Why RSAF buy expensive Gulfstream private jet for early warning radar?

[ZorrorroZ]

Hunter, the hand me down from our former colonial masters.

You can still see them at airforce school and the air force museum.

That picture is not a Hunter. It is a BAC 167 Strikemaster.

This is a Hawker Hunter:

 

[wikiphile]

Humint is human intellegience, spies. Redlands Jlokta explained.

Thanks for the explanation Captain Obvious. Colour code is wrong, any opfor is always redland and we are always blueland. Which agency from SAF control these 'HUMINT' assets pray tell? SID does not count, they fall under the umbrella of MINDEF.

 

[Jlokta]

That picture is not a Hunter. It is a BAC 167 Strikemaster.
This is a Hawker Hunter:

ah!! my bad.

thanks for the correction..

 

[Debonerman]

I don't know know whether they will retire the E-2C's permanently or send them for refurbishment once the transition has been completed. Since you know so much perhaps you can tell us. As I have already pointed out, we have only 4 of them and to take one out for refurbishment for an extended period will cause a lot of operational problems.

Tell the RSAF about it when one bozo tried to land it in front of gathered VIPs without its landing gear fully extended. Imagine the load the other three birds need to shoulder after that. But then who is going to attack us?

 

[sleaguepunter]

how many hawkeye do RSAF have? 4 gulfstream enough for the defense? if RSAF in constant standby, then i find just 4 gulfstream not enough for the job. yes, the plane can cruise for Xhrs but the human operators can only stared at the radar panels (or whatever u call them) for at most 6hrs before they start to lose concentration. so rsaf will need to keep one in the air, one on standby, one just landed and one in maintenance (not sure of turnover time), that will mean all four planes will be working non stop and have no reserve. no spares in the event one or more of them rosak for whatever reason.

Do the G550 have look down capablities, ie, look for ships? maybe the G550 not really meant for local defense but an american asset station here to spy on the south china sea.

 

[Debonerman]

Singapore navy bought 6 S-70Bs for deployment on 6 frigates. No standby for attrition rate also? Americans promised to replace one for one .....on an instant basis....under the Lemon Law?....LOL.....alamak.....LOL

 

[groober2011]

Tell the RSAF about it when one bozo tried to land it in front of gathered VIPs without its landing gear fully extended. Imagine the load the other three birds need to shoulder after that. But then who is going to attack us?

That was one big multi-million dollars boo-boo. The down-time was not that long however if I recall correctly as the company I think it was WCI that came over to do the job.

As to who wants to attack us, a big question mark, but it has cost us billions and many lives since the 60's.

 

[3_M]

Thanks for the info but this is not the kind of upgrade we are discussing as it involves on a few items, not the latest equipment on the E-2D or the G550.

It has been past 6 months but there has been no further news about it.

Issue here is it not necessary at this point when we are the only AWACS operator in the region. even the most basic E-2C will still put us few notches above our neighbors. Do we need a G550 to peep into the sky of Thai or pinoy? How does it add value?

Even if our neighbors were to acquire AWACS one day, we will still have the edge because of the many years of experience in AWACS warfare. By then it not too late to talk about replacement and we will be getting something even better than the G550.

 

[Debonerman]

 

[groober2011]

Issue here is it not necessary at this point when we are the only AWACS operator in the region. even the most basic E-2C will still put us few notches above our neighbors. Do we need a G550 to peep into the sky of Thai or pinoy? How does it add value?

Even if our neighbors were to acquire AWACS one day, we will still have the edge because of the many years of experience in AWACS warfare. By then it not too late to talk about replacement and we will be getting something even better than the G550.

Your info about the upgrade was a minor upgrade of the E-2C to be sold by the US to France. Our own existing E-2C's if upgraded may probably be the one Papsmearer was suggesting.

Since you contend that we are the only operator in this region, we need not even upgrade for that matter as we have been operating them for 25 years.

AWACS are use both for defensive and offensive roles. An airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system (or more commonly and historically an AWACS) is an airborne radar system designed to detect aircraft at long ranges and control and command the battle space in an air engagement by directing fighter and attack plane strikes. AEW&C/AWACS units are also used to carry out surveillance, including over ground targets and frequently perform C2BM (command and control, battle management) functions similar to an Airport Traffic Controller given military command over other forces. Used at a high altitude, the radars on the aircraft allow the operators to distinguish between friendly and hostile aircraft hundreds of miles away.

 

[Papsmearer]

Of course I was referring to the civilian executive jets. If you bother to analyse my post, there are enough existing G550 which makes it attractive to buy the G550 CAEW as spare parts are available. Need I have to add that the "spare parts" I am referring to are the common aircraft parts and not the parts meant for the G550 CEW. Need to stress it otherwise I might get misunderstood.

There is enough existing spare parts for the E-2 now. In fact, the production line for the E-2 is still open. What's that got to do with anything? I guarantee u the RSAF did not make the decision to buy the G550 because "spare parts are available". That's absurd.

 

[Debonerman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Electronically_Scanned_Array

 

[Papsmearer]

Hmmm an A-4B less than 10 years old are considered now new? Well perhaps it is not so new but for aircraft, I would say they are relatively new.

I would say that when faced with superior knowledge, u should shut up and not embarass yourself more. The first production A-4B stared rolling out of the production lines in 1953. We bought them starting in 1973, by which time this particular model has already been in service for 20 yeats, not 10. Now, I will tell you why they are not "relatively new". The A-4s were heavily used in the Vietnam War by the US NAvy. High tempo combat ops = high airframe hours, high engine hours etc. Plus exposed to marine environment onboard USN Carriers. Because we bought so many, Some, perhaps even had combat damage that was repaired. I am not aware of this, but I will tell you if I am not aware and not make statements I don't know anything about.

Rust could be due to discolouration and perhaps may not be rust at all. Let's say they are rusted, but we know that planes are kept in Mohave Desert for a certain reason, i.e., to maintain it's condition and not let them deteriorate. The purchase at that time was a good deal and I believe we made a good choice. The bad ones were cannibalized and the good parts were taken and the rest thrown away.

Now why would your friend chose the bad ones that were in bad shape? That they had to dismantle the planes into smaller parts and shipped them back to Singapore in crates is common sense, no? Why should they shipped them whole which will make it more difficult to transport?

Because, unlike your claim of "relatively new", believe it or not, these were the best ones he could find. The team rejected many frames and pick the best conditioned ones, which sad to say, was not in fantastic shape. The technology for plane preservation 40 years ago is very different from today. I personally have been to AMARC myself, I can tell you that place is hot and dusty. There are many older planes out there that are in bad shape. Even at AMARC, there are different levels of preservation. For planes that will be cannibalised for spares, there is one level. For planes that have a good chance of being sold under FMS, they will spend more money to preserve it. What I am saying is I do not know the priority the A-4s received in preservation, and given the technology back than, it does not surprise me. That is why I mentioned in the post, LASS did a bang up job.

By the way, they were not shipped in crates.

 

[Froggy]

Hunter, the hand me down from our former colonial masters.

You can still see them at airforce school and the air force museum.

Lucky you not form ADA if not shoot wrong plane this is the Strikemaster la.

 

[3_M]

Your info about the upgrade was a minor upgrade of the E-2C to be sold by the US to France. Our own existing E-2C's if upgraded may probably be the one Papsmearer was suggesting.

Since you contend that we are the only operator in this region, we need not even upgrade for that matter as we have been operating them for 25 years.

AWACS are use both for defensive and offensive roles. An airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system (or more commonly and historically an AWACS) is an airborne radar system designed to detect aircraft at long ranges and control and command the battle space in an air engagement by directing fighter and attack plane strikes. AEW&C/AWACS units are also used to carry out surveillance, including over ground targets and frequently perform C2BM (command and control, battle management) functions similar to an Airport Traffic Controller given military command over other forces. Used at a high altitude, the radars on the aircraft allow the operators to distinguish between friendly and hostile aircraft hundreds of miles away.

Going by your logic, it C130 that need replacement first because the oldest one we are operating was built in 1958.

We just need to buy what we need and not what the best. We don't need to overkill and overspend.

 

[steffychun]

Going by your logic, it C130 that need replacement first because the oldest one we are operating was built in 1958.

We just need to buy what we need and not what the best. We don't need to overkill and overspend.

Therefore, we should buy more Russian SAMs as they are cheaper and proven

 

[3_M]

Therefore, we should buy more Russian SAMs as they are cheaper and proven

S400 and s300 are the best but don't know if they are cheap. Then there is the problem of integration with existing network.

 

[steffychun]

S400 and s300 are the best but don't know if they are cheap. Then there is the problem of integration with existing network.

the ILGAs are easily integrated. Why not other equipment?

 

[Papsmearer]

Your info about the upgrade was a minor upgrade of the E-2C to be sold by the US to France. Our own existing E-2C's if upgraded may probably be the one Papsmearer was suggesting.

Since you contend that we are the only operator in this region, we need not even upgrade for that matter as we have been operating them for 25 years.

AWACS are use both for defensive and offensive roles. An airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system (or more commonly and historically an AWACS) is an airborne radar system designed to detect aircraft at long ranges and control and command the battle space in an air engagement by directing fighter and attack plane strikes. AEW&C/AWACS units are also used to carry out surveillance, including over ground targets and frequently perform C2BM (command and control, battle management) functions similar to an Airport Traffic Controller given military command over other forces. Used at a high altitude, the radars on the aircraft allow the operators to distinguish between friendly and hostile aircraft hundreds of miles away.

Once again, you are providing false information. The French E-2s were extensively upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard. This was done for under $100 million each. The French expect to use them another 20 years. We should have done this rather than pay $375 million each for planes we don't need. Even the PRC military do not have any AEW the standard of the Hawkeye 2000.

And stop cutting and pasting, like u are doing in your last para. We all know what AWACS are used for. If you don't know, than quietly read to yourself. I can speak for the rest of the posters on this thread, we are still waiting for a meaningful and well thought out post from you.

 

[groober2011]

Because, unlike your claim of "relatively new", believe it or not, these were the best ones he could find.

By the way, they were not shipped in crates.

First A-4 in service in 1953 and all variations retired in 1967. Your claim that they are 20 years in service is incorrect. I said 10 years old aircraft which is more or less the average age.

Shipped in crates or containers, well whatever as it is not important or is it?