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The #RidoutGate Mega-Thread!

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Snake Shan n the ah neh with a women's name are damn hated because of their arrogance n inflated ego....it's no wonder the knives are out. If it weren't them being Pinky's pets... That would have been thrown to the wolves long ago... Anyway wat goes around comes around
I supposed that we can learn from this incident, not to be arrogant, and try not to continuously claim "I am humbled ...."
There are several who have been arrogant or are still arrogant.
One gentleman, who was a CO in reservist and was wuthdrawn as a candidate in the previous election. I hope that the PAP does not field that man in the forthcoming GE.
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
I supposed that we can learn from this incident, not to be arrogant, and try not to continuously claim "I am humbled ...."
There are several who have been arrogant or are still arrogant.
One gentleman, who was a CO in reservist and was wuthdrawn as a candidate in the previous election. I hope that the PAP does not field that man in the forthcoming GE.
It would be better to claim which pap mp etc is humble....
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
I supposed that we can learn from this incident, not to be arrogant, and try not to continuously claim "I am humbled ...."
There are several who have been arrogant or are still arrogant.
One gentleman, who was a CO in reservist and was wuthdrawn as a candidate in the previous election. I hope that the PAP does not field that man in the forthcoming GE.
U are referring to last minute withdrawn candidate Ivan Lim.Heard he is doing his walkabout,he may be fielded in Jurong GRC next GE.
 

Balls2U

Alfrescian
Loyal
It is very unfortunate for Jothie Rajah.

Jothie-Rajah-scaled-e1680725514709-360x360.jpg


Jothie Rajah (Shamu's ex-wife)

Kasinather_Saunthararajah.jpg


K S Rajah (Shamu's ex-father in law)
 

MaximiLian

Alfrescian
Loyal
our dear honorable minister like sibeh cham. need 2 top up 2 rent bmw bugalow. anyone starting a crowdfunding? :unsure:
 

LexLuthor

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think TCH made a very a good point when he tried to explain the concept of conflict of interests - that many in the Parliament are lawyers and he is not. So why NOT get the CJ or a retired High Court Judge to explain ?

In essence, according to TCH (and later Mambo), two elements have to be present - duty and interest. If one of them is missing, there is no conflict of interests. The recusal removes the element of "duty", and therefore there is no conflict of interests, actual, potential and perceived.

The Ministerial Code is NOT a law, but if our Courts are required to explain the concept of conflict of interests, can we rely on TCH's layman explanation backed by Mambo who is the subject of the review ? If it's not a legal precedent, then what value does it hold ?

Potential Conflict of Interests

The need to recuse oneself from the decision-making implies that a potential conflict of interests is present (or has already arisen). Whether or not the recusal is able to negate the (potential) conflict of interests is another matter, but we can all agree that at that point of time there was already a potential conflict of interests without which a recusal would not have been necessary.

If one really wants to adhere to both the letter and the spirit of the Ministerial Code (and not just the spirit but not the letter), as soon as a potential conflict of interests arises, the prudent person will avoid the transaction altogether. The recusal cures any actual conflict of interests when the transaction is carried through, but it does not prevent the potential conflict of interests from arising. Ironically, it's because a potential conflict of interests arises that you need to recuse yourself.

When you visit Mandai Zoo, you are told NOT to climb over the fence where the tiger is crouching. If you climb over the fence, the tiger might or might NOT attack you. So if you climb over the fence, the potential of being attacked by the tiger arises immediately. What do you do ? You climb over the fence with a gun and two snipers behind your back ? Will that negate the potential of being attacked ? Of course not. It will only ensure that if you are attacked you will still be protected. The prudent way is to avoid climbing over the fence.

Perceived Conflict of Interests

This is even easier to understand. It has absolutely nothing to do with recusal or not. The need to have a Ministerial Review and devote 5 hours worth of Parliamentary session is SOLID EVIDENCE that there is a perceived conflict of interests. Otherwise, what is the Ministerial Review for if there is NO perceived conflict of interests ? Isn't the objective of the Ministerial Review to dispel negative public perception ?
 
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borom

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
..............So why NOT get the CJ or a retired High Court Judge to explain ?........

Potential Conflict of Interests

The need to recuse oneself from the decision-making implies that a potential conflict of interests is present (or has already arisen). ..........
If one really wants to adhere to both the letter and the spirit of the Ministerial Code (and not just the spirit but not the letter), as soon as a potential conflict of interests arises, the prudent person will avoid the transaction altogether. ............

Perceived Conflict of Interests

..........The need to have a Ministerial Review and devote 5 hours worth of Parliamentary session is SOLID EVIDENCE that there is a perceived conflict of interests. Otherwise, what is the Ministerial Review for if there is NO perceived conflict of interests ? Isn't the objective of the Ministerial Review to dispel negative public perception ?
I agree with your well written and cogent arguments .
I dare say that had the father been around, would Shan and Vivian gone ahead with renting Ridout residences knowing its way more opulent than LKY's own house?
This snake and mosquitoes thing as a reason to include such a big land area for Shan's house is perplexing to me as I am neither a lawyer or property manager.
Can't the NEA or NParks take care of it? What is their annual budget?
This sets a precedent whereby anyone who stays next to a forested area can get it included in his lease if he agrees to maintain it on behalf of the govt.
 

CoffeeAhSoh

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think TCH made a very a good point when he tried to explain the concept of conflict of interests - that many in the Parliament are lawyers and he is not. So why NOT get the CJ or a retired High Court Judge to explain ?

In essence, according to TCH (and later Mambo), two elements have to be present - duty and interest. If one of them is missing, there is no conflict of interests. The recusal removes the element of "duty", and therefore there is no conflict of interests, actual, potential and perceived.

The Ministerial Code is NOT a law, but if our Courts are required to explain the concept of conflict of interests, can we rely on TCH's layman explanation backed by Mambo who is the subject of the review ? If it's not a legal precedent, then what value does it hold ?

Potential Conflict of Interests

The need to recuse oneself from the decision-making implies that a potential conflict of interests is present (or has already arisen). Whether or not the recusal is able to negate the (potential) conflict of interests is another matter, but we can all agree that at that point of time there was already a potential conflict of interests without which a recusal would not have been necessary.

If one really wants to adhere to both the letter and the spirit of the Ministerial Code (and not just the spirit but not the letter), as soon as a potential conflict of interests arises, the prudent person will avoid the transaction altogether. The recusal cures any actual conflict of interests when the transaction is carried through, but it does not prevent the potential conflict of interests from arising. Ironically, it's because a potential conflict of interests arises that you need to recuse yourself.

When you visit Mandai Zoo, you are told NOT to climb over the fence where the tiger is crouching. If you climb over the fence, the tiger might or might NOT attack you. So if you climb over the fence, the potential of being attacked by the tiger arises immediately. What do you do ? You climb over the fence with a gun and two snipers behind your back ? Will that negate the potential of being attacked ? Of course not. It will only ensure that if you are attacked you will still be protected. The prudent way is to avoid climbing over the fence.

Perceived Conflict of Interests

This is even easier to understand. It has absolutely nothing to do with recusal or not. The need to have a Ministerial Review and devote 5 hours worth of Parliamentary session is SOLID EVIDENCE that there is a perceived conflict of interests. Otherwise, what is the Ministerial Review for if there is NO perceived conflict of interests ? Isn't the objective of the Ministerial Review to dispel negative public perception ?

me give TCH A+
 

Hightech88

Alfrescian
Loyal
When you visit Mandai Zoo, you are told NOT to climb over the fence where the tiger is crouching. If you climb over the fence, the tiger might or might NOT attack you. So if you climb over the fence, the potential of being attacked by the tiger arises immediately. What do you do ? You climb over the fence with a gun and two snipers behind your back ? Will that negate the potential of being attacked ? Of course not. It will only ensure that if you are attacked you will still be protected. The prudent way is to avoid climbing over the fence.
Problem is, both ministers willfully climbed over the fence to test the system, knowing that they will have the full support of the PM and the full PAP machinery esp. Shanmugam, when SLA is also under his ministry.

The one and only way for PAP to learn is when both ministers lose their seats in next GE. Next, PAP will suddenly wake up and do a review. Confirm they will turn 180 degrees around to change the Ministers Code of Conduct framework and even make it strictly forbidden for any ministers to rent or get involved in any Gov property transactions/dealings with potential conflict of interest.

Simply because such removal of 'chain of command' is completely useless as it will still have influence over the outcome as the ministries are under him. In fact, any Gov ministers will still fall under this scenario as they are VVIP status, hence preferential treatment will invariably be given in some ways or another the moment their identity is revealed, regardless of whether they seem to have followed the proper procedures. This is just basic human psychology. Worse thing to happen is such preferential treatment are made in such a way as to appear legal to circumvent the system and even the CPIB or ISD, LOL.

One of the most glaring part in this case on how SLA appear to circumvent the system is to fence up and allow the whole freaking adjacent land, which is more than twice his original boundary to be included as part of his rental property under the guise of Shan's willingness to offer to maintain this huge plot of land, LOL. Damn shiok, for nothing rental increased by only $2K but effectively can have the land fenced up like living in a palace, LOL.

uHeknrZ.jpg

f8pB6Sq.jpg
 
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