Why does Dr Chee/SDP appear to take delight in the Sands IR financial problems?

[one2unite]

No need for so many. Just one politician is required.

How to be a "politician" in a dictatorship headed by an octogenarian who doesn't believe in politics but relies on corruption, nepotism and cronyism?

 

[scroobal]

I have yet to see any form of economic suggestion made by SDP as workable or even a solution to any of our present problems.

Its has the case from the very start when Chee took over SDP. Confrontation was the end. Issues were abstract or motherhood in nature. The audience was foreigners, and the target was the PAP.

If it had been the usual political party, the issues would those that rub singaporeans the wrong way, audience would have been singaporeans and votes the eventual goal.

Look at Naomi Klein and the NGOs. It does not matter if Pinoys can earn 10 times more per hour working in an MNC factory in their own country. As long as the wages are less than American workers by half, it becomes exploitation and the factory a sweatshop.

Notice in Chee's outfit there is a clear gulf between him and the rest except maybe for the sister. I am not talking about charisma, Its a model that you don't see anywhere. Some of the supporter will call you a coward for not following their cause. Ever seen any political party do that to any potential support base.

It nothing do with getting getting qualified people. Its is not a political party in the first place.

 

[The_Latest_H]

Its has the case from the very start when Chee took over SDP. Confrontation was the end. Issues were abstract or motherhood in nature. The audience was foreigners, and the target was the PAP.

If it had been the usual political party, the issues would those that rub singaporeans the wrong way, audience would have been singaporeans and votes the eventual goal.

Look at Naomi Klein and the NGOs. It does not matter if Pinoys can earn 10 times more per hour working in an MNC factory in their own country. As long as the wages are less than American workers by half, it becomes exploitation and the factory a sweatshop.

Notice in Chee's outfit there is a clear gulf between him and the rest except maybe for the sister. I am not talking about charisma, Its a model that you don't see anywhere. Some of the supporter will call you a coward for not following their cause. Ever seen any political party do that to any potential support base.

It nothing do with getting getting qualified people. Its is not a political party in the first place.

Well, with all due respect to the Chees, I think democracy is useless without policies and without discussing the issues. Democracy alone won't make people earn enough to put food on the table. Democracy alone won't help people stay employed. Democracy alone won't help increase the inflow of tourists from other countries. Democracy alone won't help shore up our financial systems.

Even other politicians from other countries, and in this year, like in Taiwan, the US, and in Australia in late 2007, progressive politicians ran on policies and on the discussions of the issues. Democracy is the facilitator that helps the policies and government be implemented and be ran - and so issues play a major role, as with policies. The character of the politicians and their parties also played a major role.

Democracy help government function better as a whole. But the introduction of democracy in a previously autocratic system is only just the beginning; there will always be a long road ahead for a new democratic system- and for the new leaders and the policies they want to pass to make the country progress.

 

[leetahbar]

when things are good in singapore, the chee clan would look bad. conversely, when things are getting bad - or better, WORST!- chee can always use that to bazooka the gabramen with all the usual insinuations and craps.

so just think. is chee really what he said he was - doing "good" for singapore?

these are some of the unwarranted elements which would add into a turmoil but clueless about alternative solution.

this lame mentality is duplicated in the foreign "human rights" groups. they aren't bothered about citizens's peace and security. they just want chaos for the gov in their obsessive "human rights". their way of forcing HR into peaceful society is their kind of HUMAN RIGHTS!!

now take a good hard look at their own cuntries. is it in any way better off than us? human shits maybe. human rights? CRAPS TO THEM!!:oIo:

 

[guavatree]

this lame mentality is duplicated !now take a good hard look at their own cuntries. is it in any way better off than us? human shits maybe. human rights? CRAPS TO THEM!!

pondan PAP dog you take a HARD look!

you steal temple donation money and the chief monk told you to fuck off!

you bashed your 70+ y.o.father until bloody when he threw away your gay porn materials!

you called your mother LAUCHEEBYE when she reprimanded you for doing fuck all at home except prostituting yourself in cyberspace round-the-clock!

you also stole handphones and claimed that handphones waved at you!

you steal other's forum password!

you tried to con a forummer's property

you tried to con the same person to include your name in his will when he discovered that you tried to con his property!

you tried to con laukwayboos but you end up only got some free makan!

you eat 4 to 5 persons amount when you go makan with frenz

you did not pay for makan and even said that the makan is fuckup!

you're a most despicable moron most vile and cunning monster!

 

[Wisely]

Its has the case from the very start when Chee took over SDP. Confrontation was the end. Issues were abstract or motherhood in nature. The audience was foreigners, and the target was the PAP.

If it had been the usual political party, the issues would those that rub singaporeans the wrong way, audience would have been singaporeans and votes the eventual goal.

Look at Naomi Klein and the NGOs. It does not matter if Pinoys can earn 10 times more per hour working in an MNC factory in their own country. As long as the wages are less than American workers by half, it becomes exploitation and the factory a sweatshop.

Notice in Chee's outfit there is a clear gulf between him and the rest except maybe for the sister. I am not talking about charisma, Its a model that you don't see anywhere. Some of the supporter will call you a coward for not following their cause. Ever seen any political party do that to any potential support base.

It nothing do with getting getting qualified people. Its is not a political party in the first place.

What do you mean by "Gulf"? In terms of intellect, direction or....?

 

[scroobal]

What do you mean by "Gulf"? In terms of intellect, direction or....?

In terms of having the same notion or purpose. In any political party, the general aim tend to be same with all members and supporters. WP, SDD NSP, etc. Its just that the leader tends to be dominant, more capable and the rest are usually far behind etc.

Even student unions in poly, uni and association bodies like Singapore Medical Association, Law society, clqan associations you will see the mechanics and language of politics but the issues will be more specific towards their cause.

Chee appears to be in a different zone and his followers look like decent people but they are certainly not in the same zone. They are definately not in the zone that is associated with politics.

Read the articles about their supporters and their comments. The husband and wife, the soldier, Seelan etc. Every thing seems simplistic. Something is good or bad. The notion of politics, alternate government and politics of today are not present. The exceptions are the old guards in SDP like Ling but notice they do not take part in his protests thought they are members.

What I do notice however all their articles are very well written and and follows conventional journalism, probably because of Ghandi. Even Chee's books and his action do not reconcile.

It appears more like a cult. Though not an accurate term but thats the closest that I can think of.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

1. Perhaps, but politics always appears to raise its ugly head in various forms and guises, when public funds and public funding is involved. What I think is more important is to see that people do not fall through the cracks and that there is a reasonable balance between helping and not detracting from the self reliance spirit, although erring on the side of compassion and care save for abuse with a reasonably fair equitable inclusive permanent safety net.

2. Of course "vouchers" are a short term fix, and not the only option. As for your other point, care to elaborate?

3. Please lah, we are talking about the country's entire economy, not just a single company or even a single sector. Anyways, the next GE shall probably be a good time to 'stock take'.

1. The schemes in order to work well, must be depoliticised completely. Otherwise, it'd be ineffective, even if they are good ones.

2. Vouchers won't work long term until the government realises that all good jobs, especially professional ones with higher wages, and with high requirements for the education criteria and without glass ceiling are the best ways to get people involved in the broader economy and in the business sector.

3. You say 2 years is too short. Well, for your info, 5 years is way too long in the business world. 5 years in the tech sector is like a hundred years. Why should Singapore do any different, especially when we are heavily linked with business, and our economy is basically about capitalism? We don't run on our own schedule when it comes to business; we run to the world's schedule, and that's how HK, New York, London, Tokyo and Frankfurt operates.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I don't think you are being totally fair to Dr Chee and SDP. If you have followed his writings both published and online closely you may have seen his/its critique and alternative suggestions albeit in a broadbased sketchy form.

In fact Dr Chee raised the same issues that PAP raised last year viz CPF Annuity way back in the 1990s!! Dr Chee's critique with I believe the help of Prof. Asher on the flawed CPF system back in the 1990s has now to a large extent proven to be true.

However the main problem with Dr Chee and SDP appears to be its fixation on western liberal democractic principles overriding everything else. A secondary problem and this links to economic issues, appears to be Dr Chee/SDP idealistic socialism. In this regard, I think he needs certainly needs a sound economic adviser, perhaps a local Paul Krugman.

I
I have yet to see any form of economic suggestion made by SDP as workable or even a solution to any of our present problems. where was SDP when govt raise GST? where were they when govt anyhow change the contribution rates for CPF? where was SDP when govt goive temasek free hand in moving our money in anyway they want?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Chicken and egg situation for Dr Chee and SDP. Present local electoral system heavily stacked against Oppos, so they opt out of playing the 'game' and play their 'own game'. Very long difficult 'game' to play sustained by hope. Not my cup of tea.

Its has the case from the very start when Chee took over SDP. Confrontation was the end. Issues were abstract or motherhood in nature. The audience was foreigners, and the target was the PAP.

If it had been the usual political party, the issues would those that rub singaporeans the wrong way, audience would have been singaporeans and votes the eventual goal.


Notice in Chee's outfit there is a clear gulf between him and the rest except maybe for the sister. I am not talking about charisma, Its a model that you don't see anywhere. Some of the supporter will call you a coward for not following their cause. Ever seen any political party do that to any potential support base.

It nothing do with getting getting qualified people. Its is not a political party in the first place.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Interesting you raise this issue. I recall John Tan in Belinda's court saying something to effect that Dr Chee is well respected, has standing and taken seriously by the big western human rights NGOs and he developed all such relationships from scratch, in effect Dr Chee is THE MAN. Get the same sort of impression from people like One2Unite in this forum.

Btw I thought Ling quit SDP, also Wong?

Chee appears to be in a different zone and his followers look like decent people but they are certainly not in the same zone. They are definately not in the zone that is associated with politics.

Read the articles about their supporters and their comments. The husband and wife, the soldier, Seelan etc. Every thing seems simplistic. Something is good or bad. The notion of politics, alternate government and politics of today are not present. The exceptions are the old guards in SDP like Ling but notice they do not take part in his protests thought they are members.

What I do notice however all their articles are very well written and and follows conventional journalism, probably because of Ghandi. Even Chee's books and his action do not reconcile.

It appears more like a cult. Though not an accurate term but thats the closest that I can think of.

 

[scroobal]

Chicken and egg situation for Dr Chee and SDP. Present local electoral system heavily stacked against Oppos, so they opt out of playing the 'game' and play their 'own game'. Very long difficult 'game' to play sustained by hope. Not my cup of tea.

Thought I concede it is always stacked against the opposition, the SDP has underperformed compared to others and in the last GE that he contested and led the party, they were the worst performers.

Thats like a lawyer with withering reputation in professional live having faced multiple malpractice suits and resulting drop in clients declares that he will pursue his true interest - teaching.

Frankly, I doubt "their own game" is not what they intended for in the first place. It sounds like only game they know.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps

Frankly, I doubt "their own game" is not what they intended for in the first place. It sounds like only game they know.

 

[scroobal]

Interesting you raise this issue. I recall John Tan in Belinda's court saying something to effect that Dr Chee is well respected, has standing and taken seriously by the big western human rights NGOs and he developed all such relationships from scratch, in effect Dr Chee is THE MAN. Get the same sort of impression from people like One2Unite in this forum.

Btw I thought Ling quit SDP, also Wong?

I actually had an inkling of some sort when La Mei kept talking about minor HDB issues, police parking and other trivial matters but one swallow can't make a summer. The thing that piqued my interest was the article on the young malay couple and the thoughts they shared.Then the soldier's article, followed by John Tan's handling of JCU matter and lastly the clincher - Seelan's Sri Lanka peace appeal.

You are right about One2unite - quite a decent chap and logical chap but the cult like worship is always there.

 

[Areopagus]

The issue here is transparency and accountability.

Read Saturday's ST on why Transparency International did not move to Singapore but stayed in KL!!!

 

[scroobal]

The issue here is transparency and accountability.

Read Saturday's ST on why Transparency International did not move to Singapore but stayed in KL!!!

Thats stating the obvious. Thats what all Singaporeans expect and want from the PAP. We are far behind the developed world and certainly does not correspond with our wealth.

The issue is how best to force a change for the better from the PAP or get rid of it altogether.

 

[Ramseth]

The issue is how best to force a change for the better from the PAP or get rid of it altogether.

To get rid of the PAP safely, you'd need about 50 candidates capable of winning elections without fighting among themselves first, about 30 of which ministerial calibres capable of forming and running a government.

 

[scroobal]

To get rid of the PAP safely, you'd need about 50 candidates capable of winning elections without fighting among themselves first, about 30 of which ministerial calibres capable of forming and running a government.

There is no way to get rid of the PAP over the next 3 GEs. They are firmly entrenched with tax payers funding their entire grassroots support base via People Association, the GRC having stranglehold on the notion of democracy and ever present defamation laws etc.

The only way is to chip away its majority and the number of seats, Target should be max 59& of votes given to them, couple more seats. Our hope is the vote base and the internet.

The other avenue is old man kicks the bucket and the power dynamics changes. Then again, we might see Ho Ching consolidating power and becoming the dowager.

 

[silverfox@]

To get rid of the PAP safely, you'd need about 50 candidates capable of winning elections without fighting among themselves first, about 30 of which ministerial calibres capable of forming and running a government.

To get rid of the PAP safely, you'd need about 50 good candidates.

That's the whole problem. They have difficulty even in fielding up 5 good candidates.
So what's their slogan? Alternate voice in parliament against the PAP, or For the People?

The problem is these candidates (majority) argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

[kakowi]

To get rid of the PAP safely, you'd need about 50 good candidates.

That's the whole problem. They have difficulty even in fielding up 5 good candidates.
So what's their slogan? Alternate voice in parliament against the PAP, or For the People?

The problem is these candidates (majority) argue just for the sake of arguing.

If there is a dearth of candidates, then all the more they need to support each other and not waste resources.

One alternative is to encourage an entrepreunerial stance in opposition politics. Small pockets of political parties cropping up, each of them concentrating on only 1 GRC.

This may lead to more candidates coming forth because it appeals to their self-interest in the same way as ministerial and MP salaries appeal to the PAP candidates. There is the added advantage that they are their own boss.

In this way, there is concentration and focus of limited resources on specific targets.

There is also the advantage that these political parties are not tied to the capabilities of any one leader. The choice of a leader is important - he can lead you to claim the forest or bring you to the outhouse.

But they need to agree on a collective platform and not deviate from it, at least in the public's eye. Message must be clear and simple. Product easily identifiable. No public confusion, no public quarrels otherwise it is so simple to destroy that sense of unity.