The Quran and Hadith teach about expanding Islam using violence

[Loofydralb]

"See signs of betrayal" is from the english translation you quoted. Nevermind, I will do some research on this verse and come back. akan datang.

Same methodological mistakes you christians did on translating the bible.

 

[duluxe]

I have explained how it is meant to be understood in arabic but if you so choose to believe in your own interpretation, it's your choice.

The translation is quoted by you, the onus is on you to prove you have quoted the wrong translation and yet told me and those people reading it that it is a better translation.

 

[Loofydralb]

The translation is quoted by you, the onus is on you to prove you have quoted the wrong translation and yet told me and those people reading it that it is a better translation.

The translations are by native Arab speakers in collaboration with English speakers.

To listen to a chink trying to translate it is an insult itself.

 

[duluxe]

The translations are by native Arab speakers in collaboration with English speakers.

To listen to a chink trying to translate it is an insult itself.

"See signs of betrayal" is the translation you quoted and told us it is a better translation.

In case you forgotten what you wrote, I reproduced here. (An addition by me: The rest of the verse shows very clearly allah is very vengeful)

Loofy:
Here is a better translation.
Quran 8:59-60

"And if you ˹O Prophet˺ see signs of betrayal by a people, respond by openly terminating your treaty with them. Surely Allah does not like those who betray.
Do not let those disbelievers think they are not within reach. They will have no escape."

 

[duluxe]

Quran 8:59-60

"And if you ˹O Prophet˺ see signs of betrayal by a people, respond by openly terminating your treaty with them. Surely Allah does not like those who betray.
Do not let those disbelievers think they are not within reach. They will have no escape."

@JohnTan @syed putra How is your understanding the phrase "see signs of betrayal"?

 

[JohnTan]

Quran 8:59-60

"And if you ˹O Prophet˺ see signs of betrayal by a people, respond by openly terminating your treaty with them. Surely Allah does not like those who betray.
Do not let those disbelievers think they are not within reach. They will have no escape."

@JohnTan @syed putra How is your understanding the phrase "see signs of betrayal"?

allah has often taught moslems to violate their ceasefires. It's called taqiyya.

 

[duluxe]

allah has often taught moslems to violate their ceasefires. It's called taqiyya.

As long as muslims suspect or 'fear' there is betrayal, allah permitted them to OPENLY violate their treaty with the kaafirs. Meaning muslims are permitted to resort to violence, even when no violation actually happened, just suspect or fear is enough. haha.

 

[JohnTan]

As long as muslims suspect or 'fear' there is betrayal, allah permitted them to OPENLY violate their treaty with the kaafirs. Meaning muslims are permitted to resort to violence, even when no violation actually happened, just suspect or fear is enough. haha.

Ah Gong, when alive, never trusted moslems. Their religion permits them to break oaths without fear of reputation loss amongst fellow moslems. Deceit is a pillar of islam when even the sole moslem prophet cooked up lame excuse to break his own islamic laws.

 

[duluxe]

Ah Gong, when alive, never trusted moslems. Their religion permits them to break oaths without fear of reputation loss amongst fellow moslems. Deceit is a pillar of islam when even the sole moslem prophet cooked up lame excuse to break his own islamic laws.

Ah Gong was not a muslim or ex-muslim, so how he understood the core values of islam very deeply. Only a few muslims with high clearance are permitted to handle big guns (artillery) and drive armours.

 

[JohnTan]

Ah Gong was not a muslim or ex-muslim, so how he understood the core values of islam very deeply. Only a few muslims with high clearance are permitted to handle big guns (artillery) and drive armours.

Ah Gong was a top scholar. And he survived the numerous change of governments in Singapore from the 1940s through the 1960s. That made him wiser and more pragmatic in dealing with various interests, religious groups and political parties.

 

[duluxe]

.
.

.
.
.

No such thing as moderate muslim. There are pious and non-pious muslims.

 

[duluxe]

Quran 8:59-60:

The non-muslims refused Muhammad's new requirement that they recognize him as a prophet and they were robbed of their tools and property and were evicted by Muhammed. Muslims were NOT fighting in self-defense.

 

[duluxe]

Quran 8:59-60 DEBUNKED!

 

[duluxe]

Quran 9:5:
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

@Loofydralb next verse for you to clarify and defend and deny

 

[Loofydralb]

Quran 9:5:
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

@Loofydralb next verse for you to clarify and defend and deny

Again context! Context!

Quran verse 9:4
"As for the polytheists who have honoured every term of their treaty with you and have not supported an enemy against you, honour your treaty with them until the end of its term. Surely Allah loves those who are mindful ˹of Him˺."

That means Muslims must keep the truce they have agreed with the polytheists, when they have kept their side of the deal.

The Quran 9:5
"But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists ˹who violated their treaties˺ wherever you find them,1 capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Here Allah gives Muslims the permission for Muslims to only fight the polytheists who broke the deal, killing Muslims, raiding Muslim caravans etc, and to do it outside the Sacred Months.

Next comes the best part in Quran 9:6
"And if anyone from the polytheists asks for your protection ˹O Prophet˺, grant it to them so they may hear the Word of Allah, then escort them to a place of safety, for they are a people who have no knowledge."

So what is the issue you have here?

 

[Loofydralb]

Quran 8:59-60 DEBUNKED!

No you didn't debunked it.

Your assertions was just signs/suspicions/beliefs is sufficient of actions.

In Quran 49:12
"O believers! Avoid many suspicions, ˹for˺ indeed, some suspicions are sinful. And do not spy, nor backbite one another. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of their dead brother? You would despise that!1 And fear Allah. Surely Allah is ˹the˺ Accepter of Repentance, Most Merciful."

We are told not to have suspicions.

 

[duluxe]

No you didn't debunked it.

Your assertions was just signs/suspicions/beliefs is sufficient of actions.

In Quran 49:12
"O believers! Avoid many suspicions, ˹for˺ indeed, some suspicions are sinful. And do not spy, nor backbite one another. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of their dead brother? You would despise that!1 And fear Allah. Surely Allah is ˹the˺ Accepter of Repentance, Most Merciful."

We are told not to have suspicions.

Not my assertion, it is from the translation you quoted and so must be trustworthable.

This is one only case where 1 verse contradicted another. When there is a contradiction, I would go for the verse that most muslims put into practice. For example, the slit the throat verse. And when muslims put into practice, they don't follow the context you said.

 

[duluxe]

Again context! Context!

Quran verse 9:4
"As for the polytheists who have honoured every term of their treaty with you and have not supported an enemy against you, honour your treaty with them until the end of its term. Surely Allah loves those who are mindful ˹of Him˺."

That means Muslims must keep the truce they have agreed with the polytheists, when they have kept their side of the deal.

The Quran 9:5
"But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists ˹who violated their treaties˺ wherever you find them,1 capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Here Allah gives Muslims the permission for Muslims to only fight the polytheists who broke the deal, killing Muslims, raiding Muslim caravans etc, and to do it outside the Sacred Months.

Next comes the best part in Quran 9:6
"And if anyone from the polytheists asks for your protection ˹O Prophet˺, grant it to them so they may hear the Word of Allah, then escort them to a place of safety, for they are a people who have no knowledge."

So what is the issue you have here?

There are a few issues. One of the issues, it is not correct to say allah is all-forgiving in the context. If the verse is honest and says 50% forgiving, then it should be right.

 

[Loofydralb]

There are a few issues. One of the issues, it is not correct to say allah is all-forgiving in the context. If the verse is honest and says 50% forgiving, then it should be right.

That's clear dishonesty in explaining when it says otherwise.
Enough debating with dishonest people.
The prophet us muslims to desist from debating with dishonesty. Now I understand why.

 

[duluxe]

That's clear dishonesty in explaining when it says otherwise.
Enough debating with dishonest people.
The prophet us muslims to desist from debating with dishonesty. Now I understand why.

The verse indicates conditional mercy. Read again.