This policewoman very steady

[Cestbon]

If I were the police. I will also shoot another few round make sure he dead rather than me or the victim. I will shot at least total 3 bullet. 1st shot like the lady cop. 2nd and 3 rd on the head. If he move again I will shoot until my revolver empty.
This type of criminal desert to die. If put in prison waste tax payer money .

 

[Papsmearer]

The weapon in the hand of the law enforcer is not only meant to subdue the criminal, but also to ensure innocent public safety. If the criminal had held no hostage at knive-point, your position is valid.

I'd give you an example in Singapore. Let's not name names. About 20 years ago, more than 10 detectives ambushed a known gunman and cop-killer in a coffeeshop. He was riddled with more than 40 shots.

What was the justifying reason? Any possibility of him pulling his trigger could mean another officer dead or innocent public dead.

It's legal commonsense to exercise self-defence, protect the innocent instead of the suspect first, when it comes down to the byeline.

Please lah, your example is cock. The real reason they riddled this guy with 40 shots was purely revenge for the slaying of their brother officer. In this case you mentioned, the alleged killer was having morning coffee in a busy coffeeshop. Plains clothes officers quietly took seats in the tables around him. They claim he was going for a weapon and opened fire on him. Imagine if you are one of the innocent kopitiam patrons seating around or an employee, and all of a sudden all hell breaks lose and bullets are whizzing and richochetting by. This incident should have send warning signs to many sinkies who have half a brain, with questions like:
1) Where was this alleged killer's weapon. None found on him.
2) Why was he not apprehended, asked to give up, or arrested? Instead of an ambush style killing.
3) What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty? Since when did the citizens allow the SPF to be judge, jury, and executioner?

 

[vamjok]

that example i also heard of the inside story. it was said he was just having his breakfast and was shot behind at his back without any warning or verbal annoucement asking him to surrender instead

 

[uncleyap]

She is actually quite capable, I won't think Wong Ah Seng's home team woman can do that. But I am unsure if that deployment tactic was correct because she seems to be the ONLY SHOOTER that 公安 had depended on. That is unsafe. A textbook police deployment for that situation would be several snipers on rooftops near by or from windows opposite or hidden in vans on the street, covering that spot from several angles.

I hope at least Wong Ah Seng's world class home team can at very least do this sniper part right, for the sake of our peasants.

I am writing tonight here and on blog about what Wong Ah Seng' mata did with huge mata deployment at Speakers Cornered on 16.Sept.2006 WB-IMF. I think I can write several parts of that story.

Would you believe that only just for Dr. CSJ said he intended to march to Parliament + Suntec + Istana on that day, they hovered 2 RSAF Puma helicopters above that area each day? And on at least the 1st and last day of the 3 days stand-off there was at least 10 mins that a Puma was directly hovering above Speaker Corner.
:oIo:famiLEE LEEgime!

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=65668

http://uncleyap.blogspot.com/2010/07/activists-repeatedly-caught-familee.html

I reviewed the video again today, and found that the hostage actually climbed out and fled away within 2 seconds after she fell down with the aggressor at the 1st shot.

That means the hostage taker is down and unarmed, and hostage is already safe after 1 shot.

But the mata woman after getting herself balanced and turned around, dashed into the door and added 3 more gunshots. That is unnecessary for law enforcement and protecting hostage already.

That is actually extra-judiciary execution, and I read from web interview that she actually received order from commands above to STRIKE THE CRIMINAL DOWN. Over killed already. Things happened too fast and in my initial viewing yesterday I did not noticed, but today while my recollections of that video floated up in my mind I suspected that I missed out on the situation of hostage. Wondering weather she fled, I came back to review this video again.

When hostage is already saved and criminal already shot and unarmed. He can be arrested, he may or may not survive the shot but he have the rights to receive medical treatment. I don't know PRC's laws but I don't think 公安 are supposed to be Cowboy Sheriff cum Judge cum Executioners.

But the thing is when this peasant did a desperate thing like that, he should know that he was putting his own live at stake and bullets will come at him. :(

The way she ended the show, now appears to be conducting an elimination order. 不留活口?

 

[matamafia]

Please lah, your example is cock. The real reason they riddled this guy with 40 shots was purely revenge for the slaying of their brother officer. In this case you mentioned, the alleged killer was having morning coffee in a busy coffeeshop. Plains clothes officers quietly took seats in the tables around him. They claim he was going for a weapon and opened fire on him. Imagine if you are one of the innocent kopitiam patrons seating around or an employee, and all of a sudden all hell breaks lose and bullets are whizzing and richochetting by. This incident should have send warning signs to many sinkies who have half a brain, with questions like:
1) Where was this alleged killer's weapon. None found on him.
2) Why was he not apprehended, asked to give up, or arrested? Instead of an ambush style killing.
3) What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty? Since when did the citizens allow the SPF to be judge, jury, and executioner?

I recall 2 different cases in SG.

1 at Hock Hai Building -South Bridge Rd area. 2 mata on a petrol car spotted a suspect with a bag, spot checked that fellow. After the incident found that guy was supposed to go to mata-chu to test urine but evaded law. Anyway while doing spot-check the suspect pulled out a serious knife from the bag and chopped matas. 1 mata dead 1 injured on the spot. The injured mata pull out gun and chase shooting the suspect who was running away. One by-standing old man on 2nd floor was shot by mata in his leg. After mata emptied his gun the suspect was also dead. So good shooting? 1 mata dead + 1 injured + 1 suspect dead + 1 peasant injured.

2nd case at Geylang Serai coffee shop, about 5 matas went to attend a call that a man caused trouble there and refused to pay for his food. When matas showed up the suspect dashed into a food stall and took out a knife, and stand-off the 5 matas, a crowd built up to watch this show. After long moments of stand-off the mata still had no ways. Suddenly one peasant from behind jumped the suspect grabbed his arm. Then all 5 mata jumped on to start a violent struggle. In the middle of it the suspect lose his knife but manage to reach his hand to grab a mata's gun. And he fired a shot during the struggle. An old Malay man sitting in that coffeeshop was shot dead. The suspect was arrested and charged for the killing.

Smart SGP matas?

Compared with this PRC woman mata.

 

[matamafia]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2010-07/09/c_12317316.htm

Video interview of mata woman.

 

[wuqi256]

She must have been a very big fan of Clint eastwood....

Oh or a big fan of double tap, well in this case quadruple extended tap. In this confrontation where a life was at stake, I guess she felt forced to end the conflict in the quickest way possible but i saw that as the hostage just got out, she fired 3 more rounds into the hostage taker.

Depending on the weapon used and how well she knows the gun, it should have been 2 or 3 rounds and thats it to make him go down. Sometimes more rounds may be necessary to put a suspect down as he may be intoxicated or on drugs or having an adrenaline rush which numbs the impact of the shots and still continue to be a threat.

Agree that the 3 shots may be unnecessary as he went down but that doesn't mean he died immediately as he could rise up and still cut someone if the wound wasn't immediately fatal. It wasn't clear whether it was a head shot although it seems likely at this distance and given her training, likely to go for the head. The remaining 3 shots doesn't seem to be all on the head though.

Unlike movies, people don't immediately die from wounds depending on where they get shot. if the bullet passes straight through without fragmenting much or causing cavitation near or if its missing vital organs, the person could well be relatively unharmed and still be able to retaliate and pose a threat.

She saved the courts a lot of time and money by doing what the court in China will still hand the hostage taker in the end, hot lead encased in copper. Dying is not the worst, its the time spent in jail waiting for shiny pieces of lead that is the real tormentor. That plus likely his organs will be "HOTAed"

 

[wuqi256]

If I were the police. I will also shoot another few round make sure he dead rather than me or the victim. I will shot at least total 3 bullet. 1st shot like the lady cop. 2nd and 3 rd on the head. If he move again I will shoot until my revolver empty.
This type of criminal desert to die. If put in prison waste tax payer money .

In this type of life and death situation, there is very little time to think and respond, much less to think about giving the suspect his day in court. The adrenaline gets pumped up and you just want to end the conflict and FAST. Even for trained personnel, its never easy and there is always the fear when you are in that situation. No matter how much shooting experience one has, its mainly at targets and very different when you have a real live human being being the "target".

No amount of shooting at targets can make you prepared and how often does one shoot a human being? Unless you are a Jap soldier trained during WWII, otherwise shooting or killing real people during training is not possible. Unlike targets, people do get up and they do shoot back. Although i frown on summary killings myself, in this particular scenario, there can be no quarter given.

I once did a bit of double tap myself and one customized scenario that was given to me when i was at a range in US was that there was a hostage infront of a target.

I had to get him in "the zone" with 2 rounds and at least one round has to be in the core torso. I had to do this within a certain time limit from drawing, acquiring/aiming to firing. I failed most of the time, always missing with the 2nd round and sometimes even wounding the "hostage" with at least one of the rounds, it was that hard even at just 15 yards(about 13 metres i think).

I did better with a 9mm gun than a .38 special. Never tried with a .22 although it will definitely give a much better grouping. With a .45 it was impossible for me though i am pretty sure one round in or near the core will be a serious showstopper unless he was wearing body armour. Even with a .45, my instructor always taught me to go for the 2nd round as you rather give than take - "give the lead rather then take the lead"

 

[wuqi256]

Please lah, your example is cock. The real reason they riddled this guy with 40 shots was purely revenge for the slaying of their brother officer. In this case you mentioned, the alleged killer was having morning coffee in a busy coffeeshop. Plains clothes officers quietly took seats in the tables around him. They claim he was going for a weapon and opened fire on him. Imagine if you are one of the innocent kopitiam patrons seating around or an employee, and all of a sudden all hell breaks lose and bullets are whizzing and richochetting by. This incident should have send warning signs to many sinkies who have half a brain, with questions like:
1) Where was this alleged killer's weapon. None found on him.
2) Why was he not apprehended, asked to give up, or arrested? Instead of an ambush style killing.
3) What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty? Since when did the citizens allow the SPF to be judge, jury, and executioner?

Agree that he should have been apprehended in other manner or approached in a less crowded area. The confronting of a dangerous, armed criminial in such a public area speaks of something else.

Though to be fair when they chose to go for him, they do not know if he was armed. The weapon he used was a .22 and its not a very large gun and can be easily concealed.

In this case however, they took no chances but it could have been settled in a less violent and definitely less bloody manner. The amount of .38 lead in him could be used to make a large fishing sinker.

He died without having drunk his morning kopi.

 

[myo539]

I agree, she wasn't actually in a steady position when she took the first shot. She could have easily shot the hostage accidentally.....Did the policewoman and her superiors consider what would happen to her if she had shot the hostage instead? QUOTE]

Some forummers always like to under-estimate the men-in-blue. HK police are not stupid, neither are Spore. They must have selected the best marksman or woman for the job. Give the men-in-blue their fair dues.

As I understand, many of them are not in blue when on duties. The ones in blue are often for show only - to show their presence to give people a sense of security.

 

[dramarama]

It's quite clear that she's no normal patrol officer incognito in plainclothes. She's a trained negotiator and markswoman. As for the four shots, they were of course necessary, more if she deemed fit. The hostage taker still had his knife and his hostage in his hands. Anything short of ensuring he's dead might mean a fatal plunge of his knife into the hostage.

Yes, you're right, she's no ordinary policewomen, probably from the special forces. Look at her calmness after the shooting. Was send to finish off the guy.

 

[dysentry]

They actually laced the coke bottle with drugs but he was dithering and didn't take the bait.

The policewoman was focused enough to wait for the guy to look away before drawing her gun, and placed herself in a good spot just 3 steps away.

After seeing the guy stab the innocent girl in the arm and the blood on her, the number of bullets didn't matter anymore. Kill him by any means.

 

[longbow]

It's quite clear that she's no normal patrol officer incognito in plainclothes. She's a trained negotiator and markswoman. As for the four shots, they were of course necessary, more if she deemed fit. The hostage taker still had his knife and his hostage in his hands. Anything short of ensuring he's dead might mean a fatal plunge of his knife into the hostage.

I agree with you 100% Hostage was under threat with deadly weapon. She saw opportunity and made the move. From our angle we do not know what is actually happening. And when she had to make sure that hostage taker was dead or else he could retaliate. Her position was probably much better then that of any sniper.

 

[Papsmearer]

that example i also heard of the inside story. it was said he was just having his breakfast and was shot behind at his back without any warning or verbal annoucement asking him to surrender instead

This is correct, and the police later covered up and said he was going for a gun. But no gun was ever found. The coroner also conveniently did not reveal the exact cause of death. Given the amount of rounds fired at him, I am sure he was hit in the hand, arms, leg, etc. But these are not normally fatal. The bullet in the back of the head execution style should be the cause of death, and should have raised many questions.

 

[Papsmearer]

I recall 2 different cases in SG.

1 at Hock Hai Building -South Bridge Rd area. 2 mata on a petrol car spotted a suspect with a bag, spot checked that fellow. After the incident found that guy was supposed to go to mata-chu to test urine but evaded law. Anyway while doing spot-check the suspect pulled out a serious knife from the bag and chopped matas. 1 mata dead 1 injured on the spot. The injured mata pull out gun and chase shooting the suspect who was running away. One by-standing old man on 2nd floor was shot by mata in his leg. After mata emptied his gun the suspect was also dead. So good shooting? 1 mata dead + 1 injured + 1 suspect dead + 1 peasant injured.

2nd case at Geylang Serai coffee shop, about 5 matas went to attend a call that a man caused trouble there and refused to pay for his food. When matas showed up the suspect dashed into a food stall and took out a knife, and stand-off the 5 matas, a crowd built up to watch this show. After long moments of stand-off the mata still had no ways. Suddenly one peasant from behind jumped the suspect grabbed his arm. Then all 5 mata jumped on to start a violent struggle. In the middle of it the suspect lose his knife but manage to reach his hand to grab a mata's gun. And he fired a shot during the struggle. An old Malay man sitting in that coffeeshop was shot dead. The suspect was arrested and charged for the killing.

Smart SGP matas?

Compared with this PRC woman mata.

I don't think you can compare like that, this chinese woman cop is an executioner, plain and simple.

 

[Papsmearer]

Oh or a big fan of double tap, well in this case quadruple extended tap. In this confrontation where a life was at stake, I guess she felt forced to end the conflict in the quickest way possible but i saw that as the hostage just got out, she fired 3 more rounds into the hostage taker.

Depending on the weapon used and how well she knows the gun, it should have been 2 or 3 rounds and thats it to make him go down. Sometimes more rounds may be necessary to put a suspect down as he may be intoxicated or on drugs or having an adrenaline rush which numbs the impact of the shots and still continue to be a threat.

Agree that the 3 shots may be unnecessary as he went down but that doesn't mean he died immediately as he could rise up and still cut someone if the wound wasn't immediately fatal. It wasn't clear whether it was a head shot although it seems likely at this distance and given her training, likely to go for the head. The remaining 3 shots doesn't seem to be all on the head though.

Unlike movies, people don't immediately die from wounds depending on where they get shot. if the bullet passes straight through without fragmenting much or causing cavitation near or if its missing vital organs, the person could well be relatively unharmed and still be able to retaliate and pose a threat.

She saved the courts a lot of time and money by doing what the court in China will still hand the hostage taker in the end, hot lead encased in copper. Dying is not the worst, its the time spent in jail waiting for shiny pieces of lead that is the real tormentor. That plus likely his organs will be "HOTAed"

I think people like u need to go to the nearest vet and get yourself neutered. Why? U are fucking rabid. Has it ever occured to you this person is mentally ill, or emotionally distraught? Maybe the woman he held hostage is a cheating lying stealing wife or GF? Maybe he has hit such a low point in his life, he feels he has nothing to lose? If people who are mentally ill were to be executed, u would be one. This guy is armed with only a fucking knife. How much of a threat was he went all the other cops doing crowd control were not even drawing their weapon? How much of a threat was he when hundreds of bystanders allowed to crowd so near the scene? He was shot once, and was down on the ground. Not very difficult for another cop to put a knee into his back and handcuff him. No need to pump 3 more into him while he was on his stomach. Only as sicko like you think its ok. U better pray someday someone don't double tap you.

 

[Papsmearer]

They actually laced the coke bottle with drugs but he was dithering and didn't take the bait.

The policewoman was focused enough to wait for the guy to look away before drawing her gun, and placed herself in a good spot just 3 steps away.

After seeing the guy stab the innocent girl in the arm and the blood on her, the number of bullets didn't matter anymore. Kill him by any means.

I think people like u need to go to the nearest vet and get yourself neutered. Why? U are fucking rabid. Has it ever occured to you this person is mentally ill, or emotionally distraught? Maybe the woman he held hostage is a cheating lying stealing wife or GF? Maybe he has hit such a low point in his life, he feels he has nothing to lose? If people who are mentally ill were to be executed, u would be one. This guy is armed with only a fucking knife. How much of a threat was he went all the other cops doing crowd control were not even drawing their weapon? How much of a threat was he when hundreds of bystanders allowed to crowd so near the scene? He was shot once, and was down on the ground. Not very difficult for another cop to put a knee into his back and handcuff him. No need to pump 3 more into him while he was on his stomach. Only as sicko like you think its ok.

 

[Ramseth]

You're right. It wasn't an arrest mission. It was an execution mission (or as you put it, a revenge mission). But it's completely legal. A fully legally documented and executed shoot-to-kill order and not risking him able to draw his revolver first. There's no legal requirement or encumberence to search him for firearms or wait for him to draw and fire first; that'd be suicidal for the officers and disastrous for the public. Just assume that he had, as he'd proven to have, ready to use and used it in previous cases.

In street justice, there's a slang phrase for this, if you start shooting people (especially police), you should keep yourself armed at all times.

Please lah, your example is cock. The real reason they riddled this guy with 40 shots was purely revenge for the slaying of their brother officer. In this case you mentioned, the alleged killer was having morning coffee in a busy coffeeshop. Plains clothes officers quietly took seats in the tables around him. They claim he was going for a weapon and opened fire on him. Imagine if you are one of the innocent kopitiam patrons seating around or an employee, and all of a sudden all hell breaks lose and bullets are whizzing and richochetting by. This incident should have send warning signs to many sinkies who have half a brain, with questions like:
1) Where was this alleged killer's weapon. None found on him.
2) Why was he not apprehended, asked to give up, or arrested? Instead of an ambush style killing.
3) What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty? Since when did the citizens allow the SPF to be judge, jury, and executioner?

 

[singveld]

what a disgusting prc woman police, how can she shoot him like this. no difference as amercian police who shoot niggers.
she could just disable him, but she go for the kill.
disgusting country china is.

 

[Papsmearer]

You're right. It wasn't an arrest mission. It was an execution mission (or as you put it, a revenge mission). But it's completely legal. A fully legally documented and executed shoot-to-kill order and not risking him able to draw his revolver first. There's no legal requirement or encumberence to search him for firearms or wait for him to draw and fire first; that'd be suicidal for the officers and disastrous for the public. Just assume that he had, as he'd proven to have, ready to use and used it in previous cases.

In street justice, there's a slang phrase for this, if you start shooting people (especially police), you should keep yourself armed at all times.

Wow, another would be Dirty Harry in SB. I have some news for you. No cop in Sinkie land has a licence to kill. There is no such thing as a execution mission. There is definitely a legal requirement to affect an arrest of the suspect. Police officers can only use deadly force when they themselves or an innocent party is directly threatened with death. The use of deadly force by the police is a last resort. In this case, the police did not attempt an arrest. They did not ask him to put his hands up and give up. They did not see a weapon. They did not even ask him if he was the man they were looking for!. That is why we have a judicial process. For all everyone knew, this guy was the wrong guy, and the real killer is still at large.