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Calculating the odds .... from someone who knows what he is talking about

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
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Good Post by Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance). Provides clarity cos he is an actuarist (calculates risks of people dying or getting sick to calculate premiums to charge for insurance), it’s long but very sensible esp when it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus....

*COVID-19 – A psychological and an actuarial approach.*

There is a lot of fear of COVID-19 coronavirus. Largely, it is the fear of unknown, as this virus is new.

As Gandhi said, “The enemy is fear. We think it is hate; but, it is fear.”

As a trained psychologist and an actuary, and a student of crowd dynamics, I would like to bring a sense of perspective, different contexts and rationality into the discussion on COVID-19 to dispel fear.

As of 15 February, we have 1527 number of deaths in the last three months arising from 67,000 infections (99 % from China). These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed. This is how pandemics work. For me, the increase in numbers were not particularly alarming, as they look like arithmetic progressions rather than geometric progressions.

So we do not have to be paralysed by fear of these statistics. We can be rational, objective and calm in our our response because

1. In 2009, the H1N1 swine flu which emanated in USA caused 360,000 deaths (range 150,000 -575,000) in the first year – CDC/Lancet. And 762 million infections in the first year. (Science Alert). The fatality rate was 0.1 %. Were you panicking then?

2. Do you know according CDC (Center of Disease Control – USA) about 40,000 people die from seasonal flus worldwide monthly? Do you worry about dying from seasonal flus?

3. Do you know that according to WHO (World Health Organisation, a United Nations organization) on a worldwide basis,

• 65,000 die from HIV monthly
• 112,000 die from car accidents monthly
• 130,000 die from diabetes monthly, and an additional 185,000 die from high blood glucose monthly
• 250,000 die from alcoholism monthly
• 600,000 die from smoking monthly
• 1.5 m from heart disease monthly

Also, according to John Hopkins University, 20,000 die monthly from from Iatrogenic causes (medical errors) in USA alone!

Don’t you think you should worry more about the above causes of death, which are more threatening to you than COVID-19 and which you have a better control of?

Don’t you think it’s better and more productive to lose weight, have a balanced diet, exercise, drive safely, sleep well and do not imbibe too much alcohol than to worry about COVID-19 inappropriately?

But of course, I am not asking you to be reckless. I ask you to be responsible and do your part! See the MOH website.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...oh5m_english.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=762d32d8_1

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...irus/eng-jpg.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=396258d8_1

4. Current estimates of fatality rate of CPVID-19 is 1.5% to 2.5% but some scientists believe that eventually this rate will come closer to the swine flu of 0.1%. And PM Lee Hsien Loong implied that as well. Discovery of vaccines will of course reduce the rate to close to zero. And preliminary data suggest those who die are of vulnerable groups – those who are older and those who are already sick.

For comparison, mortality rates of Singaporeans

Age 50-54 0.376%
Age 55-59 0.619%
Age 60-64 1.318%

This mean if you are infected with nCOV-19, your chance of dying from it is quite close to a Singaporean person age 63 dying at the age of 63 of all causes. Does a 63-year-old man going around worrying he will die that year?

Please understand this. You have to get infected first. Your probability to get infected is very very low, and you can reduce this further. I will write in a separate posting on how you can reduce the rate of infection.

Photo Nut, [17.02.20 16:59]
Lastly, if you do get infected, I can recommend things you can do to strengthen your immune system. Sleep and intermittent fasting. And, l will write on this separately later as well!

One of the philosophers I admire is Bertrand Russell. He said

“Fear is the main source of superstition... To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.”

If you agree with my sentiments, please share my posting.
 
1581912445365.png
 
People who live in fear do not need statistics.

They survive on herd instincts.
 
"Lastly, if you do get infected, I can recommend things you can do to strengthen your immune system. Sleep and intermittent fasting."

Having healthy gut Flora / biome is another great way to keep your immunity up. We had the school milk program in the past, should start a school probiotic drink program now. Numerous benefits to having healthy gut bacteria.
 
Good Post by Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance). Provides clarity cos he is an actuarist (calculates risks of people dying or getting sick to calculate premiums to charge for insurance), it’s long but very sensible esp when it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus....

*COVID-19 – A psychological and an actuarial approach.*

There is a lot of fear of COVID-19 coronavirus. Largely, it is the fear of unknown, as this virus is new.

As Gandhi said, “The enemy is fear. We think it is hate; but, it is fear.”

As a trained psychologist and an actuary, and a student of crowd dynamics, I would like to bring a sense of perspective, different contexts and rationality into the discussion on COVID-19 to dispel fear.

As of 15 February, we have 1527 number of deaths in the last three months arising from 67,000 infections (99 % from China). These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed. This is how pandemics work. For me, the increase in numbers were not particularly alarming, as they look like arithmetic progressions rather than geometric progressions.

So we do not have to be paralysed by fear of these statistics. We can be rational, objective and calm in our our response because

1. In 2009, the H1N1 swine flu which emanated in USA caused 360,000 deaths (range 150,000 -575,000) in the first year – CDC/Lancet. And 762 million infections in the first year. (Science Alert). The fatality rate was 0.1 %. Were you panicking then?

2. Do you know according CDC (Center of Disease Control – USA) about 40,000 people die from seasonal flus worldwide monthly? Do you worry about dying from seasonal flus?

3. Do you know that according to WHO (World Health Organisation, a United Nations organization) on a worldwide basis,

• 65,000 die from HIV monthly
• 112,000 die from car accidents monthly
• 130,000 die from diabetes monthly, and an additional 185,000 die from high blood glucose monthly
• 250,000 die from alcoholism monthly
• 600,000 die from smoking monthly
• 1.5 m from heart disease monthly

Also, according to John Hopkins University, 20,000 die monthly from from Iatrogenic causes (medical errors) in USA alone!

Don’t you think you should worry more about the above causes of death, which are more threatening to you than COVID-19 and which you have a better control of?

Don’t you think it’s better and more productive to lose weight, have a balanced diet, exercise, drive safely, sleep well and do not imbibe too much alcohol than to worry about COVID-19 inappropriately?

But of course, I am not asking you to be reckless. I ask you to be responsible and do your part! See the MOH website.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...oh5m_english.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=762d32d8_1

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...irus/eng-jpg.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=396258d8_1

4. Current estimates of fatality rate of CPVID-19 is 1.5% to 2.5% but some scientists believe that eventually this rate will come closer to the swine flu of 0.1%. And PM Lee Hsien Loong implied that as well. Discovery of vaccines will of course reduce the rate to close to zero. And preliminary data suggest those who die are of vulnerable groups – those who are older and those who are already sick.

For comparison, mortality rates of Singaporeans

Age 50-54 0.376%
Age 55-59 0.619%
Age 60-64 1.318%

This mean if you are infected with nCOV-19, your chance of dying from it is quite close to a Singaporean person age 63 dying at the age of 63 of all causes. Does a 63-year-old man going around worrying he will die that year?

Please understand this. You have to get infected first. Your probability to get infected is very very low, and you can reduce this further. I will write in a separate posting on how you can reduce the rate of infection.

Photo Nut, [17.02.20 16:59]
Lastly, if you do get infected, I can recommend things you can do to strengthen your immune system. Sleep and intermittent fasting. And, l will write on this separately later as well!

One of the philosophers I admire is Bertrand Russell. He said

“Fear is the main source of superstition... To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.”

If you agree with my sentiments, please share my posting.
No. Actuarians cannot calculate the risks if there are no historical data. Their guess is as good as yours and mine. :rolleyes:
 
No. Actuarians cannot calculate the risks if there are no historical data. Their guess is as good as yours and mine. :rolleyes:

There is already a month's worth of data and even without an actuary a layman like me can already predict that this virus is no worse than seasonal flu.
 
Good Post by Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance). Provides clarity cos he is an actuarist (calculates risks of people dying or getting sick to calculate premiums to charge for insurance), it’s long but very sensible esp when it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus....

*COVID-19 – A psychological and an actuarial approach.*

There is a lot of fear of COVID-19 coronavirus. Largely, it is the fear of unknown, as this virus is new.

As Gandhi said, “The enemy is fear. We think it is hate; but, it is fear.”

As a trained psychologist and an actuary, and a student of crowd dynamics, I would like to bring a sense of perspective, different contexts and rationality into the discussion on COVID-19 to dispel fear.

As of 15 February, we have 1527 number of deaths in the last three months arising from 67,000 infections (99 % from China). These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed. This is how pandemics work. For me, the increase in numbers were not particularly alarming, as they look like arithmetic progressions rather than geometric progressions.

So we do not have to be paralysed by fear of these statistics. We can be rational, objective and calm in our our response because

1. In 2009, the H1N1 swine flu which emanated in USA caused 360,000 deaths (range 150,000 -575,000) in the first year – CDC/Lancet. And 762 million infections in the first year. (Science Alert). The fatality rate was 0.1 %. Were you panicking then?

2. Do you know according CDC (Center of Disease Control – USA) about 40,000 people die from seasonal flus worldwide monthly? Do you worry about dying from seasonal flus?

3. Do you know that according to WHO (World Health Organisation, a United Nations organization) on a worldwide basis,

• 65,000 die from HIV monthly
• 112,000 die from car accidents monthly
• 130,000 die from diabetes monthly, and an additional 185,000 die from high blood glucose monthly
• 250,000 die from alcoholism monthly
• 600,000 die from smoking monthly
• 1.5 m from heart disease monthly

Also, according to John Hopkins University, 20,000 die monthly from from Iatrogenic causes (medical errors) in USA alone!

Don’t you think you should worry more about the above causes of death, which are more threatening to you than COVID-19 and which you have a better control of?

Don’t you think it’s better and more productive to lose weight, have a balanced diet, exercise, drive safely, sleep well and do not imbibe too much alcohol than to worry about COVID-19 inappropriately?

But of course, I am not asking you to be reckless. I ask you to be responsible and do your part! See the MOH website.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...oh5m_english.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=762d32d8_1

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...irus/eng-jpg.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=396258d8_1

4. Current estimates of fatality rate of CPVID-19 is 1.5% to 2.5% but some scientists believe that eventually this rate will come closer to the swine flu of 0.1%. And PM Lee Hsien Loong implied that as well. Discovery of vaccines will of course reduce the rate to close to zero. And preliminary data suggest those who die are of vulnerable groups – those who are older and those who are already sick.

For comparison, mortality rates of Singaporeans

Age 50-54 0.376%
Age 55-59 0.619%
Age 60-64 1.318%

This mean if you are infected with nCOV-19, your chance of dying from it is quite close to a Singaporean person age 63 dying at the age of 63 of all causes. Does a 63-year-old man going around worrying he will die that year?

Please understand this. You have to get infected first. Your probability to get infected is very very low, and you can reduce this further. I will write in a separate posting on how you can reduce the rate of infection.

Photo Nut, [17.02.20 16:59]
Lastly, if you do get infected, I can recommend things you can do to strengthen your immune system. Sleep and intermittent fasting. And, l will write on this separately later as well!

One of the philosophers I admire is Bertrand Russell. He said

“Fear is the main source of superstition... To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.”

If you agree with my sentiments, please share my posting.
"Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance)... it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus...These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed."

[edit]From which crystal ball he sees "...numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections"

It is senseless. There are experts everywhere. Even recently, a Singapore doctor routinely parroted the same figures: 300,000 to 600,000 people die of the flu each year globally - which is not true. These doctors read articles and just repeated those figures without knowing the full significance of the figures. I have already said again and again, the CDC of China has the official figure for flu in China 2018 : "700,000 cases and 147 death". What more do you want.

Chan Rasjid.

"Chemical Analysis Of Plain Distilled Water May Refute Mass-Energy Conservation Of E=mc²"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass.
"Coulomb Electric Gravity"; gravity is all Coulomb electric.
http://www.emc2fails.com
 
"Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance)... it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus...These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed."

[edit]From which crystal ball he sees "...numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections"

It is senseless. There are experts everywhere. Even recently, a Singapore doctor routinely parroted the same figures: 300,000 to 600,000 people die of the flu each year globally - which is not true. These doctors read articles and just repeated those figures without knowing the full significance of the figures. I have already said again and again, the CDC of China has the official figure for flu in China 2018 : "700,000 cases and 147 death". What more do you want.

Chan Rasjid.

"Chemical Analysis Of Plain Distilled Water May Refute Mass-Energy Conservation Of E=mc²"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass.
"Coulomb Electric Gravity"; gravity is all Coulomb electric.
http://www.emc2fails.com

Nobody knows how many cases there are but I can guarantee you that the number is under reported so the actual mortality rate is lower than the official figure.

If you want to huddle in a corner be my guest.
 
Good Post by Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance). Provides clarity cos he is an actuarist (calculates risks of people dying or getting sick to calculate premiums to charge for insurance), it’s long but very sensible esp when it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus....

*COVID-19 – A psychological and an actuarial approach.*

There is a lot of fear of COVID-19 coronavirus. Largely, it is the fear of unknown, as this virus is new.

As Gandhi said, “The enemy is fear. We think it is hate; but, it is fear.”

As a trained psychologist and an actuary, and a student of crowd dynamics, I would like to bring a sense of perspective, different contexts and rationality into the discussion on COVID-19 to dispel fear.

As of 15 February, we have 1527 number of deaths in the last three months arising from 67,000 infections (99 % from China). These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed. This is how pandemics work. For me, the increase in numbers were not particularly alarming, as they look like arithmetic ........
.......................................... ........................................... ............................................ ............................................................................................................
.......................................................................

If you agree with my sentiments, please share my posting.

fuck you, you chye bye mouth. why you contradict yourself. Tan Suee Chieh is obviously a chink and you have been saying chinks are
not to be trusted.
 
Good Post by Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance). Provides clarity cos he is an actuarist (calculates risks of people dying or getting sick to calculate premiums to charge for insurance), it’s long but very sensible esp when it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus....

*COVID-19 – A psychological and an actuarial approach.*

There is a lot of fear of COVID-19 coronavirus. Largely, it is the fear of unknown, as this virus is new.

As Gandhi said, “The enemy is fear. We think it is hate; but, it is fear.”

As a trained psychologist and an actuary, and a student of crowd dynamics, I would like to bring a sense of perspective, different contexts and rationality into the discussion on COVID-19 to dispel fear.

As of 15 February, we have 1527 number of deaths in the last three months arising from 67,000 infections (99 % from China). These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed. This is how pandemics work. For me, the increase in numbers were not particularly alarming, as they look like arithmetic progressions rather than geometric progressions.

So we do not have to be paralysed by fear of these statistics. We can be rational, objective and calm in our our response because

1. In 2009, the H1N1 swine flu which emanated in USA caused 360,000 deaths (range 150,000 -575,000) in the first year – CDC/Lancet. And 762 million infections in the first year. (Science Alert). The fatality rate was 0.1 %. Were you panicking then?

2. Do you know according CDC (Center of Disease Control – USA) about 40,000 people die from seasonal flus worldwide monthly? Do you worry about dying from seasonal flus?

3. Do you know that according to WHO (World Health Organisation, a United Nations organization) on a worldwide basis,

• 65,000 die from HIV monthly
• 112,000 die from car accidents monthly
• 130,000 die from diabetes monthly, and an additional 185,000 die from high blood glucose monthly
• 250,000 die from alcoholism monthly
• 600,000 die from smoking monthly
• 1.5 m from heart disease monthly

Also, according to John Hopkins University, 20,000 die monthly from from Iatrogenic causes (medical errors) in USA alone!

Don’t you think you should worry more about the above causes of death, which are more threatening to you than COVID-19 and which you have a better control of?

Don’t you think it’s better and more productive to lose weight, have a balanced diet, exercise, drive safely, sleep well and do not imbibe too much alcohol than to worry about COVID-19 inappropriately?

But of course, I am not asking you to be reckless. I ask you to be responsible and do your part! See the MOH website.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...oh5m_english.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=762d32d8_1

https://www.moh.gov.sg/images/libra...irus/eng-jpg.tmb-medium.jpg?sfvrsn=396258d8_1

4. Current estimates of fatality rate of CPVID-19 is 1.5% to 2.5% but some scientists believe that eventually this rate will come closer to the swine flu of 0.1%. And PM Lee Hsien Loong implied that as well. Discovery of vaccines will of course reduce the rate to close to zero. And preliminary data suggest those who die are of vulnerable groups – those who are older and those who are already sick.

For comparison, mortality rates of Singaporeans

Age 50-54 0.376%
Age 55-59 0.619%
Age 60-64 1.318%

This mean if you are infected with nCOV-19, your chance of dying from it is quite close to a Singaporean person age 63 dying at the age of 63 of all causes. Does a 63-year-old man going around worrying he will die that year?

Please understand this. You have to get infected first. Your probability to get infected is very very low, and you can reduce this further. I will write in a separate posting on how you can reduce the rate of infection.

Photo Nut, [17.02.20 16:59]
Lastly, if you do get infected, I can recommend things you can do to strengthen your immune system. Sleep and intermittent fasting. And, l will write on this separately later as well!

One of the philosophers I admire is Bertrand Russell. He said

“Fear is the main source of superstition... To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.”

If you agree with my sentiments, please share my posting.
I know Tan Suee Chieh's wife. Dated her for a while before I enlisted for BMT. Met her at Superteen Camp.

We are still friends.
 
Nobody knows how many cases there are but I can guarantee you that the number is under reported so the actual mortality rate is lower than the official figure.

If you want to huddle in a corner be my guest.
If the figures cannot be trusted, how can these actuarists calculate risks and talk big! Under reporting may be the death numbers which means a rise in mortality rate - or a lowering depending.

Chan Rasjid.
 
"Tan Suee Chieh (ex CEO of Prudential and NTUC Insurance)... it tells you the odds of dying from normal old age is higher than from the virus...These numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections. So when you hear about more deaths, you should not be alarmed."

[edit]From which crystal ball he sees "...numbers are certain to rise to tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of infections"

It is senseless. There are experts everywhere. Even recently, a Singapore doctor routinely parroted the same figures: 300,000 to 600,000 people die of the flu each year globally - which is not true. These doctors read articles and just repeated those figures without knowing the full significance of the figures. I have already said again and again, the CDC of China has the official figure for flu in China 2018 : "700,000 cases and 147 death". What more do you want.

Chan Rasjid.

"Chemical Analysis Of Plain Distilled Water May Refute Mass-Energy Conservation Of E=mc²"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass.
"Coulomb Electric Gravity"; gravity is all Coulomb electric.
http://www.emc2fails.com
I appreciate the advice put out by independent experts and rational people, to help us put things into perspective. And at the same time, I am wary of stats put out by the CCP. They tend to hide facts and numbers. So, let us just be cautious, be mindful of the extra precautions we should take during this time, and try to carry on with our lives. And wait out this unfortunate episode.
 
If only he used his expert skills and analyze the ToTo numbers for this week and let us all know.
 
I appreciate the advice put out by independent experts and rational people, to help us put things into perspective. And at the same time, I am wary of stats put out by the CCP. They tend to hide facts and numbers. So, let us just be cautious, be mindful of the extra precautions we should take during this time, and try to carry on with our lives. And wait out this unfortunate episode.
This figure from CDC China is for seasonal flu in 2018: "700,000 cases and 147 death" is before the current Wuhan virus outbreak and nothing political. The 500,000 figure of death that has been floated around is "new findings" published in The Lancet...whatever and it is for "influenza-related death from respiratory diseases" - not the flu itself (my opinion, to sell flu vaccines). China's 147 death is because of the way they reported cause of death; the 147 death is when there are no known underlying conditions. In the west, a person 80 years old with diabetes+kidney disease+lung infection getting the flu and dies, the cause of death is : FLU.

Chan Rasjid.
 
There is already a month's worth of data and even without an actuary a layman like me can already predict that this virus is no worse than seasonal flu.
Anybody can draw a trend line. May be double digit new confirm cases this week. :eek:
 
The bottom line is the fear of the Wuhan virus is worse than the virus itself. In addition, the Wuhan virus should have been treated like the normal flu. And same percautions taken. If sick stay at home and rest. Wear face mask if sick, wash your hands etc etc. All this quarantine etc what positives has it done? give business to medical corporations, give sanitisers and face mask manufacturers business?
 
People who live in fear do not need statistics.
They live by the "gospel" of PAP and follow blind faith. Last statistic proved 70% of such "worshippers" existed in Singapore. Not sure whether it will change.
 
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