Why RSAF buy expensive Gulfstream private jet for early warning radar?

[Papsmearer]

Going by your logic, it C130 that need replacement first because the oldest one we are operating was built in 1958.

We just need to buy what we need and not what the best. We don't need to overkill and overspend.

Don't bother with Groober, he is probably some kid in a sec. school somewhere. If you are waiting for logic from him, "his reasoning is like 2 grains of wheat hid in 2 bushels of chaff, you shall seek all day and 'ere you find them, they are not worth the search".

 

[groober2011]

Once again, you are providing false information. The French E-2s were extensively upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard. This was done for under $100 million each. The French expect to use them another 20 years. We should have done this rather than pay $375 million each for planes we don't need. Even the PRC military do not have any AEW the standard of the Hawkeye 2000.

And stop cutting and pasting, like u are doing in your last para. We all know what AWACS are used for. If you don't know, than quietly read to yourself. I can speak for the rest of the posters on this thread, we are still waiting for a meaningful and well thought out post from you.

I was responding to the link given not to any other links and did a search but could not find a follow0up report fromthat report. Perhaps you can provide it.

As for the cut and paste, if someone is asking and it has been nicely written, why rack my brains to write another which may not be as good? Do I have the time to write an essay since it is already there?

 

[groober2011]

Don't bother with Groober, he is probably some kid in a sec. school somewhere. If you are waiting for logic from him, "his reasoning is like 2 grains of wheat hid in 2 bushels of chaff, you shall seek all day and 'ere you find them, they are not worth the search".

And this from you shows your level of maturity?

 

[groober2011]

Going by your logic, it C130 that need replacement first because the oldest one we are operating was built in 1958.

We just need to buy what we need and not what the best. We don't need to overkill and overspend.

I believe that all the C-130's have either gone for an upgrade or in the process since 2010. The fact is that the C-130's are not similar nor are they subject to the same operating cycle.

The difference are that the C-130 have very low flying hours compared to the E-2C's. The life of an aircraft is not so much their age rather than their flight hours and landing cycles. A landing cycle is one take-off and one landing. If the C-130's take-off and land every day that is one cycle, which is not the case.

 

[red amoeba]

my 2 cents worth. AWAC is a different ball game from transport plane.
C130 is still used by many countries around the world.

Where AWAC need upgrading to catch up with times - esp to correspond to US / China activities around the region.

Gulfstream is easier for getaway vehicle either for us or guests in times emergency?

 

[blueblobster]

The difference are that the C-130 have very low flying hours compared to the E-2C's. The life of an aircraft is not so much their age rather than their flight hours and landing cycles. A landing cycle is one take-off and one landing. If the C-130's take-off and land every day that is one cycle, which is not the case.

This is perhaps one of the few times you made sense in this thread. Unfortunately it also exposes you as a government/ RSAF apologist who will twist facts off the fly to justify this purchase.

You have always used the age of aircraft to justify the purchase. A4, 10 year old = new, Hawkeye 25 year old = old, etc. But when cornered, you finally have to switch to the flight hour/ cycle argument and abandon your usual age argument.

Anyone exercising logic and critical thinking can see where you are going. E.g. your poor attempt to explain the rust as discoloration when you were not even involved in the process.

Everyone here is free to express their own opinions, however biased. But please base them on FACTS and not apologetics influenced opinions.

 

[groober2011]

This is perhaps one of the few times you made sense in this thread. Unfortunately it also exposes you as a government/ RSAF apologist who will twist facts off the fly to justify this purchase.

You have always used the age of aircraft to justify the purchase. A4, 10 year old = new, Hawkeye 25 year old = old, etc. But when cornered, you finally have to switch to the flight hour/ cycle argument and abandon your usual age argument.

Anyone exercising logic and critical thinking can see where you are going. E.g. your poor attempt to explain the rust as discoloration when you were not even involved in the process.

Everyone here is free to express their own opinions, however biased. But please base them on FACTS and not apologetics influenced opinions.

I am just a forumer who has a little general knowledge and expressing my thoughts whether right or wrong. I never did claim expertise in the subject and this is a general discussion on the purchase made by our airforce. I don't think you should screw anyone up for saying what is in their heads and say I am bias or otherwise.

What is there for me or anyone to gain from winning an argument? I could not care less what the air force buys and joining a discussion to talk about it makes me what, a govt/RSAFapologist? Is that not laughable? Should there be a discussion where everyone agrees? Then what is the point of having a thread for everyone to screw the govt and RSAF for a decision that neither you or I can reverse?

The mentality of some of you guys is that you want everyone to share same opinions. I don't have a vagina although I know a little about it. Does that mean I should have one in order to talk about it?

Ok if it is not discolouration and it is rust, as an engineer I know some laymen who looks at materials and regard them as rust. Tell me where do you find lots of iron materials in an aircraft, especially one made for the marine environment? Therefore my conclusion is not that far off. Like I said I don't know everything, but that does not mean I cannot put in my 2 cents worth. Similarly I don't screw you for interjecting into this discussion although maybe this could be your first comment? Have you offered any other opinion in this thread?

 

[3_M]

Don't bother with Groober, he is probably some kid in a sec. school somewhere. If you are waiting for logic from him, "his reasoning is like 2 grains of wheat hid in 2 bushels of chaff, you shall seek all day and 'ere you find them, they are not worth the search".

Some military fanboy I guess. Most of these people have yet to gone through NS or started work. They will be cheering if RSAF decided to buy 100 F35 without realizing the burden on taxpayers.

 

[Debonerman]

Guys, if you had punctuated the end of your posts with LOLs of false joviality like our Alamaking bitch, it won't descend into a flame war. You want to start a fight, throw down a siggy!......LOL......alamak........LOL

 

[Jlokta]

Lucky you not form ADA if not shoot wrong plane this is the Strikemaster la.

I also say.:p

They're not called SALA for no reason mah.

 

[blueblobster]

The mentality of some of you guys is that you want everyone to share same opinions. I don't have a vagina although I know a little about it. Does that mean I should have one in order to talk about it?

Seems like the point is lost on you.

You do not need to have a vagina but you sure need some knowledge about it before you pass off comments about vagina upgrades costs, vagina age, vagina spare parts or vagina operation problems as facts.

Ok if it is not discolouration and it is rust, as an engineer I know some laymen who looks at materials and regard them as rust. Tell me where do you find lots of iron materials in an aircraft, especially one made for the marine environment? Therefore my conclusion is not that far off.

This is a perfect example of how you constantly change your views to suit you. Read Papsmearer’s post carefully. His friend was part of the team that bought the Skyhawk. He is NO layman. You are grasping at straws now.

Like I said I don't know everything, but that does not mean I cannot put in my 2 cents worth. Similarly I don't screw you for interjecting into this discussion although maybe this could be your first comment? Have you offered any other opinion in this thread?

First off, I am not screwing you.

You are using a classic diversion tactic. Whether I post or not in this thread has NO relevance on what I said about your posts. Like you, I’m an ordinary guy with some interest in military matters. I do not pass my opinions as facts and talk about things I do not know like the cost of upgrading the E2C, operational problems when upgrading, choosing the G550 due to the availability of spare parts, etc. And of all the things you pick on, you choose to pick on what Papsmearer said about short wings when anyone who could read knows what he was driving at.

What I said about you can however be easily checked and confirmed by going through this entire thread. It is not an accusation just because I do not agree with you. You are not the only one supporting the purchase.

Also, I don’t give a shit what the RSAF buys. If they did not buy this, they will always find a way to blow the cash elsewhere. It won’t be passed on to the peasants regardless. My issue is with your arguments and how you twist and turn.

Lastly a minor point… I notice that you have totally avoided the issue about your contradictions regarding age vs flight/ landing cycle.

 

[groober2011]

Lastly a minor point… I notice that you have totally avoided the issue about your contradictions regarding age vs flight/ landing cycle.

There is no contradictions. I did not belabour the point about landing cycles and flight hours as not many people here are aware of it. I just mentioned about age of the E-2C's which is related to the purchase of the G550. The ages of the A4's and the C-130 came in later and then it became somewhat confusing as these aircraft have totally different roles and type of operation. Of course then I have to explain in a better way that landing cycles and flight hours are part and parcel of differentiating the age of aircraft. Metal fatigue (sorry now another spanner thrown in)from stress is one of the main causes due to pressurisation and depressurisation of the fuselage, thus affecting the life of the aircraft.

You contend then that since Papsmearer has a friend who was in the team that took delivery of the A4's his opinions are more valued and to be believed. Perhaps one of you can link me to one of the many reports about rusty A-4 Skyhawks as I could not find any.

 

[groober2011]

Lucky you not form ADA if not shoot wrong plane this is the Strikemaster la.

Are you from ADA Joe?

 

[groober2011]

Anyone exercising logic and critical thinking can see where you are going. E.g. your poor attempt to explain the rust as discoloration when you were not even involved in the process.

I thought if Papsmearer was to be believed that the A-4's was in such bad conditions with rusty parts, yet they are still able to fly until today. I was led to believe that the A-4's were not properly preserved and the desert conditions was not as great as we think it is.

 

[Debonerman]

One more spanner thrown in!...."structural fatigue life"....LOL...alamak....LOL...replacement of struts and spars...LOL

 

[groober2011]

Some military fanboy I guess. Most of these people have yet to gone through NS or started work. They will be cheering if RSAF decided to buy 100 F35 without realizing the burden on taxpayers.

Not to say your comment about naval aircraft and the stress it receives on landing says much about your personal knowledge despite being a fan.

 

[steffychun]

Again, I challenge the view that the E-2Cs cannot be easily upgraded. America is doing it.

And again, Russian SAMs are easily mixed with any ADA system.

 

[Froggy]

I also say.:p

They're not called SALA for no reason mah.

Wahahahaha . . . . . . . hey I'm surprised this thread still going strong guess SBF has many defense experts here.

 

[Papsmearer]

Wahahahaha . . . . . . . hey I'm surprised this thread still going strong guess SBF has many defense experts here.

No, SBF has only a few defence experts, and one idiot who keeps prolonging the thread with stupid arguments.

 

[groober2011]

Wahahahaha . . . . . . . hey I'm surprised this thread still going strong guess SBF has many defense experts here.

These are the so-called "defence experts" here calling for a cheaper alternative to the purchase of the G550 CEAW.

1. Equating the life-span of a fighter with an E-2C, but not aware that the E-2C flies everyday which effectively maximise their flight hours within a short period. The E-2C fuselage life limits is 15,350 Flt Hrs and the other areas less than that. Which means the aircraft totals approximately 2000 Flt. Hrs annually, and multiply that with 25 years in service, a rough estimate will be about they have covered 50,000 Flt Hrs.

2. Obviously, the E-2C's had already undergone several major overhaul and parts replacement.

3. Shhhh, I have to tell you that these SBF "defence experts" do not know that the RSAF E-2C's were already upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 a few years ago. They are still wanting the RSAF to upgrade the aircraft despite they are already upgraded claiming it as a cheaper option.

But what do I know as I am just a forumer and never claim to be one?