You must try Ubuntu 9.04

[uncleyap]

I am new to this VM thing. How much disk space is required to run another OS using VM? Is 2 gig of RAM enough to run one OS and another OS using VM?

There is no difference in this aspect with real PC. You setup virtual disks sufficient for your OS & data. There are tiny OS that needs 100MB or less there are huge setup that swallows 100GB. I can put a typical Linux desktop in less than 5GB with office suite and other standard packages. MS XP in 3.5GB including firefox and Open Office.

Virtual disk allow you NOT to preallocated space, so you can declare a huge disk but the empty sectors not taking space on your actual HDD. You can configure a virtual disk to be split into a bunch of 2GB sized files on your actual HDD, so they will fit in FAT32 partitions. I don't use FAT32 on my HDD, but I sometimes split into 2GB files so that I can burn into 4.7GB DVD-Rs (2 fragments into a DVD-R).

I had helped users with tiny RAM use virtual PCs, some have only 750MB total system RAM. But then you can not run VM of large RAM. Virutual Machine resources are allocated from your actual resources, CPU power & RAM & Disk & IO like wise. If you have more than you can use more. You can not exceed your actual physical limits.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

There is no difference in this aspect with real PC. You setup virtual disks sufficient for your OS & data. There are tiny OS that needs 100MB or less there are huge setup that swallows 100GB. I can put a typical Linux desktop in less than 5GB with office suite and other standard packages. MS XP in 3.5GB including firefox and Open Office.

Virtual disk allow you NOT to preallocated space, so you can declare a huge disk but the empty sectors not taking space on your actual HDD. You can configure a virtual disk to be split into a bunch of 2GB sized files on your actual HDD, so they will fit in FAT32 partitions. I don't use FAT32 on my HDD, but I sometimes split into 2GB files so that I can burn into 4.7GB DVD-Rs (2 fragments into a DVD-R).

I had helped users with tiny RAM use virtual PCs, some have only 750MB total system RAM. But then you can not run VM of large RAM. Virutual Machine resources are allocated from your actual resources, CPU power & RAM & Disk & IO like wise. If you have more than you can use more. You can not exceed your actual physical limits.

Nowadays ram and hdd space is so cheap i mean who has less than 1 GB of ram in his pc? EVen if that is that case this person ought to upgrade by at least buying 1 more GB. Yes i know some ppl might only have 256 or 512mb but they can buy 1 more GB of ram cheaply and hey their pc will run smoothly.

 

[Ripley]

There is no difference in this aspect with real PC. You setup virtual disks sufficient for your OS & data. There are tiny OS that needs 100MB or less there are huge setup that swallows 100GB. I can put a typical Linux desktop in less than 5GB with office suite and other standard packages. MS XP in 3.5GB including firefox and Open Office.

Virtual disk allow you NOT to preallocated space, so you can declare a huge disk but the empty sectors not taking space on your actual HDD. You can configure a virtual disk to be split into a bunch of 2GB sized files on your actual HDD, so they will fit in FAT32 partitions. I don't use FAT32 on my HDD, but I sometimes split into 2GB files so that I can burn into 4.7GB DVD-Rs (2 fragments into a DVD-R).

I had helped users with tiny RAM use virtual PCs, some have only 750MB total system RAM. But then you can not run VM of large RAM. Virutual Machine resources are allocated from your actual resources, CPU power & RAM & Disk & IO like wise. If you have more than you can use more. You can not exceed your actual physical limits.

Thanks very much for the infos.

 

[uncleyap]

Nowadays ram and hdd space is so cheap i mean who has less than 1 GB of ram in his pc? EVen if that is that case this person ought to upgrade by at least buying 1 more GB. Yes i know some ppl might only have 256 or 512mb but they can buy 1 more GB of ram cheaply and hey their pc will run smoothly.

Usually it is a matter of just $$$$$$$ :p

In rare occasions I come across of user who can not use advanced hardware due to compatibility issues with old equipments. I had helped users who must die die run i486 board in old machineries. Ironically these old machineries are the production equipments (of factory automation) to make some most advanced electronics parts!

Some of the most stable / reliable old faithful production machineries that factories had counted on still run DOS and are still used today.

Another irony is that if you went to Sim Lim Square today to get some of the latest and advanced IT products, you may find that your supplier still use a cash register to collect your payment which runs on DOS. If you went up to 6th floor of Sim Lim there is a cash register company named I think POISE they are selling these DOS based cash registers until today.

As far as I can, I convert users to run on 64biit Linux dual core at least. This is affordable and economical at the present. RAM between 2GB-8GB depending on users' purpose. If a user insist to have MS then provide virtual machine running XP crap as a transitional measure. Very soon after using Linux they will find it easy and reliable, they will gradually use their MS XP crap lesser by each month and eventually phase it out.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Usually it is a matter of just $$$$$$$ :p

In rare occasions I come across of user who can not use advanced hardware due to compatibility issues with old equipments. I had helped users who must die die run i486 board in old machineries. Ironically these old machineries are the production equipments (of factory automation) to make some most advanced electronics parts!

Some of the most stable / reliable old faithful production machineries that factories had counted on still run DOS and are still used today.

Another irony is that if you went to Sim Lim Square today to get some of the latest and advanced IT products, you may find that your supplier still use a cash register to collect your payment which runs on DOS. If you went up to 6th floor of Sim Lim there is a cash register company named I think POISE they are selling these DOS based cash registers until today.

As far as I can, I convert users to run on 64biit Linux dual core at least. This is affordable and economical at the present. RAM between 2GB-8GB depending on users' purpose. If a user insist to have MS then provide virtual machine running XP crap as a transitional measure. Very soon after using Linux they will find it easy and reliable, they will gradually use their MS XP crap lesser by each month and eventually phase it out.

ARe these shops using dos based type of cash registers using them just for nostelgia's sake? Or is it to protect against a scenerio such as a break down in a pc for eg?



Using this type of logic it's like some ppl should watch black and white tv or maybe use a walkman rather than mp3 player. Who knows they might be around.

 

[uncleyap]

ARe these shops using dos based type of cash registers using them just for nostelgia's sake? Or is it to protect against a scenerio such as a break down in a pc for eg?



Using this type of logic it's like some ppl should watch black and white tv or maybe use a walkman rather than mp3 player. Who knows they might be around.

I can not speak for those using DOS cash registers. These are really 16-bit systems! If you had core2 Dual or AMD64 Dual-Core CPUs running DOS you are using only using 1/8 th of your CPU, if you got Quad-Core then you are only using 1/16 th of your CPU!

:p

But again, in reality, PC are today TOO POWERFUL & OVER-KILL for these Simple applications such as a Cash Register. Really, if you are not connecting NETS; Credit Card; WAN; LAN & DB just registering simple cash + scan bar-code + print receipts, actually 8 bit system is sufficient, and DOS can surely handle.

Even for Mega-Mart's most complicated system 32-bit should be really enough.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

I can not speak for those using DOS cash registers. These are really 16-bit systems! If you had core2 Dual or AMD64 Dual-Core CPUs running DOS you are using only using 1/8 th of your CPU, if you got Quad-Core then you are only using 1/16 th of your CPU!

:p

But again, in reality, PC are today TOO POWERFUL & OVER-KILL for these Simple applications such as a Cash Register. Really, if you are not connecting NETS; Credit Card; WAN; LAN & DB just registering simple cash + scan bar-code + print receipts, actually 8 bit system is sufficient, and DOS can surely handle.

Even for Mega-Mart's most complicated system 32-bit should be really enough.

Imagine using an i7 for dos what would it be then? 1/32?



Yes hardware is ahead. IN fact even in games. Most games do not even require that high a hardware and there are motherboard out there that allow u to fit in 2 or 3 Gpus which are high end to process those games. SOme of these gpus are dual cores themselves. Overkill.

In the end the only applications that need lots of cpu or graphical processing power are video encoding and editing and graphics design.

 

[uncleyap]

Imagine using an i7 for dos what would it be then? 1/32?



Yes hardware is ahead. IN fact even in games. Most games do not even require that high a hardware and there are motherboard out there that allow u to fit in 2 or 3 Gpus which are high end to process those games. SOme of these gpus are dual cores themselves. Overkill.

In the end the only applications that need lots of cpu or graphical processing power are video encoding and editing and graphics design.

Nope! I7 is still only a quad core. Same as AMD so when running 16 bit DOS it is 1/16th the processor used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_3

The factor is DOS use only 1 of the 4 cores. So that is only a quarter of that quad core chip. Further each core is 64 bit but DOS only use 16 bit that is another quarter of that 1st quarter, hence 1/16 th in use.

Only thing about i7 is that for 2nd time Intel is catching up with AMD from BEHIND, to integrate the North Bridge inside processor chip. AMD had it done long ago. The 1st time Intel catch up from behind AMD was with x86_64 architecture after ditching it's own expensive IA64 architecture (Itanuium). AMD has Hypertransport and Intel still don't. Intel play with a QuickPath, it's spec shows no match:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTransport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickPath

HyperTransport reach 51Gbps QuickPath only @ 32Gbps. Intel is BEHIND!

However Intel i7 has more L3 cache on chip (8MB) AMD as either 4MB or 6MB L3 cache on chip. The logical thread Hyper-threading of Intel is only a logical advantage, it is NOT really supported by a FULL extra set of processor, it is faked and cheating to impress people, without really able to increase much of performance. I don't think AMD will implement that feature.

Please don't get wrongly impressed by Intel, unless you buy the i7 extreme, it is not going to beat AMD Phenom 4. AMD is more economical, value for $$$$!

 

[Lee Hsien Tau]

Nope! I7 is still only a quad core. Same as AMD so when running 16 bit DOS it is 1/16th the processor used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_3

The factor is DOS use only 1 of the 4 cores. So that is only a quarter of that quad core chip. Further each core is 64 bit but DOS only use 16 bit that is another quarter of that 1st quarter, hence 1/16 th in use.

Only thing about i7 is that for 2nd time Intel is catching up with AMD from BEHIND, to integrate the North Bridge inside processor chip. AMD had it done long ago. The 1st time Intel catch up from behind AMD was with x86_64 architecture after ditching it's own expensive IA64 architecture (Itanuium). AMD has Hypertransport and Intel still don't. Intel play with a QuickPath, it's spec shows no match:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTransport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickPath

HyperTransport reach 51Gbps QuickPath only @ 32Gbps. Intel is BEHIND!

However Intel i7 has more L3 cache on chip (8MB) AMD as either 4MB or 6MB L3 cache on chip. The logical thread Hyper-threading of Intel is only a logical advantage, it is NOT really supported by a FULL extra set of processor, it is faked and cheating to impress people, without really able to increase much of performance. I don't think AMD will implement that feature.

Please don't get wrongly impressed by Intel, unless you buy the i7 extreme, it is not going to beat AMD Phenom 4. AMD is more economical, value for $$$$!

Dr Tsoi Wing Foo, ex-IMH director still using DOS and Word-Star leh!

Very very old machine. He should be around the age of National hero Ong Kah Chua.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_X4bmEaKLsgI/RcFrRuBy_GI/AAAAAAAAAFw/xee2vsZf7Cs/s1600-h/x121.jpg

was printed using that very old machine. And it cost $300.00

Talk about wringing an old horse for the bang.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Nope! I7 is still only a quad core. Same as AMD so when running 16 bit DOS it is 1/16th the processor used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_3

The factor is DOS use only 1 of the 4 cores. So that is only a quarter of that quad core chip. Further each core is 64 bit but DOS only use 16 bit that is another quarter of that 1st quarter, hence 1/16 th in use.

Only thing about i7 is that for 2nd time Intel is catching up with AMD from BEHIND, to integrate the North Bridge inside processor chip. AMD had it done long ago. The 1st time Intel catch up from behind AMD was with x86_64 architecture after ditching it's own expensive IA64 architecture (Itanuium). AMD has Hypertransport and Intel still don't. Intel play with a QuickPath, it's spec shows no match:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTransport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickPath

HyperTransport reach 51Gbps QuickPath only @ 32Gbps. Intel is BEHIND!

However Intel i7 has more L3 cache on chip (8MB) AMD as either 4MB or 6MB L3 cache on chip. The logical thread Hyper-threading of Intel is only a logical advantage, it is NOT really supported by a FULL extra set of processor, it is faked and cheating to impress people, without really able to increase much of performance. I don't think AMD will implement that feature.

Please don't get wrongly impressed by Intel, unless you buy the i7 extreme, it is not going to beat AMD Phenom 4. AMD is more economical, value for $$$$!

Thanks for the info on amd vs intel. I do not know much about amd Motherboards. I read that phenoom has like only 3 working cores and that 1 core is locked or something?


Btw i dunno why but when u use a benchmark called 3dmarks they show the i7 as having 8 cores rather than 4 i wonder why.

 

[uncleyap]

There is a historical PC (i286) that I regret not making sufficient effort to preserve. That is one from the office of late Mr. JBJ. It was a DOS system also with Word-Star, with a GREEN monochrome monitor. I 1st saw it in his Colombo Court Office in 1980s, after all these years it was still around until 2006, after late Mr. JBJ moved several offices.

I had with helps from other activists setup AMD Athlon 3200 Linux system for him. Then Mr. Ng Teck Siong had due to the tiny office space junked the valuable antique PC of late JBJ, what a waste! I knew about it after it was gone! Could had kept it for a priceless exhibit in the proposed monumental memorail for JBJ. He was a great nostagic person. He used old furniture, old bags, and old clothes. The suit which he was wearing on his final journey was also very old, I collected it with Mr. Ng Teck Siong, with Mr. Edmund Ng driving, from the home of Mr. Keneth Jeya, that maid brought it downstairs to the car, and we sent it to Singapore Casket, to have it dressed on late Mr. JBJ. That leather belt and shoes, all the same. Nothing new nothing luxurious. The total opposite of vain bloody PAp.

 

[Ripley]

Dr Tsoi Wing Foo, ex-IMH director still using DOS and Word-Star leh!

Very very old machine. He should be around the age of National hero Ong Kah Chua.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_X4bmEaKLsgI/RcFrRuBy_GI/AAAAAAAAAFw/xee2vsZf7Cs/s1600-h/x121.jpg

was printed using that very old machine. And it cost $300.00

Talk about wringing an old horse for the bang.

How about Lotus 123

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

There is a historical PC (i286) that I regret not making sufficient effort to preserve. That is one from the office of late Mr. JBJ. It was a DOS system also with Word-Star, with a GREEN monochrome monitor. I 1st saw it in his Colombo Court Office in 1980s, after all these years it was still around until 2006, after late Mr. JBJ moved several offices.

I had with helps from other activists setup AMD Athlon 3200 Linux system for him. Then Mr. Ng Teck Siong had due to the tiny office space junked the valuable antique PC of late JBJ, what a waste! I knew about it after it was gone! Could had kept it for a priceless exhibit in the proposed monumental memorail for JBJ. He was a great nostagic person. He used old furniture, old bags, and old clothes. The suit which he was wearing on his final journey was also very old, I collected it with Mr. Ng Teck Siong, with Mr. Edmund Ng driving, from the home of Mr. Keneth Jeya, that maid brought it downstairs to the car, and we sent it to Singapore Casket, to have it dressed on late Mr. JBJ. That leather belt and shoes, all the same. Nothing new nothing luxurious. The total opposite of vain bloody PAp.

As u know PAP is famous for tearing down relatively new stuff and replacing them with new stuff. That's okay but yet it's mindlessly using the country's money. Of course they also raise taxes and although it looks good the service still sucks.

 

[uncleyap]

As u know PAP is famous for tearing down relatively new stuff and replacing them with new stuff. That's okay but yet it's mindlessly using the country's money. Of course they also raise taxes and although it looks good the service still sucks.

That is famiLEE LEEgime's classic way of managing their FALSEHOOD, kept beautifying the exterior and presentation to wrap the ugly reality inside layer by layer, squandering OUR money to paint the beautiful false picture, hoping to fool people.

Otherwise the falsehood could not sustain. They could had been exposed much earlier, you know? Emperor's New Clothes vs late Mr. JBJ's old clothes.

 

[tonychat]

That is famiLEE LEEgime's classic way of managing their FALSEHOOD, kept beautifying the exterior and presentation to wrap the ugly reality inside layer by layer, squandering OUR money to paint the beautiful false picture, hoping to fool people.

Otherwise the falsehood could not sustain. They could had been exposed much earlier, you know? Emperor's New Clothes vs late Mr. JBJ's old clothes.

I agree with this. Using sinkies money and fool them. And it succeed!!!! That is why i lose my respect for sinkies. ANd then sinkie is all too willing to bend down for them.

 

[Eurekas]

That is famiLEE LEEgime's classic way of managing their FALSEHOOD, kept beautifying the exterior and presentation to wrap the ugly reality inside layer by layer, squandering OUR money to paint the beautiful false picture, hoping to fool people.

Otherwise the falsehood could not sustain. They could had been exposed much earlier, you know? Emperor's New Clothes vs late Mr. JBJ's old clothes.

Hi Uncle Yap,

I also think the PAP regime is a sort of illusion, beautiful face but ulgy backside and PAP is very good in using media to cover its backside. We heard about the Wayang Ministers (Lim Suay Suay, Ass Loong, Wooden Goh, Dr Vivian etc) promising a more open Singapore but they are intent in keeping on their power and wealth. I know of several friends many other people who are so poor that they are barely keeping themselves alive.

 

[uncleyap]

Hi Uncle Yap,

I also think the PAP regime is a sort of illusion, beautiful face but ulgy backside and PAP is very good in using media to cover its backside. We heard about the Wayang Ministers (Lim Suay Suay, Ass Loong, Wooden Goh, Dr Vivian etc) promising a more open Singapore but they are intent in keeping on their power and wealth. I know of several friends many other people who are so poor that they are barely keeping themselves alive.

That is FALSEHOOD loh. Entirely WHITE-WASHED, and DISCONNECTED with reality.