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WP's asking for cheaper HDB flats irresponsible, says Mah Bow Tan

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Alfrescian
Loyal
WP's housing proposal irresponsible, says Mah
Ask how it is going to pay for the plan in its manifesto, says minister
By Teo Wan Gek
n557007785_585455_4814.jpg

NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan yesterday called the Workers' Party (WP) 'irresponsible' for proposing cheaper HDB flats without explaining how it planned to pay for them.

The government subsidy on new HDB flats already adds up to $1 billion a year.

If the WP wants a larger subsidy, does it plan to fund it by cutting government spending in other areas, Mr Mah asked, because 'you can't get something for nothing'.

'Is it going to come from education? From health care? From defence? They didn't say.

'Or if they say it is not going to come from any of this, are they going to raise taxes? Or are they going to dip into the reserves?' he said in his first response to the opposition party's housing proposals contained in its manifesto.

The WP's proposal to peg the prices of new HDB flats to median incomes of households that qualify to buy them, instead of to resale market prices, would also lower the value of Singapore's one million homes, Mr Mah warned.

He called it 'an asset devaluation policy', as opposed to the People's Action Party's asset enhancement policy.

This is because the markets are interlinked. So, a reduction in new HDB flat prices will have an impact on the resale flat market.

'Flat prices will be devalued, they will be depressed,' he said.

'What happens to those people who want to sell, who are in mortgage arrears? It will be negative equity.'

These are some of the implications of the ideas the WP is testing out in its manifesto and which 'they have not thought through', the minister said on the sidelines of a Urban Redevelopment Authority event yesterday.

He also responded to WP chairman Sylvia Lim's comment that the impact on resale flat prices will take some time to filter through the system because new HDB flats are subject to a holding period.

Mr Mah's response: 'That is like saying don't worry, the tsunami is going to hit you, but only in a few hours' time.'

Like other ministers who have spoken on the WP manifesto, Mr Mah urged Singaporeans to ask the opposition party for more comprehensive answers.

As the WP has said it aspires to form the Government, that must mean it also plans to implement the policies it has proposed.

'If they are going to implement these policies, then they better tell Singaporeans what the implications are, what the full repercussions of the policies are rather than just talk about one aspect of it,' he said.

'The manifesto does not talk about where the money is coming from. I think that is irresponsible.'

Mr Mah also said that the WP's intention seems to be to reduce flat prices.

While it has not said by how much, Mr Mah yesterday gave some estimates of the cost of the Government's housing programme, to give a sense of the large sums involved.

The HDB plans to build 22,000 flats this year. Assuming the average cost of a new flat is $300,000, the total bill for this year would be $6.6 billion.

If the WP hopes to reduce flat prices by, say, 20 per cent, that would mean an extra subsidy of $1 billion dollars.

'Where is the WP going to get this extra $1 billion?' he asked.

Mr Mah also rebutted WP council member Gerald Giam's point that the high prices of HDB flats were due to the PAP's asset enhancement policies of the past 20 years.

There is nothing wrong with giving Singaporeans an asset, and even less so in making sure that asset grows in value, said the minister, who has been in charge of housing since 1999.

'I want to say we are proud of the asset enhancement policy. The policy is what has given almost all Singaporeans a home of their own, a home that is also an asset.

'It is an asset that grows in value over time, with the growth of the economy and also with all the upgrading programmes that the Government has put in place,' he said.

[email protected]
 

streetsmart73

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
hi there

1. some farting horse.
2. erh! horse does fart after all.
3. full of gas and hollow inside.
 

Char_Azn

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The whole problem of flat prices comes from the lack of supply. All this happened because this bumbling idiot caused it

Mah_Bow_Tan.gif


No.1 Culprit

He said it himself during his defence of his own housing policy. Before 06 election, we have a problem, too much flats built so some new towns have their house value drop drastically coz there was an oversupply. Auditor General also not happy. He claimed that just because it was a localized problem doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. So he made less houses after that.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! HE UPGRADED A LOCAL PROBLEM INTO A NATIONAL PROBLEM


EPIC FAIL
 

red amoeba

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
they created this monster - thats why you cannot tame it.

The cost of land to HDB is minimal. Via tendering for HDB construction projects, the costs are minimum. Why can't HDB sell their flats at cost price or cost price + small %? It can be transparent. Of course, you can still hve the tiered pricing where higher floors cost more, etc. But effectively, the price is transparent.

Now the second part of the equation - because of this monster that they hve created. Those already own flats will not like to see their resale value plummet. What to do with them? Bcos if the disparity between new flats and resale are like 40 -60%, its simple mathematics that the home owners face downward pressure.

The only way, is to pay off the price difference if they sell - but si beh costly and frm where to get the $$ from.

Its easy to tackle the first part, but extremely difficult to tackle the second part simply because of this ugly monster that has grown so big.
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
The HDB cannot sell cheap to sinkees or else where to get profits to fund the ministers high salaries ???
 

Equalisation

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
.... the buiding cost of an hdb flat is surprisingly little ... to say the least ..... profits then banyak banyak binya !!
 

yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
This is what happens to a political party that tries to ape the PAP instead of being original.

Like it or not, MBT asked all the right questions here. To be fair, WP gifted MBT with an open goal.

If WP's proposal to peg flat sale to median income ever see the light of day, what will happen to those home owners still servicing their bank mortgage? The banks are going to take the first opportunity to ask debtors to made good the difference between loan outstanding and current resale value that would likely be 20 or 30% lower.

Which idiot will after all buy a resale flat, when a brand new flat from HDB is pegged to median income? And exactly how is WP going to deal with all that demand? Build more and more flats? What then happens to resale value?

The Worker's Party instead of hammering MBT for the cost breakdown per flat, started truly believing they were the alternate party to the PAP and came out with hodgepodge excuse for a HDB alternative.



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ahleebabasingaporethief

Alfrescian
Loyal
n557007785_585455_4814.jpg

NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan with his hand around the waist of this woman. Who is this woman?

Ministerial protocal clearly states that they are NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH people EXCEPT handshakes and a pat on their back.

This is clearly outside MINISTERIAL PROTOCOL. MIW better withdraw his candidacy.

THIS PHOTO IS SCANDALOUS.

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halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
hi there

1. some farting horse.
2. erh! horse does fart after all.
3. full of gas and hollow inside.

Do 'hobbits' fart?? Tolkkien did not mention this?? Where on earth did the government get the money to Subsidized us for our flats?, are we paying zero percantage for the flat we bought? do we have a title to the property after we have fully paid for it...

We are not asking for cheap flats, we are asking for prices we can afford to pay...oh! I forgot....'shortie' mentioned that his dad flat at kim keat was a palace...ohh!!
 

Wang Ye

Alfrescian
Loyal
Where on earth did the government get the money to Subsidized us for our flats?, are we paying zero percantage for the flat we bought? do we have a title to the property after we have fully paid for it...

It's a lease, not the same as outright property.
 

Tiu Kwang Yew

Alfrescian
Loyal
Public House pegs To median income is good.

But becos HDB has becum a monster , down price also die, up also die!

PAP is caught in the m&d, they will defend the fake high price at all costs.

What WP can do is to ask MBT to break the detailed conctruction costs of HDB flats and show it the voters !

Besides, land cost cannot be one of the factor becos the lease will end and will return to govt when 99 yrs is up !
 

cooleo

Alfrescian
Loyal
Public House pegs To median income is good.

But becos HDB has becum a monster , down price also die, up also die!

PAP is caught in the m&d, they will defend the fake high price at all costs.

What WP can do is to ask MBT to break the detailed conctruction costs of HDB flats and show it the voters !

Besides, land cost cannot be one of the factor becos the lease will end and will return to govt when 99 yrs is up !

Sorry to burst your bubble. Your lease may not even be 99 years if gahmen really wanna fuck u.
 

LeMans2011

Alfrescian
Loyal
If Singaporeans know how to ask the right question it will be: WHY ON EARTH DOES HDB NEED 1 BILLION SUBSIDY A YEAR ??? IS IT BECAUSE THE LAND COST IS DELIBERATELY PUSHED HIGH, OR TRANSFERRED FROM GOVT TO HDB AT HIGH COST, or IS IT BECAUSE HDB IS INEFFICIENT THAT THEY TURN A MONEY MAKING BUSINESS INTO A LOST BUSINESS???

MBT's question is only valid if HDB is selling their flats to you at 80k, and the govt need to fork out 1 billion a year to sustain that. The flats are already sold at blahdy 400k!!!
 
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Balls2U

Alfrescian
Loyal
'The manifesto does not talk about where the money is coming from. I think that is irresponsible.'

But the PAP does not talk about where our money is going to. I think that is far more irresponsible!" :oIo:
 

NoNewsGood

Alfrescian
Loyal
they created this monster - thats why you cannot tame it.

The cost of land to HDB is minimal. Via tendering for HDB construction projects, the costs are minimum. Why can't HDB sell their flats at cost price or cost price + small %? It can be transparent. Of course, you can still hve the tiered pricing where higher floors cost more, etc. But effectively, the price is transparent.

Now the second part of the equation - because of this monster that they hve created. Those already own flats will not like to see their resale value plummet. What to do with them? Bcos if the disparity between new flats and resale are like 40 -60%, its simple mathematics that the home owners face downward pressure.

The only way, is to pay off the price difference if they sell - but si beh costly and frm where to get the $$ from.

Its easy to tackle the first part, but extremely difficult to tackle the second part simply because of this ugly monster that has grown so big.

There is a one off (but painful) solution to the second equation. That is to dig into the reserve and compensate a fixed sum to those owners who paid the higher price in the form of a grant.

This grant could be used to pay off existing mortgage and interest. If there is no more mortgage, the amount could be credited into the owner's CPF special account for his retirement.

The grant could be calculated based on the difference between the new (lower) selling price and the selling price of the flat the owner bought from HDB. For resale flat, the calculation could be based on the difference between the new (lower) selling price and the selling price of the flat the first owner bought from HDB, because the premium the buyer chose to pay for resale flat was freely negotiated.

Maybe for a start, only Singapore citizens who have been citizens for at least 10 years are entitled.
 

Varuna

Alfrescian
Loyal
No matter how hard the questions come to them, they will siam and answer irrelevantly out of the question. In a way it gives people who do not really follow closely to the details the impression that opposition parties are asking stoopid questions, thereby putting bad light on the image of opposition parties. This is my observation so far. If they had accepted live debate challenge, they would never have the chance to apply such tactics. :smile:
 
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tchinkoo

Alfrescian
Loyal
after reading all the post here

i believe there is definitely alot of s'pore talent out there

this is not a joke!!!!
 

ahkow

Alfrescian
Loyal
MBT ask where is the 1 billion going to come from if a discount of 20 percent if given. But does it take the government $300k of cold hard cash to build a flat? If it take only $100k to build a flat, then the obvious answer is that the 1 billion is coming from the government reduced profits from the sale of new flats. Seems there is a lot of unseen accounting game going on here
 
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