Workers' party unveils manifesto, where is NSP manifesto??

[yellow_people]

I checked the WP website CEC list. I don't see his name there.

Whom are you referring to? If its VS, he's an ex-WP member. If its YSL, he's still listed as the Org Sec in the CEC.

As for Sylvia and WP as a whole, they can decide what they deem fit. I don't expect them to oppose PAP policy at every turn.

Likewise so do voters, some of whom may want to make an informed decision. I expect WP to NOT oppose PAP at all; unless its a token opposition. They are what is termed 'fair-weather' politicians. They remained virtually silent since 2006 and now that the elections are around the corner, they seem to be everywhere.


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[yellow_people]

I have nothing personal against SDP too. I don't know anyone in SDP. I just disagree with the style and the dubicity of agenda and source of finance. I hate protests. I've had enough of these nonsense whilst studying in US.

That's just too bad you did not receive a well rounded education in the States. No change for the better will be forthcoming unless the people take an active role in politics.

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[Forvendet]

YSL is one WP member I won't vote for. I'll spoil my vote if his name appears on my ballot. He stood against PAP in one ward and voted for PAP in another ward. That kind of "unprinciple" I can't accept or reconcile.

 

[yellow_people]

A good read, written by a forummer on the 3-in-1 kopitiam.

While it was only Yaw Shin Leong who was revealed to have voted for the PAP candidate in his ward, I would have to question if it is actually Workers Party policy to instruct its candidates to vote the ‘better’ candidate in their respective wards, the shabby excuse profferred by Yaw Shin Leong for his political mishap.

Or design.

If so, how does the Workers Party decide who is the ‘better’ candidate?

From knowing both candidates personally and professionally?

From the personality gossip that we know exists in the opposition parties’ grapevines?

From media coverage, in which case, I would have to question how much media coverage was given to the SDP candidate in Yaw Shin Leong’s case that he could have made an informed decision about who the ‘better’ candidate was?

Does the Workers Party accept PAP’s Indranee Rajah’s explanation in the Feb 27 episode of Talking Point that Singaporeans vote for candidates based on those candidates’ supposedly superior qualities, and that electoral outcomes are not decided because of the MASSIVE defrauding of both the electoral as well as the political system?

Every single Workers Party candidate has to reveal to those whom they are prostituting for votes from how they are intending to vote before they dare ask Singaporeans for their votes.

Why should any Singaporean, especially those who wish to see greater representation by opposition members in Parliament, vote for Workers Party candidates, if the workers Party themselves are not aligned to the other opposition parties?

http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=45577.1


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[Forvendet]

I don't agree that WP or any party owes any obligation to align with any other opposition. I also don't agree with condescending tone as SDP alignment is the standard of measure. Let every party decide themselves. I'm not deluded with any such concept as opposition unity. If there is, there won't be so many parties and party jumpers. That said, my support is generally geared towards WP except this chap YSL. He contested LHL, PM and voted THP as better MP? He thinks he's better than PM when he canvassed for votes in AMK? I dislike LHL but I think YSL is nowhere near him. Should I vote PAP had I lived in AMK? I think not. I'll spoil the vote.

 

[scroobal]

I have must told you this many times. No point finding fault with other opposition until and after you help SDP to get more votes than other opposition figures. Well crafted and argued points sink quickly to the bottom the moment the SDP is brought in and comapred with any other opposition parties. It has never done well. Just go see the results over the last 3 GEs.

Constantly attacking the WP only makes look like sour grapes. What is the use of rounded education when you make comments that don't even gel with your beloved party. You guys got yourself disqualified to appease your western donors and then you appeal to PAP to remove the shackles.

Get a life bro.

That's just too bad you did not receive a well rounded education in the States. No change for the better will be forthcoming unless the people take an active role in politics.

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[scroobal]

No not Jufrie. Jufrie used to write using his real name in the old forum but was poor with framing his viewpoints. Like Ramseth, he got his grammar only right.

This guy is an Indian and close to SDP. Love is blind and you cannot find anyone more blind than this guy when it comes to follies of the SDP. The moment WP does well, even an increase of one vote from the previous, this guy will lose his bundle and begin tirade on the WP.

Simplistic, with large blinders but grasp of written language is excellent. Reminds me of another Indian chap in the old forum called PAPBull or something. Excellent language skills and probably the best but substance is near zero. Also loves the SDP to a fault.

Just banter with him, good for the slow days.

I by now know who you are, Encik Jufrie. You're getting personal with WP. SDP got less than 10 candidates and claim to be able to form next government. WP got between 20 to 30 and humbly admit it's not possible at the next. What do you say? Coalition? These numbers are only candidates, not even winners yet.

 

[yellow_people]

I don't agree that WP or any party owes any obligation to align with any other opposition.

Neither the WP nor the SPP for that matter, are true opposition parties; they're just PAP wannabes.

I also don't agree with condescending tone as SDP alignment is the standard of measure.

Now who said anything about SDP as a standard of measure? Speaking on the subject, you seem to have either been brainwashed by the govt owned press in painting CSJ and SDP in bad light or seem intend on going around making false claims about SDP any substance. I doubt very much you can substantiate your wild claims about SDP when challenged.

There is a reason why PAP gives LTK the thumbs up while bankrolling and stonewalling CSJ and the SDP. LTK and his WP does not threaten the PAP status quo one bit.

At least when I pick WP apart, I do so based on ACTUAL speeches and actions events that have transpired and establish a pattern.


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[yellow_people]

Nice attempt at distraction. Now do you plan on getting to the substance or just plain old verbal masturbation?

No not Jufrie. Jufrie used to write using his real name in the old forum but was poor with framing his viewpoints. Like Ramseth, he got his grammar only right.

This guy is an Indian and close to SDP. Love is blind and you cannot find anyone more blind than this guy when it comes to follies of the SDP. The moment WP does well, even an increase of one vote from the previous, this guy will lose his bundle and begin tirade on the WP.

Simplistic, with large blinders but grasp of written language is excellent. Reminds me of another Indian chap in the old forum called PAPBull or something. Excellent language skills and probably the best but substance is near zero. Also loves the SDP to a fault.

Just banter with him, good for the slow days.

 

[yellow_people]

I've mentioned this several time to you, but am having trouble getting past your thick skull. First, you can't play by the PAP rules and hope to win. And even should WP win the popular mandate, there is every reason to believe from their words and actions, they will be just like the PAP. Second, SDP winning more seats has no bearing on my criticism of WP. SDP can hold their own well enough without needing any help from me.

If An Beng wants to maintain the status quo, by all means vote for WP. Don't expect changes though.

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I have must told you this many times. No point finding fault with other opposition until and after you help SDP to get more votes than other opposition figures. Well crafted and argued points sink quickly to the bottom the moment the SDP is brought in and comapred with any other opposition parties. It has never done well. Just go see the results over the last 3 GEs.

Constantly attacking the WP only makes look like sour grapes. What is the use of rounded education when you make comments that don't even gel with your beloved party. You guys got yourself disqualified to appease your western donors and then you appeal to PAP to remove the shackles.

Get a life bro.

 

[Forvendet]

You can't accept democracy. If your proverbial Ah Beng is in majority I'll accept it, otherwise ship out. You apparently have no concept of what's democracy. You're just using democracy as a loudhailer to voice your will. Agree with you, then that's democracy? Disagree with you, then that's not democracy? No wonder people are voting PAP. They're more democratic than people like you. Intended or not, you people are the best campaigners for PAP.

 

[yellow_people]

You can't accept democracy. If your proverbial Ah Beng is in majority I'll accept it, otherwise ship out.

It actually sounds like you are having trouble dealing with democracy. Btw, Ah Beng is the majority.


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[Forvendet]

It actually sounds like you are having trouble dealing with democracy. Btw, Ah Beng is the majority.

No problem. Some of them are actually nice, some are nasty. I'll deal with life here. I don't call people Ah Beng or Ah Mat or Keling just because they're uneducated and behave crudely. I respect their rights as human beings and members of society. The majority wins. That's democracy. Come to terms with that. You can convince them to swing your way of opinion by talking nicely to them, you can't convince anybody by despising and insulting them. I'm from minority of minorities.

 

[yellow_people]

No problem. Some of them are actually nice, some are nasty. I'll deal with life here. I don't call people Ah Beng or Ah Mat or Keling just because they're uneducated and behave crudely. I respect their rights as human beings and members of society. The majority wins. That's democracy. Come to terms with that. You can convince them to swing your way of opinion by talking nicely to them, you can't convince anybody by despising and insulting them. I'm from minority of minorities.

Looks like you didn't get much of an education in the States. Majority wins in a democracy, that's true; but they do not get to impose their will on the minority. Anyway, this is something I do not expect you to understand. So let's leave this be.

What is interesting to note though is it is okay to bash SDP in this forum as you have done at every opportunity, but when WP gets roasted and rightfully so, for all their actions and comments - SDP haters like you have problems dealing with it.


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[IR123]

WP leaders have already admitted they are not ready to form the govt and their candidates need experience running town councils and debating in parliament. This is the 'high premium" Teo CH refers to. Yet Sylvia Lim sidesteps the issue and talks about 15-20% of the seats like she is bargaining in a street bazzar.

That sort of premium is not high. At least they are learning the ropes in looking after the residents as well as presenting the cases in Parliament. Granted that their presentation is lack luster in the past, focusing on the trees mostly. But comparing them to Chiam See Tong gives a certain perspective.

Will SDP be better?

Truly do not know the answer. But first SDP must capture the trust of the electorate. That they have not done. They have plenty of excuses for their failure but for the unsuccessful, failures and excuses come hand-in-hand. They remain unsuccessful, by virtue of their justifications.

If SDP really wants to present their views, then they must win the trust of their constituency. Without this trust factor they cannot win. One suggestion on the manifesto - leave the minimum wage issue aside. Best leave it for the UK former hedge fund manager who thinks highly of his brilliant economics training, ass though an undergraduate degree is equivalent to a dragon-mandate.

The SDP has chosen the path of alienation from the mainstream or perhaps the PAP help them to move along that path. But the SDP can always return and woo the mainstream voters.

Do you want the SDP to do that?

 

[IR123]

By the way, I am of the opinion that giving WP 20% of the seats represent paying a lower premium than giving the PAP 100% (less two) of the seats.

 

[Forvendet]

What is interesting to note though is it is okay to bash SDP in this forum as you have done at every opportunity, but when WP gets roasted and rightfully so, for all their actions and comments - SDP haters like you have problems dealing with it.


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I don't hate SDP, just like I don't hate PAP or any other party. I don't hate anybody. I decide my vote according to who convinces me, not hatred. The max I can say is dislike, distaste, distrust or balancing things.

 

[khunking]

There you go again, blaming everyone under the sun.

Yet Sylvia Lim sidesteps the issue and talks about 15-20% of the seats like she is bargaining in a street bazzar.

The WP also agree with the form and substance of the PAP govt as they have demonstrated time and time again.

So what really is the point in voting for WP now when they aren't ready in the first place?
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[yellow_people]

That sort of premium is not high. At least they are learning the ropes in looking after the residents as well as presenting the cases in Parliament. Granted that their presentation is lack luster in the past, focusing on the trees mostly. But comparing them to Chiam See Tong gives a certain perspective.

Learning how to manage TCs; a job that is almost done for a MP (with water, electricity, utilities, telecoms, TV, etc all there); the MP only need to worry about the general upkeep of the estate and improving his/her oratory skills?

A high premium for the little the voter gets in exchange.

Will SDP be better?

Truly do not know the answer. But first SDP must capture the trust of the electorate. That they have not done. They have plenty of excuses for their failure but for the unsuccessful, failures and excuses come hand-in-hand. They remain unsuccessful, by virtue of their justifications.

If SDP really wants to present their views, then they must win the trust of their constituency. Without this trust factor they cannot win. One suggestion on the manifesto - leave the minimum wage issue aside. Best leave it for the UK former hedge fund manager who thinks highly of his brilliant economics training, ass though an undergraduate degree is equivalent to a dragon-mandate.

The SDP has chosen the path of alienation from the mainstream or perhaps the PAP help them to move along that path. But the SDP can always return and woo the mainstream voters.

Do you want the SDP to do that?

As for alienation, you got it backwards. It is the mainstream media that is isolating SDP and potraying them in bad light. This propaganda is certainly having the fear factor effect (of SDP) in the eyes of the electorate. If CSJ, is this and CSJ is that as the PAP claims... why the fear of debating him on TV?

WP and SPP are acceptable opposition to the PAP, are of no threat except having the advantage of showcasing democracy. SL and LTK have already "dog-whistled" the PAP they are not ready to form the govt.

PAP on the other hand, views SDP as a threat. Why?


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[yellow_people]

There you go again, blaming everyone under the sun.

You have trouble understanding what's written. I'm critizing wannabe PAP party - WP.


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