A revisit of the Underage Prostitute Case

[jixiaolan]

So far, only the principal went in the jail. At least, 3 or 4 more men had plead guilty. The principal did made a last minute u-turn, decided to hire a lawyer but the purpose was only to enter a plea for him. Howard Shaw's lawyer did quite well. He cited that there is no provision made on mandatory jail sentence and hence that had given the courts an extremely wide discretion ranging from a nominal fine to a maximum jail sentence of seven years.

The pimp had advertised the prostitute age on website as 18 and when meeting clients, the prostitue also told them she was 18/19. Most mentioned they had no reason to doubt this due to her appearance and behaviour. But since ignorance cannot be used as an excuse, the easy way out for most accused is to plead guilty and enter a plea hoping to get just a fine.

So far, no one bring up 1 important issue - Is it a social norm for clients to verify the prostitute IC. Law is build upon ’reasonableness‘. What if the prostitute use someone else IC (just like the JC girl who borrowed her friend's IC to go disco), should these men be guilty as well. I give you another example. Let's say you are 16, you go to cinema and buy a ticket to watch NC16 movie but the cinema deliberately screened a RA movie. Should the law hold you or the operator liable?

I fully agree with Subhas Anandan's assertion that these men are innocent. I hope someone will claim trial and fight to the end as I believe they do stand a chance to clear themselves.

 

[valiant20]

The Swiss guy claiming trial.. Yesterday's news (as in today Wednesday, yesterday Tuesday) :p

 

[laksaboy]

More importantly, there should be a rethink of Singapore's laws regarding sex with a minor.

I find it ludicrous that paid sex with a 16-year old prostitute is a crime, even though the legal age of consent is 16.

 

[Nik1971]

So far, only the principal went in the jail.


I fully agree with Subhas Anandan's assertion that these men are innocent. I hope someone will claim trial and fight to the end as I believe they do stand a chance to clear themselves.

Nothing new leh....

 

[RWSSLOTS]

well....if sinkie woman are good, these women would not visit chicken

 

[besotted]

Strict liability lah

All eyes on Howard Shaw's lawyer because this is case precedent

 

[looneytan]

All eyes on Howard Shaw's lawyer

The SC used to be my lawyer but not this type of case la

 

[scroobal]

Yes and very powerful argument for a court case.

More importantly, there should be a rethink of Singapore's laws regarding sex with a minor.

I find it ludicrous that paid sex with a 16-year old prostitute is a crime, even though the legal age of consent is 16.

 

[jixiaolan]

I feel great injustice for these guys to be publicly shamed by the media and suffered what I deemed as juridical miscarriage. It is laughable for someone to suggest checking the prostitute IC to verify her age before proceeding for copulation. For one, the National Registration Department did not issue out NRIC to facilitate commerical sex. Even the police on patrol cannot ask you directly to produce your IC for the purpose of a "routine check" (this has been discussed here for many times), so who has given the power to those procuring commercial sex to check on the prostitute IC? Perhaps, CASE should provide guidelines on how to procure commercial sex safely and legally in Singapore without being publicly shame and getting into trouble with law.

These men should not be taken to task on moral ground. The fact that procuring sex in Singapore is not illegal. Whilst the law makers see there is a need to protect the minor from entering the sex trade, they should also provide legal provision to protect the public to make sure that they are not unfairly and harshly penalised. Since the enactment of the new law, stream of news with men getting the rod for engaging sex with underaged prostitutes has become so prevalence and reported almost in every month lately. This imply that the law enactment may have failed to meet its original purpose.

What is the rationale of hauling the guys to court; in the process disrupting their lives, families and careers? Meting out punishment without providing solution will not help an inch to protect the minors from entering the sex trade. For a start, the authority should be issuing out yellow cards to whoever that want to be in the sex trade with priority given to our local sex workers. With the new ‘Singaporeans-first’ policies in place, there is no need to export them to SEA as suggested by our special one.

 

[halsey02]

The girl should be shamed...or bring the committee members of AWARE to task over this...she is no 'angel', she knows what she is in for!! Why shame the men only....not fair!

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

So far, only the principal went in the jail. At least, 3 or 4 more men had plead guilty. The principal did made a last minute u-turn, decided to hire a lawyer but the purpose was only to enter a plea for him. Howard Shaw's lawyer did quite well. He cited that there is no provision made on mandatory jail sentence and hence that had given the courts an extremely wide discretion ranging from a nominal fine to a maximum jail sentence of seven years.

The pimp had advertised the prostitute age on website as 18 and when meeting clients, the prostitue also told them she was 18/19. Most mentioned they had no reason to doubt this due to her appearance and behaviour. But since ignorance cannot be used as an excuse, the easy way out for most accused is to plead guilty and enter a plea hoping to get just a fine.

So far, no one bring up 1 important issue - Is it a social norm for clients to verify the prostitute IC. Law is build upon ’reasonableness‘. What if the prostitute use someone else IC (just like the JC girl who borrowed her friend's IC to go disco), should these men be guilty as well. I give you another example. Let's say you are 16, you go to cinema and buy a ticket to watch NC16 movie but the cinema deliberately screened a RA movie. Should the law hold you or the operator liable?

I fully agree with Subhas Anandan's assertion that these men are innocent. I hope someone will claim trial and fight to the end as I believe they do stand a chance to clear themselves.

They will lose the case and they will be the perpetrators as well as the victims when the end is reached. The law is the law. We have seen how laws have been bent but the precedent has been set with the principal being imprisoned.

HS's refusal to admit guilt has brought about more shame as his previous convictions and incarceration has been made public. Should the girl be a witness in court, the sordid details of these men will be made public. What kind of a man do we have that pays money to bed a girl young enough to be his daughter? What type of sexual acts as well as the sexual thoughts of these men will be made known to the public.

 

[Sir_Fcuk]

Should the girl be a witness in court, the sordid details of these men will be made public. What kind of a man do we have that pays money to bed a girl young enough to be his daughter? What type of sexual acts as well as the sexual thoughts of these men will be made known to the public.

A lot of men do that. Just that they are never caught. Go China... you can be in sex heaven with all the 17-year-olds you want

 

[Kinana]

In all, these chronometers deserve to be punished under the law. Those who claim trial should be given double time of what the school principal.

 

[GoldenDragon]

I feel great injustice for these guys to be publicly shamed by the media and suffered what I deemed as juridical miscarriage.

Agree. Imo, the 48 chaps are more victims than accused persons. The underaged gal is the accused person for cheating! Section 420 fits in well.

 

[jixiaolan]

Exactly. This prostitute was 17 years old, not below 7 years old and she is an educated person, not some illiterate women abducted from villages. She can't be happily parting her legs for money and still deemed as a victim, right. Her clients were cheated and yet the court see it fit to send them to prison. Forget about the new lemon law. Where is CASE when the consumers need them most!

Agree. Imo, the 48 chaps are more victims than accused persons. The underaged gal is the accused person for cheating! Section 420 fits in well.

 

[jixiaolan]

All prostitutes and social escorts should be issue with yellow cards. For those who operate without a license, they should be taken to task irrespective of their ages. Problem solved. Why make it so difficult?

<Former Singapore Environment Council (SEC) executive director, Howard Shaw, has been sentenced to 12 weeks' jail for having sex with an underaged prostitute.

The scion of the prominent Shaw family, 41, was sentenced on Monday at the Sub Courts, but his lawyer Harpeet Singh said he would be appealing the sentence. >

 

[Kinana]

More importantly, there should be a rethink of Singapore's laws regarding sex with a minor.

I find it ludicrous that paid sex with a 16-year old prostitute is a crime, even though the legal age of consent is 16.

Prostitution itself should be made a crime.

 

[Cestbon]

Now all shift to CHC KH case.

 

[eatshitndie]

More importantly, there should be a rethink of Singapore's laws regarding sex with a minor.

I find it ludicrous that paid sex with a 16-year old prostitute is a crime, even though the legal age of consent is 16.

due to international pressure on underaged human trafficking, they are toeing the international line. they're not gonna rethink a rethink again. this issue has been rethunk too many times.

 

[GoldenDragon]

due to international pressure on underaged human trafficking, they are toeing the international line. they're not gonna rethink a rethink again. this issue has been rethunk too many times.

That's my guess too.

Education and deterrence message already conveyed. Public shaming too. Objectives met 100%.

No other reason to overkill for a victimless crime, imo. Has to be for the international stage.

Just curious. If LKY's grandson was involved or son(s) of minister(s), still proceed like that?