Time for Reconciliation

[steffychun]

Previously, there were people like Tan Cheng Bock, Tan Soo Khoon and Ong Teng Cheong. They spoke up without fear, according to their conscience.

In the current batch, there is Denise Phua and Lily Neo. You also cannot discount the possibility that some of them are just keeping silent about their true views. I believe that Tan Chuan Jin may be one of those who feels that the PAP needs to change its ways and if he were PM he would discontinue alot of the disgusting practices that we see today. Time will tell as he is still new. But I feel he is someone with political ideals, not just a technocrat, unlike his good friend and former SAF colleague who is a pure policy-oriented technocrat.

However, alot of the newbies are just bureaucrats and not really politicians with principles and stands on issues.

Tan CJ won't change things. Georgy Yeo wanted to but thought better and stopped short. Change or no change, Georgy got booted out. So TCJ doesnn't want to face a GY situation yet--although he will since he's in GCT's group. He's after all another BG...

 

[zhihau]

There are good people within the PAP too. Tan Cheng Bock being one (and not the only one) of them.

agree, another good Tan is Tan S.K. , one of the speaker of parliament.

 

[steffychun]

agree, another good Tan is Tan S.K. , one of the speaker of parliament.

True. very true

 

[scroobal]

Actually I think they knew. But for some reason they thought or assumed that TJS had a natural voter base. It requires some level of back of the envelope calculation. In the last few days the urge to switch to TJS was strong but I could not pin down as a strong anchor. He also did very badly in the CNA forum. It was obvious that he did not read, understand or chose to ignore the constitution. TKL had a better grasp.

TCB also did not help by his lacklustre performance. It requires education and critical thinking if you want to handle this govt.

Scroobal, unfortunately a large number of people do NOT understand why it was so imperative to deny TT the office of President.

 

[scroobal]

I remember the machine gun nest in parliament - Tan Soo Khoon , Tan Cheng Bock and Wan Soon Bee. With the 3 gone, we have idiots like Irene Ng, Cynthia Phua, and other imbeciles.

agree, another good Tan is Tan S.K. , one of the speaker of parliament.

 

[steffychun]

Actually I think they knew. But for some reason they thought or assumed that TJS had a natural voter base. It requires some level of back of the envelope calculation. In the last few days the urge to switch to TJS was strong but I could not pin down as a strong anchor. He also did very badly in the CNA forum. It was obvious that he did not read, understand or chose to ignore the constitution. TKL had a better grasp.

TCB also did not help by his lacklustre performance. It requires education and critical thinking if you want to handle this govt.

Yes spot on. TJS is a financial person not a constitution expert.

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

Actually I think they knew. But for some reason they thought or assumed that TJS had a natural voter base.

Then they are fools. The truth is that TJS does have a natural voter base of some 25-30% (people who will always vote against the PAP no matter what).

Those who believed that the natural opposition voter base is 40% are morons. They need to realise that out of the 40% who voted for the opposition during the GE, many are swing voters who vote based on who the best candidate is, not based on party affiliations. How else would you explain the different vote percentages across elections, if the % of PAP and opposition supporters always remains the same?

Second, they failed to factor in that TJS could ONLY win votes from pro-opposition voters, just as TT could ONLY win votes from pro-PAP voters.

The ONLY candidate who can garner votes from both pro-opposition and pro-PAP voters is TCB, and there won't be another one like him anytime soon. He will be too old in 6 years time. Tan Soo Khoon and Wan Soon Bee are also too old. The only one who fits the bill and is young enough (but seems to lack the guts that TCB has) is GY.

 

[steffychun]

Then they are fools. The truth is that TJS does have a natural voter base of some 25-30% (people who will always vote against the PAP no matter what).

Those who believed that the natural opposition voter base is 40% are morons. They need to realise that out of the 40% who voted for the opposition during the GE, many are swing voters who vote based on who the best candidate is, not based on party affiliations. How else would you explain the different vote percentages across elections, if the % of PAP and opposition supporters always remains the same?

Second, they failed to factor in that TJS could ONLY win votes from pro-opposition voters, just as TT could ONLY win votes from pro-PAP voters.

The ONLY candidate who can garner votes from both pro-opposition and pro-PAP voters is TCB, and there won't be another one like him anytime soon. He will be too old in 6 years time. Tan Soo Khoon and Wan Soon Bee are also too old. The only one who fits the bill and is young enough (but seems to lack the guts that TCB has) is GY.

TJS had the SDP-ish vote which made him the 4th place person at first. Then "clever" Nicole Seah endorsed him without any thought. So He gained the "I love pretty Nicole" voters.

 

[Whats4]

u guys keep blaming tjs and tkl for splitting the votes, yet the true fault and problems lies with singaporean themselves. tt is known for its ties and association with pap yet still can get 35.19% of votes? what does this tells us about singaporean mentality and attitude? remenber all the kpkb about pap policies for the last 5 years and they are still getting 60% of the votes.

 

[steffychun]

u guys keep blaming tjs and tkl for splitting the votes, yet the true fault and problems lies with singaporean themselves. tt is known for its ties and association with pap yet still can get 35.19% of votes? what does this tells us about singaporean mentality and attitude? remenber all the kpkb about pap policies for the last 5 years and they are still getting 60% of the votes.

Was it Singaporeans fault? They didnt ask for a sore loser to enter the race.

 

[Whats4]

Was it Singaporeans fault? They didnt ask for a sore loser to enter the race.

What sore loser? Nobody likes to lose but any candidates kpkb abt losing? Did they cry foul for losing?
Did singaporean not know abt pap policies? If not why are they blaming those who are running for the office fir splitting the votes? If 35% are dumb enough to continue vote pap for more screwing, its their own problem. If u want to find fault, blame those 35%. Why blame the candidates?

 

[The_Hypocrite]

The truth is blame the PAP..they are the ones that caused the problems for Singaporeans. However Singaporeans still support them. For this PE, the real vote spoiler was TKL. His voters would have supported TCB and TJS and that would have turned the tide against TT..but too little too late now

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Yes blame the PAP and Singaporeans.

 

[PTADER]

Also, if you think the PAP wouldn't have minded a TCB victory, tell me why they awarded COEs to Tan Jee Say and Tan Kin Lian, both of whom did not strictly meet the criteria? Why even roll out Tony Tan to contest against TCB in the first place? The rulers of this country DID NOT want TCB as President, period.

And you are going to offer me the lame "but the PEC decided to grant the COEs to TJS and TKL, who are you to disagree" retort, then my reply is that this is a classic example of falling into the trap of being awestruck by validation from the establishment that one forgets who the enemy is.

So you all want democracy and the right to vote, etc but will only be happy only as long as your candidate of choice wins.

When your candidate of choice does not win, you turn petulant, start ranting and raving like sore losers and wish that you have the PAP-style democracy in which the level field is tilted in favour of your candidate of choice. Even worse you want the help of the PAP to tilt the playing field in your favour. Everyone else who are interested in contesting should not contest except the candidate of your choice? What democracy is this?

When TKL started blaming TJS for his predicament, many were quick to mock and ridicule him as a sore loser. Now that he has lost, those who had mocked and ridiculed him are behaving exactly like him: petulant sore losers.

I am meeting Cheng Bock sometime in the next fortnight and will tell him truthfully why I knew he would find it hard to cross the line even though I had hoped for his or a TJS' win. And that is his lacklustre performance during the PE campaign, as admitted by even the most ardent of TCB's supporter in this forum.

 

[PTADER]

u guys keep blaming tjs and tkl for splitting the votes, yet the true fault and problems lies with singaporean themselves. tt is known for its ties and association with pap yet still can get 35.19% of votes? what does this tells us about singaporean mentality and attitude? remenber all the kpkb about pap policies for the last 5 years and they are still getting 60% of the votes.

Agree. This is what I wrote in another thread.

No point behaving like sore losers and little, petulant Tan Kin Lians for this loss. I am sure TJS' supporters could muster similar arguments along similar lines for his loss.

Accept the loss as a lesson that unless the various opposition parties are willing to go beyond their selfish and narrow interest (Ref: WP Melvin's "TJS' win may be good for one or two opposition parties" (read: SDP / NSP) "but not for the only opposition that has won seats away from the PAP" (read: WP) , Singaporeans are going to continue to have to live with the PAP for a long, long time to come.

What you will continue to have is a PAP government and a few $200K+/ year opposition tokens happy to play small time, kucing kurap village headmen and happily feeding and slurping from the same pig's trough that the PAP feeds on.

If Singaporeans in general and opposition supporters in particular get some sort of vicarious thrill and satisfaction from watching one of their "own" elevated to the position where they (opposition tokens) can feed and slurp from the same PAP pig's trough while they (Singaporeans / Opposition Supporters) themselves continue to struggle with their daily lives, they will simply have to live with their decisions.

 

[PTADER]

However Singaporeans still support them.

One of the interesting thing was the little side-show on salaries. It shows that Singaporeans in general don't really mind million dollar ministerial salaries and it is not a big issue as it has been made out to be.

I am sure Gerard Ee will take note of this.

 

[SotongMee]

No desire and ambition how to be the PresiTan? lol

Sorry, I used the term "financial stability" wrongly as it indirectly implies financial difficulty. A few guys I know are just crazy over achievements in life. Sadly, their only measure for success is money - not that they are lacking. It is just a crave. Somehow, I see the way that TJS talk and behaviour fit nicely into one of those moulds.

 

[SotongMee]

Singaporeans also don't get swayed by promises of S$1,500 per month NS Men pay revision nor a 50% pay discount from Mr PresiTan. Yes it is a freak result since 65% never voted for TT, if only TKL and TCB votes went to TJS.

One of the interesting thing was the little side-show on salaries. It shows that Singaporeans in general don't really mind million dollar ministerial salaries and it is not a big issue as it has been made out to be.

I am sure Gerard Ee will take note of this.

 

[PTADER]

Have seen a lot of anti TJS posts lately, mostly in the line "fuck TJS, you screwed up TCB chances of winning". If these people are true anti-PAP supporters, maybe they accidentally banged their head on the wall.

It is the myopic vision at work and the PAP 888s are capitalising on it and happily riding on it. If this sort of sentiment that this "anti-PAP supporters" adopt take root and becomes widespread, it will simply discourage those "heavyweight" oppositionists waiting in the wings from coming onboard.

This would be a pity as most of these oppositionists are the ones who can well afford not to come on board in the first place and can afford to emigrate if things turn bad.

The losers will be these "anti-PAP supporters" Singaporeans struggling with their everyday lives who, ironically, need these "heavyweights" waiting in the wings to step up and come onboard to help better their lives.

 

[Gallego99]

If anything, the results of PE2011 will serve as a window of opportunity for the opposition to plan for the next GE by 2016. In fact it was both a moral and tactical victory for TJS. He now knows where he is likely to draw support and it likely he will jump on this opportunity to work the ground.