The shocking truth about HAMAS!

[3_M]

u r right. israel is always the victim. a victim who plays the evil role of the big time neighbourhood bully to justify its victimhood by killing his neighbours -women and children with superior and massive weapons of destruction.this is done repeatedly with the blessings from the great satan and less great satans.

Lets face it, life is never fair.

Let us move on.

 

[theblackhole]

who is the world's number one terrorist?

 

[3_M]

who is the world's number one terrorist?

Difficult to say.

Many Muslims are competing for the pole position.

 

[theblackhole]

Lets face it, life is never fair.

Let us move on.

u r right...let us move on. the blood had been shed.it'll take generations and generations to seek revenge. the hatred that runs inside the veins and embedded in the genes will lead to further escalation of war, conflicts and violence. every palestine child who had been orphaned or who had seen the brutal killing and massacre of their parents and loved ones ...and who had witnessed the evil destruction of their homes and neighbourhoods,their friends and their relatives will have hatred and revenge programmed in their minds and in their genes...a day will come when israel will have to pay for the destruction they had so mindlessly brought upon the people...

and now every gazan is a threat and an enemy...every child will grow to hate the israelis...this hatred will be there for generations to come...israel will have to face this almost for the rest of its existence...bloodshed,massacres and killings will continue on both sides with greater intensity and with more massive destruction and with more powerful and deadly weapons of mass destruction...it'll be doomsday in middle-east. the hatred for each other will never end...until one or both of them are buried under the sands in the barren deserts....

god is amazing....the chess board has been created and the scene set in stones! god is truly amazing...

 

[theblackhole]

Difficult to say.

Many Muslims are competing for the pole position.

why must the terrorists be muslims? come on....you know as well as many of us know the most powerful terrorist on earth....

 

[3_M]

why must the terrorists be muslims? come on....you know as well as many of us know the most powerful terrorist on earth....

Osama bin Laden ?

 

[The_Latest_H]

"democratically" elected or not, they are still terrorist.

Israel is not obligated to have a relationship with elected leaders whose policies and views are dangerous.

Adolf Hitler was elected by the German, but few people would suggest today that the rest of the world should have ignored his genocidal views and treated him as an equal just because he emerged from a democratic process. Saddam Hussien was also democratically elected and who would suggest the world talk to him when he invaded Kuwait?

As usual, if fail all logical argument, go back to the Hitler argument..isn't that what neo-cons do all the time?

Then how about Reagan meeting up with the Soviet President in the 80s...is that appeasement?

In the end though, the comparisons between Hamas and other dictators are weak. People also forget that when the Oslo process was going on in the 90s, PLO, now Fatah, was also considered a terrorist-cum-political organisation.

The ANC, South Africa's current ruling party was also like Hamas, with a military wing, in addition to a political side. They had such a situation from the 50s till the early 90s, until Mandela negotiated with Klerk in a series of talks.

The difference between an insurgency movement, against what is a political idea, and what is a Nazi regime is vast and big, and as such, you cannot muddle up Nazism, and what is an insurgency campaign by a party which has two sides against an idea that they deem as offensive.

I mean, I didn't say I like Hamas in the first place. I even didn't want to see them being elected in 2006. But now that the situation has shifted, Hamas being the legitimate elected party has been part of the party in the talks for the two state process. We have to recognise the situation has changed, and thus we have to work within current realities.

The fantasy that says that everyone else can work to create a Palestine state and Israel side by side while ignoring Gaza is just ignorant and disrespectful of the Palestinians who live in Gaza.

 

[3_M]

As usual, if fail all logical argument, go back to the Hitler argument..isn't that what neo-cons do all the time?

Then how about Reagan meeting up with the Soviet President in the 80s...is that appeasement?

In the end though, the comparisons between Hamas and other dictators are weak. People also forget that when the Oslo process was going on in the 90s, PLO, now Fatah, was also considered a terrorist-cum-political organisation.

The ANC, South Africa's current ruling party was also like Hamas, with a military wing, in addition to a political side. The difference between an insurgency movement, against what is a political idea, and what is a Nazi regime is vast and big, and as such, you cannot muddle up Nazism, and what is an insurgency campaign by a party which has two sides against an idea that they deem as offensive.

I mean, I didn't say I like Hamas in the first place. I even didn't want to see them being elected in 2006. But now that the situation has shifted, Hamas being the legitimate elected party has been part of the party in the talks for the two state process. We have to recognise the situation has changed, and thus we have to work within current realities.

The fantasy that says that everyone else can work to create a Palestine state and Israel side by side while ignoring Gaza is just ignorant and disrespectful of the Palestinians who live in Gaza.

When PLO signed the Oslo accord they agreed to renounce the used of violence, recognise Israel and dismantle all terrorist organisations including HAMAS.

Hamas is recognized throughout the world as a terrorist organisation. Since the election, Hamas leaders have reaffirmed their commitment to the Hamas covenant calling for destruction of Israel and made clear it they have no intention of disarming.

Why should Israel talk to them? you must be nut.

 

[theblackhole]

Osama bin Laden ?

i don't think so...osama is the creation of the great satan...and he is being used as the scapegoat for many terrorist acts perpetuated by the world's number one satan.

i think we should ask the amazing god...who is the world's greatest terrorist with the most terrorist acts and destruction on earth.

 

[The_Latest_H]

When PLO signed the Oslo accord they agreed to renounce the used of violence, recognise Israel and dismantle all terrorist organisations including HAMAS.

Hamas is recognized throughout the world as a terrorist organisation. Since the election, Hamas leaders have reaffirmed their commitment to the Hamas covenant calling for destruction of Israel and made clear it they have no intention of disarming.

Why should Israel talk to them? you must be nut.

In that case, so is the ANC. But PLO wouldn't have done all three if the West didn't start negotiating with them.

In the end, you're asking a chicken-and-egg question. You demand that they do all 3 before you can talk to them. But until you talk to them, they won't do all 3.

So which one do you want? The chicken or the egg?

 

[3_M]

In that case, so is the ANC. But PLO wouldn't have done all three if the West didn't start negotiating with them.

In the end, you're asking a chicken-and-egg question. You demand that they do all 3 before you can talk to them. But until you talk to them, they won't do all 3.

So which one do you want? The chicken or the egg?

The fact you mention chicken and egg issue reflects very well the lack of common sense.

you never point a gun at me when you talk.

 

[rodent2005]

The also shocking fact, Sam, is that Hamas is the ruling party in Palestine because it won a plural majority in the 2006 year end parliamentary elections that the US wanted Abbas to hold.

It doesn't matter whether Hamas is the ruling party or not because Israel attacked Hamas not because it wants to remove the government of the Palestinians but because Hamas committed terror acts against Israel.

Why the Nazi was the government of Germany too.

But that will not remove the right of any country to self-defence should it be attacked.

Besides what is it so difficult for the Hamas to understand to stop firing rockets into Israel? What is there to talk about if they keep on doing this?

 

[guy2100]

The deadly consequences of the games that Israel plays
Michael Shaik
January 1, 2009
"Hamas has broken the ceasefire and engaged in an act of aggression against Israel. Israel has responded."— Julia Gillard


ACTING Prime Minister Julia Gillard's statement to the media has an undeniable logic, which was elaborated by Fania Oz-Salzberger on this page in yesterday's Age.

The firing of rockets into Israel, Oz-Salzberger argues, is an unprovoked act of aggression that requires a response. While Israelis may regret the dreadful necessity of the unfolding slaughter in Gaza, they are, in fact, the victims of a cynical Hamas ploy that deliberately "pitches infantry among infants and babies among barricades".

In the 18th century, Voltaire noted that "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". To understand Israel's offensive, therefore, one must examine how the foregoing narrative fits with reality.

The Gaza Strip is the most crowded area in the world today, with 1.5 million Palestinians — most of whom are refugees banned from returning to their homes in Israel — eking out an existence in a walled-in holding pen on the edge of the Mediterranean. In 2000, the World Health Organisation reported that Gaza's water supply, which is being depleted by Israel's diversion of its artesian waters, was no longer fit for human consumption.

In 2005 Israel "disengaged" from the Gaza Strip by withdrawing 8000 of its settlers. According to the architect of the disengagement, Ariel Sharon, its purpose was to consolidate Israel's settlements in the West Bank.

When Hamas won the Palestinian elections in 2006, Israeli officials declared their intention to punish the Palestinians by putting them on a "diet". The diet was intensified in 2007, following the seizure of power in Gaza by Hamas. Imports and exports were suspended and the supply of food, medicine, electricity and fuel has been alternately reduced to a trickle or cut off altogether.

The result, according to the UN Relief and Works Agency, is that Gaza has become "the first territory to be intentionally reduced to a state of abject destitution, with the knowledge, acquiescence and — some would say — encouragement of the international community".

Israel's premise in imposing its diet on the people of Gaza was that they would turn against Hamas when they realised how much worse off they were than their compatriots in the West Bank. Over the past year, this assumption has been utterly discredited.

Since the Annapolis peace summit of November 2007, Israeli settlement construction has accelerated markedly throughout the West Bank and exponentially in Palestinian East Jerusalem. While Fatah's "security forces" have co-operated with Israel in liquidating Palestinian resistance cells, they have no control over the checkpoints that regulate Palestinian life in the West Bank and are powerless to protect their people from attacks by Israeli soldiers and settlers.

But in Gaza, where the Hamas party has refused to unilaterally renounce the armed struggle, Israel agreed to a ceasefire based on a rough balance of terror. Though hungry and cold, Gaza's people have until recently enjoyed a security that West Bank Palestinians can only dream about.

On November 4, the ceasefire was shattered by the Israeli Army when it crossed into Gaza to destroy a tunnel and kill six Palestinian militants, calculating (correctly) that the international media would be too focused on America's presidential election to properly cover the attack.

Its motives for breaking the ceasefire and the recent escalation of its attacks on Gaza are probably due to a number of factors. The first is its wish to restore what Israelis euphemistically call its "deterrence credibility".

Israel's generals are known to have felt deeply humiliated by the ceasefire. By seeking a decisive victory over Hamas they hope to re-establish Israel's military prestige as the region's mini-superpower.

The second is attributable to domestic political factors. Decisive action against recalcitrant Arabs has always played well with the Israeli public. With an election looming and the opposition Likud party leading in the polls, the Israeli Government's demonstrated willingness to punish Hamas regardless of civilian casualties has, as Oz-Salzberger notes, turned the tables on Likud "in a uniquely Israeli way".

The final reason is probably the most obvious but needs to be emphasised: Israel is counting on its supporters around the world to "contextualise" the offensive.

While impossible to disprove, Oz-Salzberger's assertion that Israel's attempts to "surgically strike" military targets are being frustrated by Hamas' strategy of deliberately putting Palestinian children in harm's way is contradicted by a broad consensus of reports by human rights organisations, which have consistently reported instances of Palestinian civilians being killed by excessive lethal force, while failing to discover a single case of Palestinian militants using children as human shields.

Israel's decision to launch its surprise attack at 11.30 on Saturday morning when Palestinian children throughout Gaza would be leaving their morning classes or on their way to afternoon classes is also more consistent with its policy of punishing Gaza's civilian population than with a strategy of surgical strikes.

Julia Gillard's parroting of Israel's falsification of the historical record and blithe endorsement of Israel's horrendous attacks on the Gaza Strip raise some troubling questions regarding the Australian Government's policy orientation in the Middle East.

What possible national interests, one might wonder, are being served when the Australian Government so readily sacrifices our international reputation to curry favour with the Australian Israel lobby?

Michael Shaik is the public advocate for Australians for Palestine.

 

[Leongsam]

Julia Gillard's parroting of Israel's falsification of the historical record and blithe endorsement of Israel's horrendous attacks on the Gaza Strip raise some troubling questions

The Israelis should wait for favourable wind conditions and then try using some good old fashioned Mustard Gas! It worked great in WW1.

 

[peasantJUDGE]

Hamas moves on Fatah 'collaborators'

Jan. 4, 2009
Khaled Abu Toameh , THE JERUSALEM POST
The Hamas government has placed dozens of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they might exploit the current IDF operation to regain control of the Gaza Strip.

The move came amid reports that the Fatah leadership in the West Bank has instructed its followers to be ready to assume power over the Gaza Strip when and if Israel's military operation results in the removal of Hamas rule.

Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken.

Wisam Abu Jalhoum, a Fatah activist from the Jabalya refugee camp, was shot in the legs by Hamas militiamen for allegedly expressing joy over the IDF air strikes on Hamas targets.

"Hamas is very nervous, because they feel that their end is nearing," a senior Fatah official said. "They have been waging a brutal campaign against Fatah members in the Gaza Strip."

Meanwhile, sources close to Hamas revealed over the weekend that the movement had "executed" more than 35 Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were being held in various Hamas security installations.

The sources quoted Hamas officials as saying that the decision to kill the suspected collaborators was taken out of fear that Israel might try to rescue them during a ground offensive. The officials claimed that at least half of the victims were killed by relatives of Palestinian militiamen who were killed as a result of information passed on to Israel by the "collaborators."

Justifying the latest crackdown on Fatah, a Hamas official in Gaza City said that his government had received information according to which Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas had instructed his loyalists in the Strip to start moving toward undermining Hamas.

"We will kill them all if they try to help Israel bring down our government," the official said. "We will hang Mahmoud Abbas and [former Fatah security chief] Muhammad Dahlan in the public square if they try to enter the Gaza Strip aboard Israeli tanks."

The Hamas official said that his security forces had launched a massive "preemptive" campaign aimed at thwarting Fatah's attempts to "spread anarchy and chaos." He confirmed that many Fatah operatives had been shot in the legs over the past few days by Hamas "to make sure that they don't help Israel."

Fahmi Za'arir, a Fatah spokesman in the West Bank, accused Hamas of "executing" a number of Fatah detainees. He said the Fatah leadership knew of at least two Fatah men who were shot dead by Hamas after being released from prison. He named them as Nasser Muhana and Saher al-Silawi.

Za'arir said that several Fatah members who attended funerals of victims of the IAF strikes were severely beaten by Hamas militiamen who accused them of collaboration with Israel.

It was "shameful" that Hamas was directing its weapons and energies against its own people instead of fighting against Israel, the spokesman said.

The decision to place Fatah operatives under house arrest was issued by the much-feared "Internal Security Apparatus," which reports to the Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry in Gaza.

The order, which was delivered to the Fatah activists on Thursday, reads: "You are forbidden from leaving your home for 48 hours unless you want to attend Friday prayers. Anyone who violates the order will be punished."

 

[The_Latest_H]

It doesn't matter whether Hamas is the ruling party or not because Israel attacked Hamas not because it wants to remove the government of the Palestinians but because Hamas committed terror acts against Israel.

Why the Nazi was the government of Germany too.

But that will not remove the right of any country to self-defence should it be attacked.

Besides what is it so difficult for the Hamas to understand to stop firing rockets into Israel? What is there to talk about if they keep on doing this?

Like I said, self defence is only self defence when you attack back and kill numbers that is equal to the numbers you have lost.

But when you kill 300-400 people in return for what is a loss in single digits, that's not self defence. That's a counter offensive that is targeting women and children.

As I said before, I'm not defending Hamas. I don't even like Hamas in the first place. I only said this war has to end, because it is killing innocent civilians on both sides, and because this war only complicates the fight against extremism in Afghanistan and around the world.

Don't forget that the unity of the ME governments and people are needed if we want to have a grand coalition to fight Osama Bin Laden, and Al-Qaeda. And that includes Iran, who has supplied Hamas and Hezbollah. We need all of them, no exceptions.

That's why we have to work within current paradigms, and recognise that while Hamas is not a friendly party, until we stop isolating them, there's no way that Hamas would consider moderating itself by itself. This also means that we have to recognise the fact that to compare Hamas to Nazism is itself an overblown idea in the first place. The reasons are obvious; do your history homework properly and you'll understand why I state this in the first place.

 

[The_Latest_H]

The fact you mention chicken and egg issue reflects very well the lack of common sense.

you never point a gun at me when you talk.

I didn't. I'm not pointing a gun at you. I'm asking you to re-read your history. But if you don't want, then there's nothing I can do for you. And that's fine if you wanna stick to your views and don't reconsider.

 

[chuckyworld]

>>

Like I said, self defence is only self defence when you attack back and kill numbers that is equal to the numbers you have lost.<<

In war when you attack back in self defence as you put it do you ask your enemy to choose equal # of those kill by them and ask their peoples to line up and be shot by you? is there such type of war throughout history where you only kill equal # you have lost, please show me which period and where in history of man warfare has it happen.

.

<<

Do you work with someone that has VOW to destroy you and wipe you off from the face of the world, why can they work with Fatah and not Hamas, why can they the Israelis have peace with Egypt, as long as there are parties like Hamas that are bend on wiping Israel from the face of the earth there will never be peace ih that part of the world, you should ask the President of Iran he is the loudest in wanting Israel or jew to be wipe off period.

You also need to understand, why Muslim the peace loving type would never come out and protest in large # against suicide bombers after all they are of the same religion Islam, they have to support their own even if they know it is wrong it is written in their Koran.

 

[3_M]

I didn't. I'm not pointing a gun at you. I'm asking you to re-read your history. But if you don't want, then there's nothing I can do for you. And that's fine if you wanna stick to your views and don't reconsider.

You are so clever. DOn't even understand the point I am trying to bring across.

WHy don't you ask the next US president to negotiate with Osama?

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

They have already took part. Hamas used to be purely a guerilla organisation, but with a political wing, they are also part of the political process, especially once they won the 2006 elections fairly.

So in the end, whether one likes it or not, Hamas is part of the process, a party that has to be recognised as an entity and be part of any negotiation process for 2 states side by side. And certainly you won't succeed inducing them into talks by bombing them.

After all, if Israel is dragged into a street fight, it would become a Stalingrad. And if anyone knows their history, Nazi Germany had superior weapons and numbers going in, but Russians had street fighting experience, and the tenacious character, and eventually the one with the superior weapons and numbers lost.

U mean in this street fight israel is like stalingrad? Aren't hamas ppl invading israel? I am sure u mean nazi = israel hamas = russians but ur anlogy doesn't add up here.