their abilities without having to pay a heavy price for it.

Call it as what business people would, call it Diversification, Hedging or Systemic Risk Aversion.

For years PAP has been bullshitting to Singaporeans to be loyal while on the other they stab Singaporeans in the back by rewarding themselves handsomely for crafting policies that screw Singaporeans.

To me, Singapore passport has it's value, Australia is where I live, but then my home is where my heart is, and that's my family and that's what's most important.

This is bad advice, If you want to move to another country and take up PR there or citizenship there, you must go all in. Its not tekum tekum time or I will still keep my singapore passport just in case time. People who do not do this are more likely to fail in their adopted country. Why? Because they always treat their singapore passport as an escape clause and safety net. If u give up your sinkie citizenship, not only will u start with more money due to your ability to withdraw your CPF, u are forced to make it in your new country. There is no turning back. U will have to do what it takes to succeed in your new country.

 

[Papsmearer]

Do your sums carefully and there is no need to use CPF to start a new life abroad.

If one has to factor in CPF before migrating, then it is either their financial position, earning potential or career prospects are too weak to transition into the entirely new system of their adopted country.

Calling this backdoor is simply placing a stigma onto something that is fast becoming a non-issue. And I don't tikam, I am just a lot more realistic of how one can best deploy their abilities without having to pay a heavy price for it. People who don't factor CPF in are just kiasu idiots. Why would you even leaveit in singapore for the PAP to pay you 2.5% while they make 16% off your money? Is that a smart business decision. Bringing your CPF over to the new country mean in many cases a better quality of life. If u do not understand this simple fact, u have not done your sums. Bringing your CPF over allows u to perhaps buy a car without a loan, or buy a house without a mortgage. If u want to borrow to buy a house, for the same amount of mortgage, your CPF used as a down payment, will get u a nicer house.

U have missed the total point of this thread. Life is short. U can spend it in S'pore with all its problems, pressures and bullshit, or u can have a better quality of life overseas for yourself and your family. Whether u want to admit it or not $250K in CPF goes a long way to enjoying life in the new country. I am not saying to spend it on frivolous things, but having your money there buys u a lot more than in singapore.

Call it as what business people would, call it Diversification, Hedging or Systemic Risk Aversion.

For years PAP has been bullshitting to Singaporeans to be loyal while on the other they stab Singaporeans in the back by rewarding themselves handsomely for crafting policies that screw Singaporeans.

To me, Singapore passport has it's value, Australia is where I live, but then my home is where my heart is, and that's my family and that's what's most important.

I can see the PAP indoctrination has worked well in you. The kiasu attitude still persists in you. U look at the immigration issue like a business decision i.e. diversification, hedging, systemic risk aversion etc. What kind of bullshit are u saying, singapore passport has value? And what, the Aussie passport has NO value? Singapore passport so valuable meh? Every tom dick and harry fake FT or prostitute from China, India, Vietnam, etc. is getting one or being given one nowadays. I would say the Aussie passport is harder to get and hence more valuable.

 

[Fook Seng]

Sorry, but there are at least a half a million migrant FTs in Singapore who would beg to differ, once they have the time to look away from their jobs that could have gone to a Singaporean.

Interesting how your idea of migration is more like seeking refugee status or asylum.

That is exactly what I think you are trying to advocate. The same thinking that will invalidate the ballot paper instead of voting for change. This is a typical sinkie behavior.

 

[Fook Seng]

I read your posts very clearly. That is why I stated - "Do not find excuses. Be strong."

I have heard all the excuses including "my dog cannot pass quarantine". The best one I heard about 3 years ago is that "my parents Golden Jubliee will be around in a few years time and all my siblings and their spouses want to organise a surprise event." I told the woman you are not going to the moon.

Its all in the mind.

Sorry. You don't know me. I have already achieved what you hope to achieve elsewhere without being anyone to do with PAP.

 

[QXD]

What you say is true about a the value of Singapore passport, I cannot deny that this deluge of foreigners has cheapened its sentimental value. However I do look at things from an extreme financial point of view, nothing to do with a Kiasu attitude.

But if you insist, I have many Brit friends who have been Oz for decades but still keep UK and Aus citizenships, they must be PAP indoctrinated and kiasu as well. My my, how far the tentacles of PAP have stretched out...

That being said nothing is for certain, only change as well as circumstances.

I can see the PAP indoctrination has worked well in you. The kiasu attitude still persists in you. U look at the immigration issue like a business decision i.e. diversification, hedging, systemic risk aversion etc. What kind of bullshit are u saying, singapore passport has value? And what, the Aussie passport has NO value? Singapore passport so valuable meh? Every tom dick and harry fake FT or prostitute from China, India, Vietnam, etc. is getting one or being given one nowadays. I would say the Aussie passport is harder to get and hence more valuable.

 

[QXD]

Why would anyone want to know you?

Sorry. You don't know me. I have already achieved what you hope to achieve elsewhere without being anyone to do with PAP.

 

[Fook Seng]

I can see the PAP indoctrination has worked well in you. The kiasu attitude still persists in you. U look at the immigration issue like a business decision i.e. diversification, hedging, systemic risk aversion etc. What kind of bullshit are u saying, singapore passport has value? And what, the Aussie passport has NO value? Singapore passport so valuable meh? Every tom dick and harry fake FT or prostitute from China, India, Vietnam, etc. is getting one or being given one nowadays. I would say the Aussie passport is harder to get and hence more valuable.

I agree with you that you either do it totally or not at all and it is typical kiasu sinkie mentality to want to have the cake and eat it but ending with none. You would probably fail in your adopted country being so half-hearted and also find difficulty in returning.

 

[Leongsam]

I I told the woman you are not going to the moon.

It only takes 3 days to get back from the moon.

http://www.universetoday.com/13562/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-the-moon/

 

[wuqi256]

People really think everyone in the 20% who pays the most taxes in SG are happy? Earning 240k-350k SGD a year does not guarantee ones place above the clouds.

 

[QXD]

Yes, I advocate that change begins with the individual, and while it doesn't take as much guts as before to make the change, I don't have to put up with 5 years of nonsense before making a difference.

That is exactly what I think you are trying to advocate. The same thinking that will invalidate the ballot paper instead of voting for change. This is a typical sinkie behavior.

 

[wuqi256]

I can see the PAP indoctrination has worked well in you. The kiasu attitude still persists in you. U look at the immigration issue like a business decision i.e. diversification, hedging, systemic risk aversion etc. What kind of bullshit are u saying, singapore passport has value? And what, the Aussie passport has NO value? Singapore passport so valuable meh? Every tom dick and harry fake FT or prostitute from China, India, Vietnam, etc. is getting one or being given one nowadays. I would say the Aussie passport is harder to get and hence more valuable.

Friends told me that reason why more countries are now checking our passports more stringently these days is that almost every Tom Dick or Larry can just get it. If you are using the new country as a sort of hinterland, then probably still ok to hedge.

Once you decided to migrate, probably should do like Xiang Yu (Smashing the Cauldrons and Sinking the Boats). Basically succeed or bust.

 

[Spock]

its easy if u got the moolah$.

I will provide one method here. I learnt about it from my interactions with PRC immigrants, especially the not so well-off ones.

1) Sign up for some worthless diploma course that will provide you with something like a working student visa. There are many around and I have heard that it usually costs less than $10K SGD for 2-year visa, depending on the length of visa.
2) Use the visa to earn money for daily expenses and you can probably skip the classes.
3) Once you have enough savings, find a company that will pay you for a position that is qualified for migration. You will probably need to pay the company back part of your salary since you are asking the company to inflate your salary. You need savings because you will have to pay the taxes for your declared income.
4) Once you get the PR, you are free to do whatever you want.

I know of immigrants who get paid their salaries in cash and pay no taxes. They then sign up for some free study courses and get a student allowance from the government or claim for other benefits. The biggest cheating case I know of is a businessman who derives his income entirely in cash, pays no taxes, claims child support, rents a house near a top school so that his children can attend that school. AFAIK, that businessman is still doing the same thing and his monthly income easily exceeds $5K SGD.

 

[Leongsam]

I will provide one method here. I learnt about it from my interactions with PRC immigrants, especially the not so well-off ones.

This method is tried, true and tested.

Check out http://www.tda-visa.com/

The founder is a former immigration minister. He penned the rules so he certainly knows the loopholes. :p

He has various companies set up which provide "employment" for his clients. The "employees" are being paid with their own money collected up front as part of the consultancy fees.

I recommended this method to one of my sinkie ex colleagues who wanted to emigrate to NZ but didn't qualify under the skills program. In true sinkie fashion, he was too scared to get involved in devious schemes that skirt around laws. The PAP has trained sinkies well. They will stick only to paths that have street lights and are clearly signposted.

 

[Spock]

This method is tried, true and tested.

I recommended this method to one of my sinkie ex colleagues who wanted to emigrate to NZ but didn't qualify under the skills program. In true sinkie fashion, he was too scared to get involved in devious schemes that skirt around laws. The PAP has trained sinkies well. They will stick only to paths that have street lights and are clearly signposted.

The problem is that SGreans only want to queue at the front door. They do not realise that hundreds and thousands are using the back door, side doors and windows to get in. Once you are inside, nobody gives a damn how you got in in the first place. I am only putting this up for those who do not qualify or are facing a long wait at the front door but truly wished to get in. For those who do not qualify but will only consider the front door, they are not really suited for immigration because they will lose out to the real hungry immigrants.

 

[saratogas]

Can I target cheaper Nation... Like Malaysia, Thailand or Vietnam? Get a wife settle easier life...

 

[neddy]

This method is tried, true and tested.

Check out http://www.tda-visa.com/

The founder is a former immigration minister. He penned the rules so he certainly knows the loopholes. :p

He has various companies set up which provide "employment" for his clients. The "employees" are being paid with their own money collected up front as part of the consultancy fees.

I recommended this method to one of my sinkie ex colleagues who wanted to emigrate to NZ but didn't qualify under the skills program. In true sinkie fashion, he was too scared to get involved in devious schemes that skirt around laws. The PAP has trained sinkies well. They will stick only to paths that have street lights and are clearly signposted.

To some people , that is the low-class way to get a second passport.

I heard about such scheme in OZ as well, before the OZ govt decided to set up FEE-HELP (no more free graduate courses) and clean up the dodgy vocational training industry.

But judging on the number of Miss Korean students offering massage service, the genius of the OZ government remain.

Back to the NZ case as I understand ...

That ex-NZ minister is the one who remove the student quota of 400 ... I wonder why ????
Well, he may have acted within the very fringe law but not in the spirit of it.
His words gave that away when spoke of the "illegal" ways NZ govt deport overstaying Pacific Islanders from NZ.

But still, having SFO on his tail was his trophy of choice.
Another minister, Pansy Wong, was not so fortunate.

Once a public servant or elected member is on fraud watch, it is bad news even if they are not convicted.

 

[neddy]

The problem is that SGreans only want to queue at the front door. They do not realise that hundreds and thousands are using the back door, side doors and windows to get in. Once you are inside, nobody gives a damn how you got in in the first place. I am only putting this up for those who do not qualify or are facing a long wait at the front door but truly wished to get in. For those who do not qualify but will only consider the front door, they are not really suited for immigration because they will lose out to the real hungry immigrants.

And I wonder why Lebanese and Chinese still do not earn the respect of the adopted countrymen. Gold Pass, Healthcare Card, etc.
(OK, I am not innocent, but ...)
The Italian and Vietnamese are redeeeming themselves by moving into mainstream business.


I love driving in brightly-lit streets. It allows me to see better and keep me from running over drunks lying in the middle of the roads.
Of course, there are times when we drive into the dark unknown, but the destination has to worth the effort.

 

[Spock]

And I wonder why Lebanese and Chinese still do not earn the respect of the adopted countrymen. Gold Pass, Healthcare Card, etc.
(OK, I am not innocent, but ...)
The Italian and Vietnamese are redeeeming themselves by moving into mainstream business.


I love driving in brightly-lit streets. It allows me to see better and keep me from running over drunks lying in the middle of the roads.
Of course, there are times when we drive into the dark unknown, but the destination has to worth the effort.

Do you not know of many ang mohs who dodge the tax regimes by working overseas and then retiring in their home countries to enjoy the benefits? Are these cases not considered cheating the system as well? There are plenty of people belonging to the underclass who are cheating the system in ang moh countries and you will be surprised that the overwhelming majority are not immigrants. The rich and smart ones beat the system rather than cheat. I don't encourage cheating the system outright but if it is not stated you can't do something, there is no good reason preventing you from doing so if it benefits you.