Blame the WP and not the PAP for this election result

[Papsmearer]

good point...and singkies are too thick to accept blame,,they blame WP, blame New Shitizens, Blame Mudland, blame their ancestors,,but they are the ones that put the X on the Pap Logo on the ballot paper,,,

Use you brains. 70% of the voters put an X in the box for the PAP. This part is true. I am not disagreeing with it. But you cannot tell me that all of this 70% is diehard hardcore PAP supporters who will lan lan vote PAP no matter what. At the most, maybe 40%-50% are these die hards. The rest of them are fence sitters and swing voters.

The question is what caused this 20-30% swing voters to vote for the PAP this time? Obviously in the last election, much more of them voted for the oppo. Something happened to caused them to switch to the PAP this time. What was it? I maintained as the TS in this thread that it was the weak, and unimaginative and passive performance shown by the WP in Parliament that caused this. The people who voted for the oppo and WP last elections were looking for leadership from the WP that would indicate that they can keep the PAP on its toes, represent their views (even if the PAP will outvote the WP all the time), and ask the important questions like Roy did for the issues like the CPF. But the WP did non of this.

You can say ultimately in the end, the voter is the one that put the X on the ballot. But there is a motivation behind everyone of them. No one puts an X for no bloody reason. Blame it for the lame shit performance of the WP.

 

[Papsmearer]

too much hindsight 20/20 bullshido here. you would be credible only if you predict a more than 65% mandate for the pap 6 months ago. not now with all these usual post-ge finger-pointing, blaming and "i know better than you", "my insider knowledge is more tok kong than yours" sinkie bravado and boastfulness. hindsight 20/20 means jackshit to me.

SInce you are in the Bay Area, let me give you an American Football analogy. After every game, the team analyses the game and watch film on it. Whether they win or lose, they watch film and study what they did right and what they did wrong. This is what we are doing. A low IQ person like you might call it finger pointing, bravado or whatever shit you want to call it. But if the oppo don't study this election and try to figure out what went wrong, they will not improve on the next one. You can bet your ass that the PAP is already studying this result and already analysing why they did not win ALL the seats.

 

[Papsmearer]

Sad to say Singapore under PAP will forever be susceptible to such global turmoils. Of course, people will say that we are a small country and hence such, but i think a key issue is that PAP mini-stars and their Perm-Secs are all bankrupt of ideas. People are selected based on kinship and not abilities and such people will never be able to innovate and create solutions for our country.

As a case in point, SG being the most expensive city in the world is still relying heavily on manufacturing to drive our numbers.

I have yet to see a clear direction set by PAP to drive us forward in the short to mid term, other than cheaper, faster and betterer.

They keep talking about productivity without really understanding how to drive productivity, hence the large number of cheating cases with PIC grants.

This is a very sad state of affair and a lot of people fail to see this. Singapore has not really collapse because our past leaders have foresight and have amassed a large reserve. However, these monies will not last forever and will eventually be squandered away by the current team. One clear sign of this happening is when instead of growing our reserves, the govt is often thinking of ways to take more from the people to put into the reserves.

Hence, I conclude that the economic cycles will repeat itself every 7 to 8 years and each hit will be worse than the last because our esteemed leaders just do not have any idea how to buffer against it and they will just keep throwing money at it. One day, there will be no more water to be squeezed from the rock and the well will run dry....sigh...

SOme valid points you raise. The PAP is indeed bankrupt of ideas. They exhort people to be more productive but just look at the PM compared with his father. Gay Loong has 2 DPM and 4 other Ministers helping him in his office. This is productive?

The reserves are clearly gone. That is why you cannot easily take your CPF out. That is why they need to let in 10 million population so as to earn more money for the GLCs like SMRT, SIA, worker levies, etc to kick into the coffers of Temasek.

 

[Papsmearer]

I vote for any opposition as its better than voting for the pappies. N I dont see the big deal with the sampling as its announce after the polls close. So how does tat affect the vote?

That is you. Many people are like you, they don't care who is the oppo, they vote for it, like u say. But other people are not like that. You made the mistake that all of the voters are like you. Either pro PAP or Pro Oppo. But many need to be convinced to vote oppo. Their default vote is for the PAP. They need to be pursuaded to vote oppo. These swing voters gave the WP a chance in the last election. They were dissappointed by the WP performance. SO, this time, they could not be convinced to go the same way again.

 

[eatshitndie]

SInce you are in the Bay Area, let me give you an American Football analogy. After every game, the team analyses the game and watch film on it. Whether they win or lose, they watch film and study what they did right and what they did wrong. This is what we are doing. A low IQ person like you might call it finger pointing, bravado or whatever shit you want to call it. But if the oppo don't study this election and try to figure out what went wrong, they will not improve on the next one. You can bet your ass that the PAP is already studying this result and already analysing why they did not win ALL the seats.

allow me to teach you finer points about american football. team-rebuilding typically requires a series of 6 losing seasons to get early draft picks each season-end to put the best specialized players on offense and defense: qb, wr, and rb as the core of an explosive offense and lb, pr, and ss as the core of a solid defense. the recent success of the te in offense and cb in defense means the rebuilding timescale to reach winning and championship caliber has been extended to 8 draft cycles.

for a lousy losing team with aging players to try to study their last game is an exercise in futility, and it is very low in priority even for winning and good teams. right after a game, they study tape and video of their next opponent's new play calls and formations for their next game as one week or less is all they have for adjustments, new strategies, play calls, practice, and travel.

the timescale and scope of each ge is more analogous to the team rebuilding exercise in the former paragraph than mere game by game re-adjustments and reloading in the latter.

 

[Cerebral]

allow me to teach you finer points about american football. team-rebuilding typically requires a series of 6 losing seasons to get early draft picks each season-end to put the best specialized players on offense and defense: qb, wr, and rb as the core of an explosive offense and lb, pr, and ss as the core of a solid defense. the recent success of the te in offense and cb in defense means the rebuilding timescale to reach winning and championship caliber has been extended to 8 draft cycles.

for a lousy losing team with aging players to try to study their last game is an exercise in futility, and it is very low in priority even for winning and good teams. right after a game, they study tape and video of their next opponent's new play calls and formations for their next game as one week or less is all they have for adjustments, new strategies, play calls, practice, and travel.

the timescale and scope of each ge is more analogous to the team rebuilding exercise in the former paragraph than mere game by game re-adjustments and reloading in the latter.

牛头不对马嘴。。。 Cow head no fit Horse mouth...

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Use you brains. 70% of the voters put an X in the box for the PAP. This part is true. I am not disagreeing with it. But you cannot tell me that all of this 70% is diehard hardcore PAP supporters who will lan lan vote PAP no matter what. At the most, maybe 40%-50% are these die hards. The rest of them are fence sitters and swing voters.

The question is what caused this 20-30% swing voters to vote for the PAP this time? Obviously in the last election, much more of them voted for the oppo. Something happened to caused them to switch to the PAP this time. What was it? I maintained as the TS in this thread that it was the weak, and unimaginative and passive performance shown by the WP in Parliament that caused this. The people who voted for the oppo and WP last elections were looking for leadership from the WP that would indicate that they can keep the PAP on its toes, represent their views (even if the PAP will outvote the WP all the time), and ask the important questions like Roy did for the issues like the CPF. But the WP did non of this.

You can say ultimately in the end, the voter is the one that put the X on the ballot. But there is a motivation behind everyone of them. No one puts an X for no bloody reason. Blame it for the lame shit performance of the WP.

This is flawed logic.
You stuck in a burning building and you call the fire dept....
Fire dept couldn't fight the fire perhaps too few firemen.....
What do you do? You dun call the arsonists for help right? You call in more firemen! Or call whoever else to help!

 

[CABcommander]

That is you. Many people are like you, they don't care who is the oppo, they vote for it, like u say. But other people are not like that. You made the mistake that all of the voters are like you. Either pro PAP or Pro Oppo. But many need to be convinced to vote oppo. Their default vote is for the PAP. They need to be pursuaded to vote oppo. These swing voters gave the WP a chance in the last election. They were dissappointed by the WP performance. SO, this time, they could not be convinced to go the same way again.

if you are so concern about the quality of opposition then maybe you should try convincing SDA, RP, PPP, DPP, SPP, Singfirst to disband because their poor performances are giving oppositions a bad name.

 

[yahoo55]

good analysis!!! thats why the elections were put forward. i will be sad to see folks who lose jobs and lost investments... but that's going to be the case...

unless some form of Economic Reforms are done during this period of Recession, Singapore will never rise up again to be strong... The Economic Reforms must happen NOW! But, I'm just 1 person...

Can't help the 70pct who loves to be assfucked.

Two weeks ago, MAS and bank economists have slashed economic growth to 2.2%, and just one week later economists have slashed economic growth again to 1.8%, and next month there could be more slashing of economic growth. Business of many companies have already slowed tremendously, many companies also have huge debts and struggling to pay their debts, interest rates are rising and many companies could collapse within the next 2 years.

The temptation of super low interest rates have resulted in Singapore households and companies borrowing massively the last 5-6 years, Singapore's private debts are amongst the highest in Asia. Many people are going to be bankrupt in the recession amid rising interest rates and retrenchments.

I'm going to laugh at the idiots who voted for PAP and subsequently got retrenched, and struggling to make ends meet and pay their mortgages. These idiots have given PAP a huge mandate and absolute power to screw them and squeeze every drop of blood from them like the last recession. These idiots have forgotten how badly many people have suffered in the last recession with PAP in absolute power in parliament.

Singapore's economic news the last few days, more bad news ahead in the coming weeks and months.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore/dbs-lowers-growth/2118110.html

DBS lowers growth forecast for Singapore to 1.8%
POSTED: 10 Sep 2015 21:51

Describing Singapore as a “small boat in rough seas", DBS said headwinds from abroad have intensified in the last two months. It cited challenges such as the recent stock market volatility in China and the region, and the possibility of a US rate hike as early as next week.

Said Mr Irvin Seah, a senior economist at DBS Bank: "I think there is a good 40 per cent chance we are already in a technical recession. By itself, the manufacturing sector is already in recession. And now, the services sector is the only pillar that is propping things up.

http://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/headhunters-expect-hiring-freeze-next-year
Singapore headhunters expect hiring freeze in 2016
Published: Sep 12, 2015, 5:00 am SGT

SINGAPORE - Job hiring has so far been only modestly affected by the recent stock market turmoil and China's economic slowdown, Singapore headhunters say.

But they predict hiring could be halted completely in the second half of next year (2016) as the full impact of these factors flows through, leaving employers far more cautious.

 

[LordElrond]

We have a strong mandate here. 69.9% of forummers thinks Papsmearer is talking cock.

 

[Papsmearer]

We have a strong mandate here. 69.9% of forummers thinks Papsmearer is talking cock.

If I am talking cock as you claim, why is there over 6700 views of this thread and why is it 8 pages long? If this is a bullshit thread as you say, people don't bother to come and view it.

 

[Papsmearer]

allow me to teach you finer points about american football. team-rebuilding typically requires a series of 6 losing seasons to get early draft picks each season-end to put the best specialized players on offense and defense: qb, wr, and rb as the core of an explosive offense and lb, pr, and ss as the core of a solid defense. the recent success of the te in offense and cb in defense means the rebuilding timescale to reach winning and championship caliber has been extended to 8 draft cycles.

for a lousy losing team with aging players to try to study their last game is an exercise in futility, and it is very low in priority even for winning and good teams. right after a game, they study tape and video of their next opponent's new play calls and formations for their next game as one week or less is all they have for adjustments, new strategies, play calls, practice, and travel.

the timescale and scope of each ge is more analogous to the team rebuilding exercise in the former paragraph than mere game by game re-adjustments and reloading in the latter.

Team rebuilding simi lancheow? You have to win something, and then lose it, before you can rebuild it back to where you won the last time. The oppos never won anything. Re-build what? Every election is one game for them. And to date, they have not won one single game. The best they can do is to study the latest game they lost and correct the errors before the next game, in the hopes that they will win it.

 

[Scrooball (clone)]

If I am talking cock as you claim, why is there over 6700 views of this thread and why is it 8 pages long? If this is a bullshit thread as you say, people don't bother to come and view it.

If u strip naked in Orchard road and thousands crowd around to watch, it doesn't mean u have a big fat beautiful penis.

 

[Papsmearer]

if you are so concern about the quality of opposition then maybe you should try convincing SDA, RP, PPP, DPP, SPP, Singfirst to disband because their poor performances are giving oppositions a bad name.

Again, I have to explain some simple facts to essentially morons.

Singfirst and PPP are very new parties, in fact one was only formed this year. Their performances, while poor, is not unexpected. Given that they only had a 9 day campaigning period to get their message out and with limited resources, this is not an outcome that surprised anyone.

Now look at all the oppo parties you mentioned, the 6 of them combined do not have 10% of the resources of the WP. WP's MPs received almost $6 million in salaries in the 4 year period that they were in Parliament. More importantly, the WP and not these 6 parties had a national forum called the PArliament, in which they had 4 years to get out their message, their policies, and their solutions to the voters. If these 6 oppo parties had this kind of money available to them, and a guaranteed public and national forum with which the media has to provide coverage for their viewpoints, the oppos parties you mentioned would have done a lot better.

Given that WP had all these resources, why couldn't they hire reputable economists to refute every one of the PAP's policies (eg higher GST will help the Poor). Why could they not take a real leadership role among the oppos and co-ordinate their attack on the PAP? This is not the good old days when they had one or 2 oppos in Parliament, each earning $2000 or so. They had 6 + 2 each earning $16,000. Fucking shit, what did they do with all this resources? May I remind you the title of this Thread. The Blame is on the WP. Not on the other oppo parties.

 

[Papsmearer]

If u strip naked in Orchard road and thousands crowd around to watch, it doesn't mean u have a big fat beautiful penis.

Don't be jealous. Its not my fault you have a tow kay for a penis.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Given that WP had all these resources, why couldn't they hire reputable economists to refute every one of the PAP's policies (eg higher GST will help the Poor).

You nailed it. That is the main reason why I started a thread asking if academics make good politicians. Not only on the subject matter of GST. The ''experts'' can comment on matters related to economics behind transport policies, health policies et cetera. They can agree or disprove the position taken by the government and their words will more likely be taken seriously since they are merely providing their expert opinion.

When WP MPs go to parliament, they are similar to lawyers acting for accused persons. DPPs or the prosecution will always have the edge. A good counsel will not allow DPP to get away with his arguments. They will die-die ensure the ball lands up in the other location.

 

[Papsmearer]

You nailed it. That is the main reason why I started a thread asking if academics make good politicians. Not only on the subject matter of GST. The ''experts'' can comment on matters related to economics behind transport policies, health policies et cetera. They can agree or disprove the position taken by the government and their words will more likely be taken seriously since they are merely providing their expert opinion.

When WP MPs go to parliament, they are similar to lawyers acting for accused persons. DPPs or the prosecution will always have the edge. A good counsel will not allow DPP to get away with his arguments. They will die-die ensure the ball lands up in the other location.

Yes. Consider this. If the WP had hired its own experts or economists to refute the PAP in vigoruous debates in Parliament on GST, CPF, Immigration policy, etc. the PAP controlled media has no choice but to give their arguments equal air time as the PAP. The media's doggy role is to support the PAP, so they have to give air time to the PAP to refute any potential evidence presented by the WP against their policies. Look at the many stupid things Gay Loong said. One of the things he said was FTs create jobs. You telling me that WP could not find many contrarian properly researched papers that showed the opposite and present them in Parliament to refute him? Shit Times has not choice but to give this evidence its due air time especially if the PM is countering them. If letting in more FT was the solution to job creation, then the US, the world's number 1 economy, would have opened its borders long ago to Mexicans. Imagine if the WP consistently employed experts, specialists, etc to fight PAP on all its unpopular policies for the 4 years they were in Parliament prior to this last election, you are telling me the poll results would still be 70% for the PAP? I doubt it. Instead, you would have watched the PAP gabra one after the other when each of their policies is exposed to have fatal flaws.

we saw no evidence of any of these actions by the WP. That is why I blame the WP.

 

[zeebjii]

To those that keep saying WP was quiet and hence the voters turn against them,,,than how come the other Oppos who were more noisier get less votes? SDP and SPP and SingFirst should have at least got 40% of the vote,,,they would have replace WP in the forums etc,, how come they get rejected by the voters?

WP also get less votes compared to 2011, in ALL the same constituencies contested. Lost quite badly in east coast many expected WP to win. Nearly lost aljunied with a Yeo Guat Kwang-led "suicide' team.

 

[jw5]

Your point that WP should have done more and better? Yes.

Your point that WP would have been better opposition under a different leader? Sorry, it's irrelevant, it's like asking if Singapore would have been better if LKY had not been born. Lol

Your point that other types of opposition styles - more combative and confrontational would have led to more opposition votes? No. Understand the mentality of sinkie voters first. You are not going to change them overnight after years of indoctrination.

Ok, now wait for the <former police scholar cum wannabe police commisioner's> "nailed it" reply.

Yes. Consider this. If the WP had hired its own experts or economists to refute the PAP in vigoruous debates in Parliament on GST, CPF, Immigration policy, etc. the PAP controlled media has no choice but to give their arguments equal air time as the PAP. The media's doggy role is to support the, so they have to give air time to the PAP to refute any potential evidence presented by the WP against their policies. Look at the many stupid things Gay Loong said. One of the things he said was FTs create jobs. You telling me that WP could not find many contrarian properly researched papers that showed the opposite and present them in Parliament to refute him? Shit Times has not choice but to give this evidence its due air time especially if the PM is countering them. If letting in more FT was the solution to job creation, then the US, the world's number 1 economy, would have opened its borders long ago to Mexicans. Imagine if the WP consistently employed experts, specialists, etc to fight PAP on all its unpopular poilcies for the 4 years they were in Parliament prior to this last election, you are telling me the poll results would still be 70% for the PAP? I doubt it.

we saw no evidence of any of these actions by the WP. That is why I blame the WP.

 

[mojito]

The reserves are clearly gone. That is why you cannot easily take your CPF out. That is why they need to let in 10 million population so as to earn more money for the GLCs like SMRT, SIA, worker levies, etc to kick into the coffers of Temasek.

I have said this many times. Better to queue orderly for the emigration exit instead of causing a bank run on cpf and collapse in property prices. You die your business! Teehee!