CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected!

[silverfox@]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I truly admire Mr Goh for being so daring to suggest the removal of the housing grant even though he will most likely face backlash from the voters. Personally, I feel the right thing a politician should do is to do the right thing and not what is going to be popular with the electorate. Even when that may cost them to lose some votes, so be it.

However, there is one big problem with GMS. He failed to elaborate and explain in details which is a must especially when implementing unpopular policy changes.

The right thing he should do is to be popular with the electorate and win their votes 1st. Not lose them.. That is his first entry to parliament. Once he wins, he can do all kinds of daring stunts and suggest policies to his heart content.

Like you said, he is likely to face backlash which shows that this suggestion is not going to be popular and everyone knows it. So we can't be blind to it just because he is the opposition.

 

[scroobal]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Sensible and well argued points.

Hard and unpopular decisions are always made when one receives the mandate to govern. Never before that and certainly not close to the elections.

The most important category that all parties have to appeal to are those in the "young' bracket as old timers are generally quite resolute in their preference of parties and candidates. To raise an issue where the impact is directly on the young is poor political judgement and in this case suicidal.

All politicians have strong opinions on a number of issues but they will not raise it if it is conceived as negative to the campaign.

The price is not fundamentally driven by grants. Ramseth has explained this well. The other thing is that grants are always withdrawn when the markets reverses significantly. Why offer someone grant when prices are affordable. Suggesting that grants provides price support in a downturn is actually dumb. Grants do not appply across the board.

The PAP as a rule do not offer anything for free. The grants are there to buy votes. It is a political instrument to correct the poor handling of a sector where they have a virtual monopoly. The issue and focus is affordability and the uncertainty faced by young Singaporeans. The grant if raised as an issue has to highlight the failure of the PAP to provide a stable property market that grows reasonably well in time.

Let treat this as an aberration or else the NSP is going to slide faster than the worse downturn

In an electoral contest, the right thing to do is to be popular with the voters. Otherwise go join a academic research think tank or something. In any case, the grant not only helps eligible buyer to afford buying, it'll also helps in case of a market downturn. That is, if someone bought a flat for S$200,000 with a S$40,000 grant, he's cushioned to up to S$40,000 in price falling in a case of a market downturn. Those who can afford full market prices and are ineligible for grants have to buy and bear their own risks.

Although the PAP treasury uses a consolidated account accounting, if one looks carefully, one can realise that the grant is not free money. It's at least partially transfer money to balance the market. Transfer from where? The levies that are imposed on second time buyers on new flats. This redistributes profits from profit-makers to those in need. Isn't that what the socialist model of redistribution of wealth that GMS was advocating?



Exactly, this type of detailed high economics should be reserved for Parliament debating if he actually gets in. But he has to get in first. To start with, stop confusing or annoying voters into losing confidence.

 

[Tristan]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

My advise to any opposition is this: Never, ever raise any issue with PAP giving out grants to voters. You are toeing a very sensitive line and lose out every which way you look at it.

When someone who is in power gives, never criticise them. People may think you are mean and will never consider grants or give out support when you are in the same position. The last thing you want is for people to think you don't have their interests at heart.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Ever suspected GMS of being a paid saboteur? He sure is doing a pretty good job. I think he deserve his 3 mth bonus like all civil servants.

 

[Tan Kim Kim]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Originally Posted by NamQiong
Let provide more details here.

Back in the old forum at delphi, there was already plenty of mudslingings going on over GMS's conduct to some elderlies in an AMK coffeeshop. According to eye witnesses, he and some guys threaten a couple of uncles over some misunderstanding. Then a forummer (can't remember the nick) posted a link which indicated GMS had visited this site www.sggirls.com, where all kind saucy pictures of young girls (some even in sec school uniform) that is sexual in nature. You can visit this site to see for yourself. GMS blew his top and launched a tirade against this forummer that is worse that what he did now. TODAY newspaper reported about it and WP Low Thia Khiang called for a meeting to blast GMS and imposed restrictions on internet posting. GMS objected and LowTK asked to fuck off from WP. Chia TL also resigned in protest because he was also very active defending GMS in the forum. After leaving WP, GMS then boasted in the forum that LTK and SL begged him to stay but he wanted to do something "bigger".

GMS then posted in the forum that he wanted to set up a new party by himself. He wanted to name it "New Workers' Party". All the WP forum members promptly fucked him upside down, and he abandon the idea. Then he joined NSP and bragged about his plan to set up a training course for training politicians and he will act as a "mentor" for them. Yes, don't laugh, that is what he posted in the forum. Well, this loud-mouth egoistic I-am-better-than-everyone GMS abandon his plan when he find that it was the joke of the town.
:oIo:

 

[Ramseth]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

GMS then posted in the forum that he wanted to set up a new party by himself. He wanted to name it "New Workers' Party". All the WP forum members promptly fucked him upside down, and he abandon the idea. Then he joined NSP and bragged about his plan to set up a training course for training politicians and he will act as a "mentor" for them. Yes, don't laugh, that is what he posted in the forum. Well, this loud-mouth egoistic I-am-better-than-everyone GMS abandon his plan when he find that it was the joke of the town.
:oIo:

It's title is Dragon-Taming 18 Palms; Chinese edition 降龙十八掌。It's so powerful that it became classified, not to be mass printed and published. There're only two copies of the manuscript in existence, English and Chinese editions. Both are hidden in two separate secret places for security. Political wannabes are treasure-hunting for it high and low all over the island. The Chinese edition is rumoured to offer a better rendition of internal strength instruction 内功心法 to decipher political sarcasm.

 

[BusNo64]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

today i visited my uncle and auntie staying in tampines east blkk 2XX.... out of curiousity i ask my auntie whether she knoe who is goh meng seng.... her reply - 'is it dat guy selling pork in the wet mkt at blk 201?...hahahahaha........ then i ask my uncle whether he knoe wat is NSP...his reply is..."oh nsp...isn't dat the new polytechnic in Wooldlands.. HAHAHAHAHAHAH.... me and my cousins realli cheo kao peng....HAHAHAH

 

[longbow]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Most of Singapore's retirement is in their homes.
Any rejigging of HDB prices will collapse the market and become a disaster.

GMS has this idea of trying to reinvent the market - really silly and DANGEROUS. Horse already out of barn already lah.

What needs to be done is already being done - increase HDB supply and have grants in place to make buying a home affordable.

The biggest mistake they made was ramp up pop without ramping up HDB supply. They forget that it takes up to 4 years to complete HDB flats, hence the unhappiness. With enough supply of new flats, HDBs are affordable. You can get a SengKang 4rm for abour $170K after grants. Finance that over 30 years and monthly payment is small.

And please, please, please do not reinvent HDB prices. Most of pop are happy with appreciating asset; one in which they can do a reverse mortagage on or downgrade and take some profit (5rm to 2rm flat).

 

[wikiphile]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Ever suspected GMS of being a paid saboteur? He sure is doing a pretty good job. I think he deserve his 3 mth bonus like all civil servants.

I'm not suprised, the truth is often stranger than fiction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

 

[red amoeba]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

can the opp party come up with something innovative and not tweak or work on existing policies?

It is always easy to poke holes at policies existing...how about suggesting new measures....or solutions.

grants to me, very simple - if i am the seller, i will add 40K to the selling price - its given by the gahmen...why not....if i am first time buyer - i will factor in 40k into my affordability...does it make me easier to afford a flat? Not really..

 

[Ramseth]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Six opposition parties churning out so many policies and ideologies. Which one is contesting for government? None. Are they forming a coalition with common cause and common front and big enough to contest for government? No. For example in the case of Malaysia, BN (UMNO + MCA + MIC + etc.) versus PR (PKR + PAS + DAP).

Hoping for a post-election negotiated coalition government in case somehow all winning opposition MPs combined cross the half-way line? For example, in the case of UK a coalition government was formed after elections return a hung Parliament.

 

[manokie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

if GMS has aimed to just get the attention of voters, he has succeeded..but it takes more than just recognition that will upseat MBT
tampines afterall is a well-ran GRC, isn't it?

 

[Char_Azn]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Curious about this grant. Do PRs & new citizens qualify for the grant

What is to prevent them from running away after they get this grant?

New citizens yes, PRs no. As far as government is concern: New Citizen = SG Citizen = no different from Old Citizen

 

[jixiaolan]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Most of Singapore's retirement is in their homes.
Any rejigging of HDB prices will collapse the market and become a disaster.

GMS has this idea of trying to reinvent the market - really silly and DANGEROUS. Horse already out of barn already lah.

What needs to be done is already being done - increase HDB supply and have grants in place to make buying a home affordable.

The biggest mistake they made was ramp up pop without ramping up HDB supply. They forget that it takes up to 4 years to complete HDB flats, hence the unhappiness. With enough supply of new flats, HDBs are affordable. You can get a SengKang 4rm for abour $170K after grants. Finance that over 30 years and monthly payment is small.

And please, please, please do not reinvent HDB prices. Most of pop are happy with appreciating asset; one in which they can do a reverse mortagage on or downgrade and take some profit (5rm to 2rm flat).

Pls lah, dun be stupid. Let me ask you how many new HDB build in a year. From as low as 4,ooo in recent low to abt 2o,ooo BTO offered this year, how much in term of percentage to the existing resale market? Din HDB just announced that they have just build the first million unit? Whether annual output is 4,ooo or 2o,ooo, that amount is only a droplet in a pool.

Do you mean if HDB decide today to price BTO at cost, the entire resale market will collapse when these units will only be available for resale in nearly 8 years later (3 years to build + 5 years owner occupancy before the buyer can sell them in the resale market).

Personally, i also support GMS's view that in order to assure all Singaporeans and our future generations that HDB remains affordable, the only way is to sell at cost because only then HDB got no choice but to open up the book.

 

[jixiaolan]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

My advise to any opposition is this: Never, ever raise any issue with PAP giving out grants to voters. You are toeing a very sensitive line and lose out every which way you look at it.

When someone who is in power gives, never criticise them. People may think you are mean and will never consider grants or give out support when you are in the same position. The last thing you want is for people to think you don't have their interests at heart.

The problem is grant is not free cash. It is actually toxic money, money that need to be pay back. Perhaps, not being so obvious to you now. Money dun fall from the sky and dun be so naive to think that the grants are generated from the resale levy tax. If really so, how can the government claimed they have incurred billion dollar losses each year for building public housing?

I hope that you guys are smart enuff to realise the more grant you receive, the more debt you will incur and the higher price you and yr future generations will have to pay, end up leaving nothing in your cpf account that is meant solely for the purpose of retirement. That is why i was shocked when Mr Mah suggested that we can monetise our HDB by leasing it back to the HDB to fund our retirement. This option seems reasonable but to reiterate that HDB is affordable and will continue to be affordable reminds me of this ===> when you cheated on me once, shame on you but when you managed to cheat me again, shame on me. Well, the choice is really yours.

 

[Zombie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

From as low as 4,ooo in recent low to abt 2o,ooo BTO offered this year, how much in term of percentage to the existing resale market? Din HDB just announced that they have just build the first million unit? Whether annual output is 4,ooo or 2o,ooo, that amount is only a droplet in a pool.

if you say that:
new flats supply is x% of total existing flat units, then price drop will be confined by around x%

then you are also saying that:
since price increased by 60% over last 4 years, it means that the total number of hdb flat owners must have increased by around 60% over last 4 years too....

 

[longbow]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Who cares about how many flats HDB has built. What matters is whether they can meet current supply.

There are about 50K babies born a year. That translates to about 25K potential marriages (does not factor if marry foreigners) so potential for up to 25K flats a year. Then you have Singaporeans that die and pass on their flats to their kids or sell them in the market (that is still supply).

All in all if HDB puts in 20K to 25K new units a year they should meet supply.

Pls lah, dun be stupid. Let me ask you how many new HDB build in a year. From as low as 4,ooo in recent low to abt 2o,ooo BTO offered this year, how much in term of percentage to the existing resale market? Din HDB just announced that they have just build the first million unit? Whether annual output is 4,ooo or 2o,ooo, that amount is only a droplet in a pool.

Do you mean if HDB decide today to price BTO at cost, the entire resale market will collapse when these units will only be available for resale in nearly 8 years later (3 years to build + 5 years owner occupancy before the buyer can sell them in the resale market).

Personally, i also support GMS's view that in order to assure all Singaporeans and our future generations that HDB remains affordable, the only way is to sell at cost because only then HDB got no choice but to open up the book.

 

[longbow]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Grants are a form of wealth distribution.

The problem is grant is not free cash. It is actually toxic money, money that need to be pay back. Perhaps, not being so obvious to you now. Money dun fall from the sky and dun be so naive to think that the grants are generated from the resale levy tax. If really so, how can the government claimed they have incurred billion dollar losses each year for building public housing?

I hope that you guys are smart enuff to realise the more grant you receive, the more debt you will incur and the higher price you and yr future generations will have to pay, end up leaving nothing in your cpf account that is meant solely for the purpose of retirement. That is why i was shocked when Mr Mah suggested that we can monetise our HDB by leasing it back to the HDB to fund our retirement. This option seems reasonable but to reiterate that HDB is affordable and will continue to be affordable reminds me of this ===> when you cheated on me once, shame on you but when you managed to cheat me again, shame on me. Well, the choice is really yours.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Ever suspected GMS of being a paid saboteur? He sure is doing a pretty good job. I think he deserve his 3 mth bonus like all civil servants.

After all these years of watching GMS "in action" I can tell you he is not a paid agent. Paid agents don't do this. They will tell you they will care for the ward. No, no, GMS is not paid.

I will vote for a man who can eat enough rice to starve an entire platoon (according to cleareyes). Or even a man who steals bicycles and puts the chain across the library door like Queer XP bin hee heng. Oh hell, I'd even vote for Ramseth the huge ego maniac at this juncture (frightening that thought may seem...)

But a man who wants to take away housing grant?

Does he even know the root cause of the housing problem?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I'm not suprised, the truth is often stranger than fiction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

You are no amateur then! Cheers.