5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm ball

[singveld]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

it takes one with real experience of weapons handling to understand the optimum caliber for the average build of a soldier. sinkie average build obviously smaller and weaker. however, vietnamese were able to fight a war of attrition despite carrying larger caliber, but they were using asymmetric strategy and tactics. if viets were equipped with 5.56, would still win due to american lack of political will. for sinkie ns wayangs, the 5.56 will do. don't need gung ho 7.62.

even though vietcong is small, they still use a smaller 7.62 rounds. vietcong is not muslim terrorist, muslim terrorist fight to the dead. Vietcong won because american public do not want to waste any young life on some place they do not even know or understand. american lost the public support, but not the battle during the conflict.

 

[Windsor2012]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

jesus another guy who dun understand stopping power, who care if the guy eventually die, stopping power , i am talking about stopping power, the article is talking about stopping power. They want the stopping power to take out the enemy immediately, not fatally wound him and he still able to shoot back.

Fxxking this forum is full of morons. Can someone with brain care to contribute.

Stupidity and ignorance should be no excuse. This statement says it all "not fatally wound him and he still able to shoot back." Hope one day you got a fatal wound and see whether you can shoot back, lol.

Moreover he talks about "stopping power" as though that means something without any explanation. Tell me what is the difference shooting someone's brains with 5.56 mm or a 7.62 mm bullet?

 

[Windsor2012]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

even though vietcong is small, they still use a smaller 7.62 rounds. vietcong is not muslim terrorist, muslim terrorist fight to the dead. Vietcong won because american public do not want to waste any young life on some place they do not even know or understand. american lost the public support, but not the battle during the conflict.

So the enemy must be terrorists in order we should change to using the 7.62 mm round. If they are not terrorists, 5.56 mm is still ok? What kind of argument is that?

 

[Windsor2012]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

even though vietcong is small, they still use a smaller 7.62 rounds. vietcong is not muslim terrorist, muslim terrorist fight to the dead. Vietcong won because american public do not want to waste any young life on some place they do not even know or understand. american lost the public support, but not the battle during the conflict.

Just google "why the americans lost the vietnam war" is enough for the answers. They lost the war, period.

 

[singveld]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

pls i dun want to argue with moron like you, go and have an education, night school or something, go back to university. It will lower myself to argue with you. I could answer you, but i choose not to, and even if i did, you will not have the brain power to understand.

Stupidity and ignorance should be no excuse. This statement says it all "not fatally wound him and he still able to shoot back." Hope one day you got a fatal wound and see whether you can shoot back, lol.

Moreover he talks about "stopping power" as though that means something without any explanation. Tell me what is the difference shooting someone's brains with 5.56 mm or a 7.62 mm bullet?

 

[Windsor2012]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

pls i dun want to argue with moron like you, go and have an education, night school or something, go back to university. It will lower myself to argue with you. I could answer you, but i choose not to, and even if i did, you will not have the brain power to understand.

Just say you don't want to debate and I will understand. Not many people can debate when they have no idea what they are talking about. It's fine with me as long as you don't post your rubbish and expect others to accept your ideas.

 

[singveld]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

pls keep your discussion to yourself, i have tried to explain to you, but you cannot understand after several tries, what can i do? Please go and disturb another thread with your ignorance. Emperor , house of windsor.

 

[zhihau]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

5.56 or 7.62 or even a .22
the stopping power of the round depends on where the bullet lands.
give it a head shot, it's complete stoppage in almost an instant

 

[vamjok]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

jesus another guy who dun understand stopping power, who care if the guy eventually die, stopping power , i am talking about stopping power, the article is talking about stopping power. They want the stopping power to take out the enemy immediately, not fatally wound him and he still able to shoot back.

Fxxking this forum is full of morons. Can someone with brain care to contribute.

talk cock,
a 5.56 pass through your body with your intestine all fly out. u still got the mood to hold gun fire back?
jiao wei

 

[blackmore]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

Moreover he talks about "stopping power" as though that means something without any explanation. Tell me what is the difference shooting someone's brains with 5.56 mm or a 7.62 mm bullet?

Actually, the difference is to the shooter's satisfaction when the bullet impact on the intended target. If anyone shoot long enough like on a daily level; the mindset is on the target being hit and how well it has been hit. Stopping power literally mean the means to reduce the shooter's stress of managing more targets by reducing the targets as it comes .

 

[Debonerman]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

I remember a page in the book Black Hawk Down mentioning the fact that the US Rangers were amazed to see the thin Somalis taking a few M16 rounds in the torso and running on as if nothing had happened. They attributed it to the 5.56 mm rounds they carried being armoured piercing rather than the standard full metal jackets. On examination of the dead and wounded Somalis they found that their rounds had gone through them like needles. I have no more meat to add to the argument about 5.56mm killing potential as I was a 7.62 man. CG63, SSG69 and Lapuas to be exact. But on googling, here is an authoritative article to fuel up the debate.........

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/09/the-small-arms-calibre-debate/

 

[escher]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

I was GPMG commander. That was really some years ago.
7.62 rounds are fucking heavy and one will cry mother in running around with those rounds.
Or you think you fucking hero and only need to squeeze trigger and other tumbees , or better still, maggots in white carry ammo for you?

Those maggots in white will not be on battle field. They will be over the other side as translators, or laughing on the way to their banks filled with our money.

Our enemies are not other fucktards conjured up by maggots in white to smoke screen themselves

For our real enemies, 5.56 is enough.

The hole a 5.56 make is fucking immaterial compared to what it can tear before coming out.
Dont take my fucking word.
See this
[video=youtube;dOYPxiRldaE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOYPxiRldaE[/video]

 

[sleaguepunter]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

why dun we use the NAZI 7.62mm MG42 round, that is even better.

MG42 not assault rifle lor. which part of MG you dont understand? anyway MG42 rate of fire too high, bloody waste of ammo.

if the people in middle east with temp of 50C can wear body armor, i dun see why we cannot wear, it is to save our soldier life.

yes we are surrounded by terrorists. It is a true plain to see. Why are we spending so much on military?

currently saf issue body armour to soldiers, pieces of kelvars attach to the front and back of the current SBO.(i dunno the current name) personally feel it too heavy and it had been proven that kelvar cannot even stop a 9mm pistol round so dunno understand why saf believe kelvar can stop 5.56 or bigger rifle round.

i've carried gpmg and full boxes of gpmg 7.62mm rounds in weeklong field exercises and cursed that angmo were better built with heavy bones and bigger muscles to carry the beast and its bullets. compared to sbo's loaded with 5.56mm rounds, lucky for sinkie nsmen they don't have to carry full body packs of 7.62mm rounds. ns for wayang only. no need for vast majority of ah boy wayang kulit puppeteers to carry a real man's load.

get yourself a scout bag or something to carry the ammo instead of lugging heavy metal box of 250rds. if not, rambo style, which in my opinion the best way to carry gpmg ammo. a belt can have 70-100 rounds depending of the guy size, my nsf pc allow us to carry ammo this way as the most efficient way as it difficult to carry enough ammo for the three GPMGs that the platoon use in infantry role.

I was GPMG commander. That was really some years ago.
7.62 rounds are fucking heavy and one will cry mother in running around with those rounds.

gpmg commander? a term not found in armour. in armour, the gpmg gunner had no loader and no commander to help him. one man show but i admit most section mates will help him carry spare ammo and also armour dont have mg tripod too.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

seriously, i rather saf change to 7.62 not so much of stopping power but reduce logistics of too many different type of ammo.

but i can see TS point as US invented the colt .45 1911 because the .38 pistol issue by the US army to its officers were found wanting against the Moro rebels. machete waving Moro fighters keep charging despite repeated hits by the .38 wheras a single shot from the .45 will bring down the moro rebel and usually dead. it very popular during the banana wars in the 1920s-1930s which US military were heavily involved. until now, the .45 is still the standard sidearm in the marine corps despite US army switch to the 9mm Beretta.

 

[eatshitndie]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

But on googling, here is an authoritative article to fuel up the debate.........

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2010/09/the-small-arms-calibre-debate/

credit you for quoting that link. it's extremely informative plus the comments that follow the article. you see, when you're serious and not spewing vulgarities, you're a helpful forummer.

in afghanistan, u.s. and nato forces are out-ranged, not necessarily out-gunned. since bigger caliber translates to more mass, more mass with more projectile power affects range and accuracy. and there's no denying that the taliban is elusive due to effective use of terrain and tactics based on long range sniping. agree that it's cumbersome to carry both 5.56mm and 7.62mm in the "golfbag". 6mm and 6.5mm caliber prototypes are undergoing rigorous tests as we post. question is whether the 7mm has legs. the more innovative alternative is an adaptive weapon that can fire both 5.56 and 7.62 rounds, or all kinds of rounds from 5.56 to 7.62.

the terrain in and around sg, ml and indon is different from afghanistan. for anyone to suggest changing munitions by the billions to fight a perceived enemy based on u.s. shortcomings in the gulf and afghan conditions blindly without considering home and neighboring terrain is nuts. just because the u.s. get real hand data from wars in that part of the world should not trigger (pun intended) an overhaul in the already budget-bloated wayang kulit ns system of the saf.

 

[wuqi256]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

My 2 cents worth:

Round for round 7.62mm (referring to 7.62 x 51 and not the 39mm) has more felt recoil as compared to 5.56mm and may thus affect accuracy as compared but the heavier round is less affected by windage, etc over longer distances. The stopping power argument can go on and or as even for side arms, there was considerable argument about .45 round (1911) versus the 9mm (Beretta).

Clearly, there was enough support to continue to justify for the use of the 7.62mm in many areas even though 5.56mm was the given choice in assault weapons. It persisted in MG, rifle and battle rifle use like in the M14 EBR and has always been in demand in certain units. Quite a few rifles, from the modern SCAR to the old Galil, etc can be configured to fire both and for good reason.

End of the day, other than accuracy, in terms of ballistics, the 3 most important factors to stop a man in his dead in his tracks, position, impact and trauma caused. Of course impact and trauma can be tweaked depending on the type of round used but we are referring to standard rounds issued to the infantry. If you combined any of the 2 factors together, you stop a man almost right away, all three together and you have a dead body. All 3 is worth nothing if you miss the intended target completely (centre mass/torso/above neck)

Unlike popular movies, people do not fall down straight away after receiving even fatal shots unless it is to the head but some may keep on coming as adrenaline or being drugged up, etc comes into play. Drugs played a part in many conflict where those sent out to die will receive drugs to numb or even to increase their aggression. Some may remain lucid or angry enough to try to take down their enemies while they still have a breath left. In the different theatres of war even for the one in Vietnam, even though factors such as weight and the ROF may have been inferior, there were always requests for the return of SLRs or M14 for reliability and sheer stopping power.

In terms of logistics, ease of training and having additional rounds without changing mags, the 5.56m would be the winner IMHO but in terms of sheer stopping power, to the man in the field, having the additional power and weight of the 7.62mm would be a crucial factor to stop that tango from hurting yourself or any of your buddies.

 

[Gunslinger]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

im surprised there are so many forum members here that know so much about weapons. kind of scary.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

So the enemy must be terrorists in order we should change to using the 7.62 mm round. If they are not terrorists, 5.56 mm is still ok? What kind of argument is that?

To be exact it is muslim terrorists that these bigger bullets are intended for. These satanic worshippers prefer to die than to live. After getting shot, they celebrate and continue trying to kill as many innocent people as they can. Most terrorists are not like muslim terrorists.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

im surprised there are so many forum members here that know so much about weapons. kind of scary.

The SAF has its paper generals. This forum has its paper weapons experts.

 

[Slayer]

Re: 5.56mm ball is not enough for muslim terrorists, when will SAF change to 7.62mm b

The combat experience of ah moh show us that 5.56mm on muslim are not enough, they fight til the end, when will PAP stop wayang and give us 7.62 mm gun and bullet proof protection.We are surrounded by muslim terrorist, we need an upgrade to our gun.

Please also remove m&d who cannot throw grenade from our force.

Continue to be yourself and comment as u like and ignore those YPAP IB clones who are against democratic countries with transparency while supporting authoritarian regimes like China, Russian, North Korea, Iran etc.. They are just behaving like the PAP.