The Ten Commandments

[Toronto]

The holy(?) bible condoned and promoted human slavery:

Genesis 24:35-36 God has blessed my master (Abraham) greatly; and he has become great (wealthy) and he (God) has given him (Abraham) flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and men-slaves, and maid-slaves, and camels, and asses.

 

[Psalm23]

The holy(?) bible condoned and promoted human slavery:

Genesis 24:35-36 God has blessed my master (Abraham) greatly; and he has become great (wealthy) and he (God) has given him (Abraham) flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and men-slaves, and maid-slaves, and camels, and asses.

Dear Toronto,

You have quoted only one part of the Old Testament text. In Exodus 21:2 God has established the laws that no servant shall serve for more than six years; the master must release his servants after six years 'of service'.

Just look at the current situations in this world, we have people working as maid and servants for almost their entire lives with no chance of being 'paroled'. They were helpless and many were mistreated by the masters. Many old Chinese movies can tell you how slaves and maids were treated from physical abuse to sexual abuse and tragically many committed suicides. Though they mighy just be movies but it could depart from the truth that such situations were very common in ancient China (and I believe in many other countries).

Yes....rich people want people to serve them (and poor people also want people to serve them!) but they have no right to abuse their servants or slaves and they have no rights to keep them as slaves indefinitely. If you really interested to know how slaves were treated just go and google for a great hymn writer John Newton and you can read many sad stories of the trade of buying and selling of slaves. John Newton who wrote one of the most popular hymns - the Amazing Grace - was one of these traders. Moved by the spirit of God, he turned 180 degree and became one of the main opponents of slave trade. It was he who instrumented the abolishing of the slave trade during his time because "he was once blind but now he sees". Are we all like him now: blind and if so when are we going to see and to let the spirit of God open our eyes and know the truth - the truth of understanding God's word in totality and now just one part and ignoring the other.

God's laws are always right. Period!

 

[Toronto]

“You have quoted only one part of the Old Testament text. In Exodus 21:2 God has established the laws that no servant shall serve for more than six years;”

Hi psalm23,
OK. The other part is rather racist, about how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated:

Exodus 21:2-6
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom.

 

[Toronto]

“The master must release his servants after six years 'of service'.”

“…they have no rights to keep them as slaves indefinitely.”

Let see how the other part of God’s laws, they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave.

Exodus 21:2-6
If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

After going one big round, you are still able to keep your slave indefinitely. How crafty is this law? This is very similar to the modern laws used by facist governments and some financial instruments(mini bonds) to exploit the peasants.

This is one of the many examples of the ‘Good’ biblical family values!

 

[Toronto]

Psalm23,
I am not sure you if you are well aware that the Catholic and other older Bibles - mostly use the words "slave" & "slaves" whereas the newer versions like KJV that you read on the Internet use the words "servant" & "servants".

Do take special note of this, as no church leader would like to enlighten the mass.

You too, have conspicuously trying to shift position by using ’maid’ and ‘servants’. So you are guilty of blind defending for the sake of defending.

 

[Toronto]

Psalm23,
I checked out John Newton, he was a slave ship master that took him a long time to speak out against the Slave Trade. At least I would consider a decent Christian that dares to stand up for humanity.

Do you have another similar example to share? This shall encourage human to move towards real goodness.

 

[Toronto]

Psalm23,
I hope you are open minded enough to at least listen out to me on the big different between slavery in ancient China and angmo land.

Below is a post I have made on this earlier for your conveniently reading (post no #30 in this thread):

"Yes, there are different forms of slavery in both world.

In ancient china, it was monarchy slavery. Slaves were deployed by emperors and nobles to build palace, great wall, etc.
However, the ancient chinese never practice trading and exchange of slaves at the social level. This form of slavery is the worst.

In europe, if you were rich commoner you can buy and keep slaves. The different is that slavery has never been encouraged or approved by any eastern religion doctrines unlike in the WEST.

When Lord Macartney, the first british envoy arrived in china he was very surprised and impressed at this humanic characteristic of the chinese because in his country slave trading is nothing unusal to cry about like today trading of stock. The layman chinese were astonished when they learned of it, it was unimaginable(unhamanictic) to them that a human can be bought or sought at the market place.

In a later stage, Lord Macartney bought Indian subjects that were enslaved under the british crown to FREE them. See how he was influenced and moved."

 

[Toronto]

“Just look at the current situations in this world, we have people working as maid and servants for almost their entire lives with no chance of being 'parole”

There is BIG different between being enslaved and working as maid and servant. To be Enslaved is non voluntary, to enslave is immoral. Good that you have some feeling for the unfortunates in our society.

Well, I don’t mind to be palm23's life-time personal servant if I can be paid 5 times what I am earning now.

 

[Toronto]

The Holy(?) Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

Such explicit details and codes on Slave Management there is no other religion books you can find them.

 

[Toronto]

- the truth of understanding God's word in totality and now just one part and ignoring the other.

God's laws are always right. Period!

Psalm23,
Do not ignore this particular verse from the bible:

Matthew 15:23-24
Jesus said he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Are you jewish? If not, you can hope to be saved. Period!

 

[Toronto]

It is immoral to treat a fellow human being(Oh yar, a pagan) like animal. Worst still, be motivated and endorsed by a religion which followers claimed they are saving lives!

 

[Toronto]

Sex Slave

Exodus 21:7-11
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

Hi Psalms23,
You claimed to believe in every words of the bible, not sure whether you are acceptable to the biblical law on trading your own daughter as sex slave?

 

[Toronto]

Hi Psalm23,
If is not your own daughter but the daughter of an Egyptian or Pagan, you answer would be obvious and easy. You would say 'it's part of God's grand plan' for sinful people.

When it comes to your own daughter, the answer is between you and your benevolent God. Remember, how Abraham was an example of faith in God?
Between God and your own child, what is your choice? We know Abraham's choice.

 

[Toronto]

Psalm23,
In twisting, toning down and moderating God's original Word, you have DEFAMED the name and teaching of the benovelent God according to Ephesians 6:5.


Ephesians 6:5
Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed.


Declaimer: I am just pointing out the verses in the Holy(?) Bible and giving opinions, ultimately it is your God that will make judgement.

 

[Toronto]

Psalm23,

You have also violated the 9th of the Ten Commandments: "You shall not bear false witness (against your neighbor)"

I am your fellow neighbor in the neighbourhood of Sammyboy Forum. I am your also fellow country man of SinkieLand, so it is clear beyond doubt that I am your neighbor.

You are false witness to God because you testified against God's Words. Adulterating!

What is the punishment?

Answer: The punishment for violating some of the commandments is death.

Declaimer: I am just pointing out the laws and doctrines of the Holy(?) Bible, ultimately it is your co-religionists and God that throw stones or judgement.

 

[Psalm23]

Let see how the other part of God’s laws, they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave.

Exodus 21:2-6
If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

After going one big round, you are still able to keep your slave indefinitely. How crafty is this law? This is very similar to the modern laws used by facist governments and some financial instruments(mini bonds) to exploit the peasants.

This is one of the many examples of the ‘Good’ biblical family values!

Slavery in ancient OT time was very different from what we understood today. We are conditioned by the mass media and the infamous historical event relating 'Black Slavery' have conditioned us to believe all slavery are bad. In ancient biblical time, it was quite a different thing. Yes, they needd to work for the masters but in much more humane conditions then what we all have misunderstood about slavery. As we can read, some masters even bought wives from their slaves (who undoutedly got to work for the master but not the way we understood by 'slaves' are made to do). Bible is full of historical account. It is not a book of legends or myths.

By way of illustration, many of us - including professionals like accountants, engineers, etc are slaves. They work, work, work and more work. Often many of these busy professionals could hardly see their children during week days, and hopefully they could really see their parents during weekends. It is common for parents to leave home while the children are still sleeping and by the time they get home, their children are already on the bed. The domestic helpers have taken the place of primary guidance and parental care is now secondary.

Having said all these, you have to read in the right context and you must go to the historical background in order to understand the true meaning. We must refraining from quoting one verse here, one verse their and start lambasted at the Holy word of God.

Whether I have called the name of God in vain or not is not for you to decide. God decides and I am prepared to face whatever judgment from God. Question: Are you prepared? Furthermore, we all have broken all the commandments (all means including me) and our eternal destination is eternal separation from God. Are you prepared for this eternal separation? Thankfully, as believers of Jesus, His redeeming blood, His finished work on the cross, Jesus has taken our place. Are you willimg to let Jesus take your place of condemnation? If you are not prepared, your destination can be worse than the worst slaves that the world has ever come across. But if you are willing to let Jesus take you place of condemnation, you can live eternally like prince (or princess) in the heaven home that God has prepared for His true believers.

Psalm23

 

[Conqueror]

The Spiritual Things For Our Daily Walk

Slavery in ancient OT time was very different from what we understood today.

The domestic helpers have taken the place of primary guidance and parental care is now secondary.

Spiritual things being spiritual while the earthly things being earthly. We speak of the heavenly things in mystery too.


John 3:31 "The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.


If one sins against the law of God, then one will have to be yoked and not be free (punishment like bad karma). The flesh will suffer. Yes, 'bad lucks' will come. Then, don't blame God for your trespasses if evil befalls on you.


John 8:34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.


My daily walk with God may not be that simple too. Do I fear sins ? I don't ! I'm already 身经百战。I'm a man of war like those in the Old Testament.

 

[POSTMAN]

Re: The Spiritual Things For Our Daily Walk

Of all the books, the book of Psalms is the most encouraging in the bible. Read it daily and you get a high.

 

[Toronto]

Yes....rich people want people to serve them (and poor people also want people to serve them!) but they have no right to abuse their servants or slaves and they have no rights to keep them as slaves indefinitely.

How would you explain on God's laws to allow slaves to be kept indefinitely by slave masters?

 

[Toronto]

“Slavery in ancient OT time was very different from what we understood today.”

People in the modern asian world would perceived slavery as forced labor. It would be unimaginable to most of them that in biblical time and up to the late 19th century (or perhaps 20th century), slavery in the Christian world means trading of Human lives like animals and commodities in the common market places. And supported by a religion guide on Slave Management.