UOB's $181m suit over 'inflated housing loans'

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Papsmearer[/COLOR];2093083]Frankly, I don't think there is anything hanky panky about this deal. The Leeporter Cheryl Ong is just trying to stir shit. .

Sir Reporter Cheryl Ong might have a point . She might be saying "its still a form of "Cash Back" "


and a very Risky one in a Falling Property Market .


Sir , what do you think ???

is it Fair to the Minority Shareholders of HH ???

 

[Papsmearer]

Sir Reporter Cheryl Ong might have a point . She might be saying "its still a form of "Cash Back" "


and a very Risky one in a Falling Property Market .


Sir , what do you think ???

is it Fair to the Minority Shareholders of HH ???

It makes no difference to the minority shareholders. Its just an internal alignment they are doing, like right hand giving to the left. All within the same body. If Cheryl Ong is saying that HH sold the 7 units at a "loss" to their subsidiary HH Residences, then by definition, HH Residences made a "gain" by buying these 7 units. However, the minority shareholders who have a stake in the companies that originally owned the 7 units also have the same stake in HH Residence. So, its not an affect on them. as I have mentioned, these companies (eg Bukit Panjang Plaza Pte Ltd) were set up to do that one development. They are going to be wind up now that they have sold the remaining units to HH Residences. I am going to guess that since these last 7 units were the most difficult to sell, HH Residence will just rent them out as high end condos. At least they will get some cash flow out of it rather then sitting empty now for almost 3-4 years.

 

[mojito]

Hiap Hoe should do away with their useless agents and hire my associates instead. We will partition each condo into 20 beds to be rented out to health professionals on short stints in the Republic. I assure you it will be a lucrative win-win for all parties.

 

[kukubird59]

Bro KUKU Bird , dont like that . I truly enjoy Papsmearer input and his contribution to this thread .

hahaha....kopi soh......well done......
pse continue to lead the empty vessel on and let him make a fool of himself with his insightful replies.....
the adage is always true......if you keep quiet, nobody will know how dumb are you......lol.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

It makes no difference to the minority shareholders. Its just an internal alignment they are doing, like right hand giving to the left. All within the same body. If Cheryl Ong is saying that HH sold the 7 units at a "loss" to their subsidiary HH Residences, then by definition, HH Residences made a "gain" by buying these 7 units. However, the minority shareholders who have a stake in the companies that originally owned the 7 units also have the same stake in HH Residence. So, its not an affect on them. as I have mentioned, these companies (eg Bukit Panjang Plaza Pte Ltd) were set up to do that one development. They are going to be wind up now that they have sold the remaining units to HH Residences. I am going to guess that since these last 7 units were the most difficult to sell, HH Residence will just rent them out as high end condos. At least they will get some cash flow out of it rather then sitting empty now for almost 3-4 years.

Well said . Hiap Hoe Ltd 's shareholders should fire sleeping Directors !!!

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

This is not the relevant issue. The issue is "What was the price of Marina Collection in 2011 when UOB did the loan?" If the current market price at that time in 2011 was only $2000 psf or less and the S & P was signed for $2400-$2600 psf, and the UOB valuator confirmed this price, then UOB is the one that has flawed credit process. Its already common knowledge at that time that most of the Sentosa developments suffered a decline in price. Why then should UOB lend money based on a non market price?

Greed and more Greed . UOB and Lippo both wayang buying time . Case will likely drag on for a few years

until the High end Pty Segment prices recover or break even. then settled out of Court .

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Hiap Hoe should do away with their useless agents and hire my associates instead. We will partition each condo into 20 beds to be rented out to health professionals on short stints in the Republic. I assure you it will be a lucrative win-win for all parties.

agreed , rent them out better option . Rather than buying and selling must pay lawyer and stamp fees some more

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

hahaha....kopi soh......well done......
pse continue to lead the empty vessel on and let him make a fool of himself with his insightful replies.....
the adage is always true......if you keep quiet, nobody will know how dumb are you......lol.

dont like that ... He write got logic . Now thread got more than 9k hits horr !!!

 

[kukubird59]

dont like that ... He write got logic . Now thread got more than 9k hits horr !!!

P.S. I thought Bukit Panjang Plaza is owned by Capitaland and not HH.

I am going to guess that since these last 7 units were the most difficult to sell, HH Residence will just rent them out as high end condos

hahaha....of course got logics.....
we can also see that the empty vessel is only thinking and guessing......
and already he has shown himself to be the smartest guy in this forum.....

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Update On UOB vs Lippo Group​

UOB cracks down on Lippo Group, seven others on back of massive Sentosa loan default

The loans are worth over $181m.

UOB is reported to be suing a subsidiary of Lippo Group along with seven other debtors over loan defaults on 38 Sentosa condominium units.

According to Maybank Kim Eng, the borrowers have over $181m in housing loans for the purchase of 38 condominium units at the Marina Collection in Sentosa. 37 out of the 38 loans that UOB financed have defaulted.

UOB claimed that it was not informed of the 22-34% discounts offered for the units and that the buyers had
secured inflated home loans from the bank.

“We understand from management that these loans were already classified as NPLs in 2Q-3Q14. Cross-checks with disclosed financials

indicate a net increase of SGD169m in UOB’s housing NPLs during these two periods. Management does not expect more to be

recognised. Some specific provisions have been made and not much more is expected. This is because the loans have LTVs of 75%, based

on current market valuations. No unit has been auctioned off,” stated Maybank Kim Eng.


- See more at: http://sbr.com.sg/financial-service...ive-sentosa-loan-default#sthash.Oor3Ejs2.dpuf

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/12/uras-reply-for-public-deserves-reliable-consistent-data/

URA’s replreliable, consistent datay for “Public deserves ”​

By Property Soul

I have written to The Straits Times Forum regarding the problem of inconsistent and incomplete private property transaction data. Below is my letter (Dec 18, Thursday) andreply from URA (Dec 23, Tuesday).

Public deserves reliable, consistent data
Published on Dec 18, 2014

THE computation of the HDB’s resale price index has recently been improved to give a more accurate picture of price movements in the public housing market (“New way to better reflect HDB resale market”; Dec 10).


In contrast, there are different property price indexes tracking the private residential market – including the Urban Redevelopment Authority’s non-landed residential Property Price Index (PPI), the SRX Property Index (SPI), the NUS Singapore Residential Price Index, and Redas’ Real Estate Sentiment Index – with each one claiming to be more accurate than the others.

The conflicting results from the monthly and quarterly property performance reports released by these organisations confuse the public. For instance, there were at least seven quarters of conflicting price signals between the PPI and SPI from 2008 till now.

Also, the private home transaction data are incomplete owing to the following loopholes:

– Lodging caveats with the Singapore Land Authority is voluntary.

– Developers are not required to submit sales data of their delicensed projects after obtaining the Temporary Occupation Permit.

– All incentives from developers – including stamp duties, cash rebates and rental guarantees – for new projects are not captured, thus inflating the transacted prices of new sales.

The inflated prices of new sales in turn serve as a biased reference for valuation of similar properties. Thus, buyers risk taking bigger housing loans from banks and servicing mortgages higher than the actual market values of their properties.

This defeats the Government’s intentions of ensuring financial prudence of borrowers and maintaining a sustainable property market.

The conflicting indexes make it difficult for the public to have a real picture of the latest market situation.


The market confidence of buyers and sellers is influenced by the announcement of property sales data and price indexes, affecting their bargaining during negotiations and their final decision to buy/sell their properties.

The Government also needs a reliable and consistent private property index that it can monitor closely in order to identify a “meaningful correction” before revising property cooling measures.

Upgrading to a condominium is the dream of many Singaporeans. To many, it is the most expensive purchase in their lives. They deserve more complete, transparent, accurate and consistent data concerning private residential sales in Singapore.

Vina Ip (Ms)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

URA index shows broad price trends in private home market​

Published on Dec 23, 2014

WE THANK Ms Vina Ip for her letter (“Public deserves reliable, consistent data”; last Thursday).

The Urban Redevelopment Authority’s Property Price Index (PPI) provides the public with a broad indication of price trends in the private residential market. The index covers the entire private housing market, including uncompleted and landed properties.

In contrast, the other property price indices tracking the private housing market have different coverage and methodologies. Hence, the resulting price changes may vary.

To compute the PPI, we use data from caveats lodged with the Singapore Land Authority for sub-sales and resales. For new sale transactions, we have complete data on property prices from a regular survey of developers. All discounts and rebates provided by developers are deducted to derive the nett prices.

Besides the PPI, prospective home buyers can view the transaction prices of individual private homes on our website.

We are also working towards releasing the nett prices of individual units sold by developers on our website in the first half of next year.

We assure Ms Ip that we will continue to make improvements to our property market data.
Sin Lye Chong
Group Director, Land Sales and Administration
Urban Redevelopment Authority

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Just curious if one day HDB prices drop by 25% and all foreigner HDB mortagees default who are they going to sue?

The possible scenarios will be the PRs will run road back to China , Phip , Myanmar and so on .


. Nothing much can be done . The Bank will then auction of the HDB units .

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

It has happened before, after the 1997 crisis. Interestingly, those foreigners who were caught were the Kuai Kuai type. The smart ones had long sold their flats and took profit before the crisis. So for those who can't pay, they were allowed longer repayment period / deferred payment...

The days Rent seeking by PRs will be over very soon.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

You will see this type of news when economy became bad. If the condos price double to $12m; nothing would have surface.

In fact base on Loan contract, banks must auction off those assets. Now who can tell me when is the auction date?

See Latest Update on UOB vs Lippo Group

No units have been auctioned.

UOB got holding power .

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

This happen all the time. Inflated housing loan to get extra cash to pocket.
Eg. $1m house actual selling price between buyer and seller but loan $1.5m after minus all fee they will get extra about $400k.

If applying Ranking Rules . After Fire sales , CPF will have 1st Charge on the Fire Sale proceed.

then follow by Banks .


Many Pty traders who buy during past 1 to 2 years now sitting on Negative Equity .

Even if rent out whole unit still cannot service the bank loan.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

George Yeo was a employee of LIPPO after he lost in Aljunied GRC?

GY is with Billionaires Robert Kuok 's Kerry Group

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

that's why the whole property scene is nothing but a scam , a ponzi scam and it would collapse soon. alot of idiots like UOB are are in denial till the end. what this scam is is just the tip of the iceberg. the past few years alot of conmen masqueradingas prop "gurus:" are teaching alot of idiots how to buy 10-20 properties with little or no down payments like above. this is not new. the indon banks and developers did the same thing in the 1997 asian financial crash. they are just repeating the scam here. in fact UOB fiasco is not new or isolated. It works so far as property prices goes up or rentals remains high BUT once you got just a minor crises , they would all start to default like this case 37 out of 38 at sentosa. at least 40% of all properties are bought by this method for short term speculation and the property agents are in cahoot. teh figure are so alarming in past few years , thats why garmen put up the absd and loan caps and the whole thing is unravelling very fast.Today sentosa and orchard rd properties are going for a 40-50% discounts and no takers. Now my source in banks are telling me all the housing loans are being tightened so resale is harder for buyers (even is discounted) and all existing loans are being scrutinised. this means doomsday as flpping prop is gione for good and so thiose idiots and tjose servicing teh mortagges, they are in deep shit when banks start to raise interest rates and ask for top up once reach property reach negative equity. stand chart have fired 4000 staff worldwide and at least 300 in singapore and alot of bankers are told to pack up. heard other banks are doing the same. told you in 2012-14 taht recession and deflation would hit in 2015 . having the last laugh. hahahhaha.

Bro 40% is a big number .

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Bro 40% is a big number .

That Cheebye kia claimed he is robert kuok's Neighbour with insider info.....kns chio ka pengz....
His figures and 'stats' all pull from thin air or his arsehole.....
Sentosa and orchard properties going for 40-50% discount with no takers? In his dreams or an alternate universe la.
Report already stated ltv is 75% of the inflated prices based on current market

 

[Papsmearer]

Published on Dec 23, 2014

WE THANK Ms Vina Ip for her letter (“Public deserves reliable, consistent data”; last Thursday).

The Urban Redevelopment Authority’s Property Price Index (PPI) provides the public with a broad indication of price trends in the private residential market. The index covers the entire private housing market, including uncompleted and landed properties.

In contrast, the other property price indices tracking the private housing market have different coverage and methodologies. Hence, the resulting price changes may vary.

To compute the PPI, we use data from caveats lodged with the Singapore Land Authority for sub-sales and resales. For new sale transactions, we have complete data on property prices from a regular survey of developers. All discounts and rebates provided by developers are deducted to derive the nett prices.

Besides the PPI, prospective home buyers can view the transaction prices of individual private homes on our website.

We are also working towards releasing the nett prices of individual units sold by developers on our website in the first half of next year.

We assure Ms Ip that we will continue to make improvements to our property market data.
Sin Lye Chong
Group Director, Land Sales and Administration
Urban Redevelopment Authority

As I have mentioned before, I think the UOB lawsuit is really without merit. This statement by URA's Sin Lye Chong is really going to torpedo the UOB lawsuit. SLC is basically saying that they have the complete data on all property transactions from the developers INCLUDING ALL DISCOUNTS AND REBATES PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS. If its in the hands of the URA, then its in the public domain, how can UOB say it was not aware. As far as Lippo is concerned, they reported all the discounts and rebates to URA already. The onus is on UOB to find out what they are in the process of adjudicating the mortgage. URA uses the date to compile the PPI, so a big prominent bank like UOB should have no problems approaching URA or their contacts in URA to provide the specific discounts for specific units in Lippo's development. After all, its commonly acknowledged that discounts and rebates are given even in a strong market. Alternatively, UOB could have simply ask Lippo what were the discounts for these specific units. If Lippo expressly denied any rebates were given, then that is grounds for a lawsuit. But did UOB ask them? The whole crux of the case lies with the property valuator. Its his job to find out the actual value of the property given the sales of similar units and any discounts must be taken into account. He is also tasked with finding out what they are. The fact that no property valuators were included in the lawsuit is very curious to me. Did they use their own in house people? Did they ignore an independent appraisal by the property valuator? f the answer is yes to any of this, then the lawsuit is pointless. But then, it will come out in the trial whether this is a pissing contest between 2 well connected families. i.e. Wee VS Lee

 

[Papsmearer]

See Latest Update on UOB vs Lippo Group

No units have been auctioned.

UOB got holding power .

The reason is that if the units are auctioned off, UOB will suffer a realized loss. Now, the loss is only on paper. But they already have moved it to their non performing portfolio. Sooner or later, maybe in the next fiscal year they will have to write off this non performing portfolio. which means they will have to sell the units. In the meantime, they go to court and see if they can reverse the transactions and walk away with breakeven.