Will ST promote TOC if Choo is a SDP member / supporter ?

[Avantas]

Hi E Jay,

We must not underestimate the PAP's attempts to manipulate cyberspace. Already the signs are showing, aren't they?

Though SDP may enjoy a bigger viewership than TOC, the latter may catch up pretty soon with this constant promotion by the state media.

Don't forget that SDP and TOC serves two different audiences. SDP is strongly partisan and anti-PAP - only staunch opposition supporters will be attracted by it.

TOC targets the centre - those who are neutral or have no political affliations yet. And this is the middle ground that SDP must win over in order to challenge the PAP.

The PAP is very smart. It knows that the anti-pappies will never support it and hence it is not going to spend any time to win them over. PAP is targetting the middle ground and hence their infiltration into TOC.

Let's say TOC is now an established news blog like Malaysiakini. A majority of the middle ground reads it and are swayed by its views. That means less will be persuaded by SDP.

Imagine if the PAP were to put one of its MP to write for TOC - its viewership will increased by 10-fold instantly !! How is SDP going to fight with TOC then ??

I feel it's time that bloggers get together to set up a real alternative to TOC's shameless PAP propaganda, like Malaysiakini who is run by independent journalists with NO political affliations. Perhaps you will like to spearhead this project ? I'd help you out in whatever ways I can including financial.

I agree, it is a small matter. I am used to insults and personal attacks. It is just that it should be PAP members who want to do me in, not fellow Opposition members or supporters.

As for promoting TOC, frankly, should we care?

Look at SDP's web site. No one is here promoting it. Yet today, SDP's web site has twice as many hits per day as TOC.

SDP has never tried to be everything to everybody. What SDP has done is to frame its agenda clearly, and then live by it as faithfully and as robustly as possible. That is why SDP was awarded the best political site hit-wise and today attracts the most traffic out of the major Singapore political websites.

SDP does not have a team of writers who need to consult each other and go through several rounds of approval before anything is posted. Yet their articles are well written, factually accurate to within reasonable limits, and to the point. SDP's site also makes ZERO apologies about the fact that they are opposed to PAP, 101% opposed to PAP.

That is all I have to say about this.

E-Jay

 

[NgEjay]

I feel it's time that bloggers get together to set up a real alternative to TOC's shameless PAP propaganda, like Malaysiakini who is run by independent journalists with NO political affliations. Perhaps you will like to spearhead this project ? I'd help you out in whatever ways I can including financial.

I agree on the need for an alternative news site run by people with no political affiliations. But I cannot be the one spearheading it as I intend to be partisan. Why don't you take the lead? If you can form a good team, I will definitely contribute in terms of research, writing.

E-Jay

 

[Avantas]

I can't as I am not a journalist and I am unable to commit full time.

Malaysiakini was set up by experienced journalists such as Steven Gan. Wonder if there are any journalists in Singapore who will be interested to work on this? I heard Ken Kwek had left ST. What about Cherian George?

Will there be any takers in the Blogger 13 group ? Keep out that attention-seeking media slut Choo pls !

Malaysiakini and Malaysia Today are one of the contributing factors to BN's defeat last GE. That's the power of the alternative media and the PAP knows it.

Did you watch the TOC video protraying Chiam See Tong as frail and disabled during the RP dinner ? I almost choke when I watch it ! Still doubtful about TOC's hidden agenda?

I agree on the need for an alternative news site run by people with no political affiliations. But I cannot be the one spearheading it as I intend to be partisan. Why don't you take the lead? If you can form a good team, I will definitely contribute in terms of research, writing.

E-Jay

 

[one2unite]

As for promoting TOC, frankly, should we care?

Look at SDP's web site. No one is here promoting it. Yet today, SDP's web site has twice as many hits per day as TOC.

SDP has never tried to be everything to everybody. What SDP has done is to frame its agenda clearly, and then live by it as faithfully and as robustly as possible. That is why SDP was awarded the best political site hit-wise and today attracts the most traffic out of the major Singapore political websites.

SDP does not have a team of writers who need to consult each other and go through several rounds of approval before anything is posted. Yet their articles are well written, factually accurate to within reasonable limits, and to the point. SDP's site also makes ZERO apologies about the fact that they are opposed to PAP, 101% opposed to PAP.

That is all I have to say about this.

E-Jay

Yeah, I make it a point to read the SDP website everyday. It's amazing that the site is updated daily with interesting, alternative articles. What a refreshing read compared to 154th PAP propaganda mouthpiece.

 

[Avantas]

Haha, I supposed you don't enjoy reading The Online CONS either - full of recycled hogwash from the 154th Times.

Yeah, I make it a point to read the SDP website everyday. It's amazing that the site is updated daily with interesting, alternative articles. What a refreshing read compared to 154th PAP propaganda mouthpiece.

 

[NgEjay]

I can't as I am not a journalist and I am unable to commit full time.

If you have good ideas on how to get started, do drop me an email at [email protected] and we can take the discussion private.

In today's society I expect to find hardly anyone who can commit full time to such an enterprise. What we need is a core group of dedicated folk, talented in a wide range of skills like videography, research, writing, photography, etc, to help kick start the process.

E-Jay

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Stop bickering, both of you! It's only a small matter.

Let's not fall into the trap set by the PAP mole here - the one who keeps defending and promoting TOC.

Dear Avantas,

If there are people who want to pick a fight with me, I will always welcome.

But please do it proper. Hiding behind clones, giving false information, malicious attacks, spreading lies and such are only actions of the rats that dare not see light.

However for Ejay, that falls short of just being a simple bickering. But I am merely helping him out here to justify what he is saying. Granted, I am no angel nor saint, but I have always tried to be reasonable, well, maybe I should only be reasonable to reasonable people. Unreasonable people will need special treatments.

Ejay is well known in twisting his head all around. He could accuse you of cowardice because you keep advising him on how to avoid in getting into trouble, but he would never say he was the one who seek that advice in the first place. He even called and arranged a meet up with me and Locke, yes, you would be very surprised to hear this, but its the truth and nothing but the truth. And in good faith, Locke has even agreed to bail him out if he ever needed one under his request. It may sound unbelievable to you and many other people here, but that's exactly what happen. And I am fully justified to call that wayang bravery for a start.

Actually, if he did not try to provoke me, I would have left him alone with his own hidden fear. That's ok, you know, everyone will have their own fear; some may fear rats or even lizards, nothing to brag about.

But yet, he turn around and say I "attack him personally"! Thus you see, it is a consistent behaviour on his part, maybe he didn't even realize that. He made a direct slanted comment on others and expect them to keep quiet and don't retort back. His comments will be "criticism" while others comments will be "personal atacked". LOL!

Anyway, I do not expect him to show any gratitude or anything of that sort. However, I will not just sit by and let him twist his heads all round the corners to make slanted remarks about me. And I will definitely not take it easy if people want to play mind games and create havoc all around, especially to my friends.

Everything I have said here is the truth and I don't give half truth.

There are many more things, hidden things that I know about him and his ilks that I will not reveal here basically because I am trying to be a very reasonable man. Its afterall, most of it its their own business, not mine to be mentioned. Well, sometimes it involves me in the picture but heck, I could not be bothered, unless being provoked.

But one thing for sure, I would NOT want to work with people like him ever in my life time. And I would say Locke has the opportunity to see very clearly before he makes the worst decision in his life.

And to be very clear about this, it got nothing to do with PAP agents or whatever; its basically just them. I will have to use a ruler to draw a STRAIGHT and CLEAR lines from now. No in between.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Ejay

And so the manufactured chorus for " The Alternative Citizen" begins. Don't u guys ever get sick talking to your own selves.




Locke

 

[Avantas]

Hi Meng Seng,

Just give and take, we are all adults. Quite disappointed that you accepted Andrew Loh's invitation to talk at the wayang TOC "protest". Why legitimacy to the PAP ? I thought you should be smarter enough to realize it.

By speaking there, you and Gomez unwittingly send the message of support to PM Lee's "liberalization" initiative. Did you realize that the ST has been actively playing up the fact that you spoke there?

Are you keen to join me in my venture to set up a Singaporekini - a real alternative to the PAP-controlled TOC?

Dear Avantas,

If there are people who want to pick a fight with me, I will always welcome.

But please do it proper. Hiding behind clones, giving false information, malicious attacks, spreading lies and such are only actions of the rats that dare not see light.

However for Ejay, that falls short of just being a simple bickering. But I am merely helping him out here to justify what he is saying. Granted, I am no angel nor saint, but I have always tried to be reasonable, well, maybe I should only be reasonable to reasonable people. Unreasonable people will need special treatments.

Ejay is well known in twisting his head all around. He could accuse you of cowardice because you keep advising him on how to avoid in getting into trouble, but he would never say he was the one who seek that advice in the first place. He even called and arranged a meet up with me and Locke, yes, you would be very surprised to hear this, but its the truth and nothing but the truth. And in good faith, Locke has even agreed to bail him out if he ever needed one under his request. It may sound unbelievable to you and many other people here, but that's exactly what happen. And I am fully justified to call that wayang bravery for a start.

Actually, if he did not try to provoke me, I would have left him alone with his own hidden fear. That's ok, you know, everyone will have their own fear; some may fear rats or even lizards, nothing to brag about.

But yet, he turn around and say I "attack him personally"! Thus you see, it is a consistent behaviour on his part, maybe he didn't even realize that. He made a direct slanted comment on others and expect them to keep quiet and don't retort back. His comments will be "criticism" while others comments will be "personal atacked". LOL!

Anyway, I do not expect him to show any gratitude or anything of that sort. However, I will not just sit by and let him twist his heads all round the corners to make slanted remarks about me. And I will definitely not take it easy if people want to play mind games and create havoc all around, especially to my friends.

Everything I have said here is the truth and I don't give half truth.

There are many more things, hidden things that I know about him and his ilks that I will not reveal here basically because I am trying to be a very reasonable man. Its afterall, most of it its their own business, not mine to be mentioned. Well, sometimes it involves me in the picture but heck, I could not be bothered, unless being provoked.

But one thing for sure, I would NOT want to work with people like him ever in my life time. And I would say Locke has the opportunity to see very clearly before he makes the worst decision in his life.

And to be very clear about this, it got nothing to do with PAP agents or whatever; its basically just them. I will have to use a ruler to draw a STRAIGHT and CLEAR lines from now. No in between.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Avantas]

E Jay is a respected blogger and human rights activist. We all know who he is.

As for you, your identity remains only a nick in cyberspace.

Dear Ejay

And so the manufactured chorus for " The Alternative Citizen" begins. Don't u guys ever get sick talking to your own selves.




Locke

 

[kakowi]

PAP ---> ways to influence voters

Others ---> must duplicate those ways

Then you will always be reactionary, one step behind. Into damage control rather than proactive influencing of the voters.
​

Others ---> constant bickering amongst themselves, high level of dislike for each other, personal attacks on each other

And yet expect the public to vote for you?
​

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Hi Meng Seng,

Just give and take, we are all adults. Quite disappointed that you accepted Andrew Loh's invitation to talk at the wayang TOC "protest". Why legitimacy to the PAP ? I thought you should be smarter enough to realize it.

By speaking there, you and Gomez unwittingly send the message of support to PM Lee's "liberalization" initiative. Did you realize that the ST has been actively playing up the fact that you spoke there?

Are you keen to join me in my venture to set up a Singaporekini - a real alternative to the PAP-controlled TOC?

Dear Avantas,

Basically, I don't just act on suspicion or unfounded rumors. Even if they are all PAP members, so what? In politics, its about fighting inch by inch. If they are able to attract the crowd, then I deliver the message to the crowd that they attracted, regardless of whether the organizers are PAP members or not.

What is important, is that the message must be sent and spread, via whatever platform. You may think they are making use of them, but look it another way, I am "making use" of them too.

I have said this some where in another forum and I will say it again. I do not agree with PAP's restriction on Democracy and I believe in having our rights and freedom of speech. If we are going to say, hey, we should not speak at Hong Lim Park because we would be showing "support" for PM Lee....whatever, then aren't we like PAP, setting restrictions on ourselves in freedom of expressions? If that is so, then there could only be TWO results:

1) Stay quiet until next GE
2) Get charged and go in out of jail by NAV

In my view, its not particularly about "principles". If anyone of us here could make use of this little dent by organizing events, like outdoor public forums, rallies and such at Hong Lim and succeed in drawing crowds to the hundreds or even thousands, then you would have beaten PAP in the game. PAP would have regretted to make that little steps back but it would possibly not able to back track now.

If we just sit here and do nothing, then PAP will say, see, I let you have freedom of protest, but it shows that I am right, Singaporeans are not interested in speaking up, least protest! Have you noticed that's what the local media is portraying ever since the rules are being relaxed?

Principles are good but if principles are made to restrain, restrict or even tied you up in total darkness with inactions, then we will have to rethink about it.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Hi Meng Seng,

Are you keen to join me in my venture to set up a Singaporekini - a real alternative to the PAP-controlled TOC?

Dear Avantas,

It would be an interesting idea to set up a Singaporekini. I will be interested in it if its just writing articles.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[kakowi]

Guys, if you are into doing it, please do not do it because someone else is doing it. That is the surest way to be a second-rate site.

Rather find an interesting angle, perspective that will appeal to the masses.

But at the end of the day, what do you hope to do with that site? Field a GRC team?

That will be a $200,000 x 5 years = $1,000,000 payback for your efforts.

A strong incentive for caring for others or at least for successfully pretending to care for others.

 

[Avantas]

Hi Meng Seng,

I will try to speak to some of the Malaysian bloggers and learn a trick or two from them.

Will also contact some of the mass comm guys like Aaron Ng.

Will keep you in the loop. You will definitely be a great asset to the team. We can even dedicate an editorial solely for you.

Dear Avantas,

It would be an interesting idea to set up a Singaporekini. I will be interested in it if its just writing articles.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Avantas]

Nobody else is doing it. If you are talking about TOC, it is a PAP ploy to have its voice in cyberspace. That's why there is an urgent need to set up a credible alternative to counter the PAP propaganda being spewed out daily by The Online CONS/COCK/CRAP.

Guys, if you are into doing it, please do not do it because someone else is doing it. That is the surest way to be a second-rate site.

Rather find an interesting angle, perspective that will appeal to the masses.

But at the end of the day, what do you hope to do with that site? Field a GRC team?

That will be a $200,000 x 5 years = $1,000,000 payback for your efforts.

A strong incentive for caring for others or at least for successfully pretending to care for others.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Ng E-Jay,

SDP's website is quite an enlightening and at times welcome alternative, however the extreme biased anti-PAP slant albeit understandable can sometimes leave a non partisan reader cold and disappointed at times. Especially apparent distortions of history most recently seen in Ghandi Ambalan's somewhat skewered take of the Mariah Hertogh Affair.

Also SDP's constant posting of a whole range of other news feeder articles that at times make little sense with respect to its connection to SDP's causes also at times leaves a non partisan reader confused and puzzled. For eg. the one on the AIG/AIA bank run, what is the relevance?

Finally with regard to your goodself, with due respect, I think at times you tend to try too hard without being able to sustain much credibility. No doubt your heart appears to be in the right place and your passion is commendable but you got to learn to walk first before running right? For eg. you, Chia Ti Lik and Palay(amongst others I think) started SG Human Rights thinggy with fanfare and publicity only to quickly die a quick death. Compare this to say Maruah for instance and I think you may understand where I am coming from. Be that as it may, I think your strength may lie in statistical analysis under the political landscape, for eg. your insightful and enlightening analysis of the CPF Annuity issues and the various options.

Cheers

SDP has never tried to be everything to everybody. What SDP has done is to frame its agenda clearly, and then live by it as faithfully and as robustly as possible. That is why SDP was awarded the best political site hit-wise and today attracts the most traffic out of the major Singapore political websites.

SDP does not have a team of writers who need to consult each other and go through several rounds of approval before anything is posted. Yet their articles are well written, factually accurate to within reasonable limits, and to the point. SDP's site also makes ZERO apologies about the fact that they are opposed to PAP, 101% opposed to PAP.


E-Jay

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Avantas,

You may have a point on the "middle ground" issue, however do not patronise the "middle ground". I don't think rational mature objectivety is beyond this group.

Oh and as for proposing Ng E-Jay, well then how would your alternative to TOC be considered non partisan when it appears on the face of it at the very least that he is a Dr Chee/SDP sympathiser?

Cheers

TOC targets the centre - those who are neutral or have no political affliations yet. And this is the middle ground that SDP must win over in order to challenge the PAP.

The PAP is very smart. It knows that the anti-pappies will never support it and hence it is not going to spend any time to win them over. PAP is targetting the middle ground and hence their infiltration into TOC.

Let's say TOC is now an established news blog like Malaysiakini. A majority of the middle ground reads it and are swayed by its views. That means less will be persuaded by SDP.

Imagine if the PAP were to put one of its MP to write for TOC - its viewership will increased by 10-fold instantly !! How is SDP going to fight with TOC then ??

I feel it's time that bloggers get together to set up a real alternative to TOC's shameless PAP propaganda, like Malaysiakini who is run by independent journalists with NO political affliations. Perhaps you will like to spearhead this project ? I'd help you out in whatever ways I can including financial.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Avantas,

Now you may be onto people of credibility. Alex Au appears to be another possibility notwithstanding his anti 377A status. Also say Catherine Lim, Kevin Tan, Viswa Sadasivan, 'Elia Diodati' etc:p But I seriously can't see these types coming together to engage in such a vehicle/animal at this present time. Then again who knows eh?

As for "alternative media", I wonder whether what James Gomez has recently opined can withstand scrutiny? I for one am undecided.

"The evidence shows that the political structure, and in particular, the electoral system, rather than the availability of alternative online political content, accounts for the electoral outcomes in Singapore.

The current electoral system in Singapore is impervious to the impact of the internet. Hence, the freedom and ability to distribute alternative political content as a manifestation of voter sentiment will not lead to a change in electoral results. The study points to a need for electoral system reform to more accurately translate voter sentiment into parliamentary seats."

Wonder if there are any journalists in Singapore who will be interested to work on this? I heard Ken Kwek had left ST. What about Cherian George?
Will there be any takers in the Blogger 13 group ? Keep out that attention-seeking media slut Choo pls !

Malaysiakini and Malaysia Today are one of the contributing factors to BN's defeat last GE. That's the power of the alternative media and the PAP knows it.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Probably huge big inflated egos coupled by childish immaturity

[/INDENT]Others ---> constant bickering amongst themselves, high level of dislike for each other, personal attacks on each other

And yet expect the public to vote for you?
​