The Dave Lee (Corporal F.C.) Thread

[ChanRasjid]

Did anyone mention how the 8th Route army of Mao won over the world from the nationalists despite the nationalists getting the support of America. Did their "basic" training involved sadistic sergeants laughing while the trainee show signs of real physical distress?

What someone wrote is correct. There should be a difference between training and taking sadistic pleasure to see trainees suffers. Of course, there are other real world issues in training a fighting force.

Of course, there are human as well as non-human behind the facade of a human; it is just our real world.

 

[Leongsam]

Why only promote to CFC? Why not give him BG rank? He suffers more than any scholar general.

He can then posthumously take over the running of the SMRT.

 

[winnipegjets]

Commanders are there to drive their men to the point of exhaustion so that war comes their chances of survival are a lot higher.

It's easy to be Mr Nice Guy in the army and go easy on those under your command but this does nothing to improve the standards of the SAF.

That's old school thinking lah.

 

[winnipegjets]

This is a true story. Shot in the back by a soldier who snapped at the range. Used an AR-15.

We need more of such incidents, so that the commanders will learn to respect the lives of the lower ranks. Kill them, kill them, kill them!

 

[winnipegjets]

Dave Lee wasn't done with Tekong and didn't do enough time in camp. Yet he received several ranks of promotion upon his death. It's an honour.

If you commit hari kiri, we will ensure that your RC honour you posthumously.

 

[winnipegjets]

It does the opposite and proves that commanders are doing what they are paid to do. NS is there to protect the nation. It is not a holiday camp.

There is no need for excesses.

 

[Leongsam]

There is no need for excesses.

There was nothing excessive in the exercise. If it had been overly challenging the march would have caused many more casualties. One person died but the rest were fine.

 

[eatshitndie]

my instructor (ocs failure) was punished for waking up trainees in the middle of the morning (after midnight), falling us in, doing pt, and running round the parade ground, just before a 10km run after dawn. during the run, several got heatstroke and majority failed to beat time. the platoon and company commanders were so mad that they complained to S1, and the instructor had to face the music and got demoted to lance corporal. luckily none of us died. we all just decided to run (jog) at a much slower pace.

 

[hofmann]

Yes, but are commanders there to laugh at their men when they collapse or show signs of heat injury?

If and when it's proven there was negligence on the part of the commanders, I hope you will recant .

Commanders who have led men in operational units will know that is not the way to treat your men if you want to achieve recon 2A and above for the unit .

Tough training vs sadism are two different concepts.

How many muntinies have gone unreported? The officer Corp is not what it used to be. How many reservist units have shown the finger to their commanders during ICT? Try telling the reservists to move out if your treat them like that. I'm sure the numbers are too frightening to disclose.

Keep up this attitude, and as another poster said, friendly fire will ensure these assholes are dealt with in times of combat. It is the fantasy of many, many soldiers.

Commanders are there to drive their men to the point of exhaustion so that war comes their chances of survival are a lot higher.

It's easy to be Mr Nice Guy in the army and go easy on those under your command but this does nothing to improve the standards of the SAF.

 

[hofmann]

It does the opposite and proves that commanders are doing what they are paid to do. NS is there to protect the nation. It is not a holiday camp.

Neither is it a torture camp. Again, if and when negligence is proven, I hope you will recant.

I have done my share of route marches and fast marches. When professionally conducted with able commanders, there will be zero incidence of heat injuries.

 

[Wunderfool]

The real question is wthether today army commanders are mature , responsible and strong leaders of men.

They look to me like weak, sadistic , conniving bullies. Nothing of the sort you would really admire.

If his men is down, so be it. Nothing of the sort “ I will leave no man behind “. That only happens in movies.

 

[555]

During my NS days, ah beng signal LTA in Armour was already hentataki because of the huge mess in his signal store, a few hundred missing items. His CO covered up for him to save his own ass and got the unit RQ will help him with T-loan (temporary loan) forms with Brigade signal store to account for the missing items during LRI audit.

One day, the ah beng officer tekan his platoon and hit a soldier. In front of his men, the signal officer was a bully. But before he entered the CO office, a few of us saw him rubbing his eyes so hard that they became swollen with eye bags (eyes looked smaller) to look remorseful. Then he got off free again because it is another cover up by the CO because pursuing the matter looks bad on him.

We were soldiers.

 

[no_faith]

Before any war, our soldiers already dying in training. What survival chance we talking if a soldier do not have a chance to step into war.

Since he is showing sign of dehydration, he alone can stop and let medic cool him down first while the rest keep marching. If condition not getting better, he should stop march and send to hospital. Not forcing him to march on.

Medic and most of the rest are NS men. NS men how professional they are is a question.

Considering the hot weather, all possibilities, a human life, child of a family, heartbroken, no risk is to be taken to endanger a life.

 

[555]

The real question is wthether today army commanders are mature , responsible and strong leaders of men.

They look to me like weak, sadistic , conniving bullies. Nothing of the sort you would really admire.

If his men is down, so be it. Nothing of the sort “ I will leave no man behind “. That only happens in movies.

In my ICT, the Armor ABG CO called for artillery when his men were still in the area. Our men were still in action but he just want to make sure that he can win and get Recon 2A. The FSO from artillery was shocked by his decision. In Artillery, the most unforgivable mistake is friendly-fire and yet our formation don't treasure lives.

Do you still believe that there are righteous and good people in army? It's a just selfish environment with cover-ups.
The good ones left, the best Military Police (master sergant), the best air-base officer, the list goes on.
Every man for himself.

 

[555]

Dave is a JC student and even if when he completed his NS, his malaysian classmates are halfway through their bachelor's program in Canada, Australia or even Singapore?

What is fucking wrong with Singapore, we are giving free education to kids from ASEAN and China and yet subject our indigenous to more obligations. Conscription is bloody old school and does not have any tangible contribution to modern warfare. NS is around to provide jobs and promotions to the selfish regulars right?

 

[hofmann]

In my ICT, the Armor ABG CO called for artillery when his men were still in the area. Our men were still in action but he just want to make sure that he can win and get Recon 2A. The FSO from artillery was shocked by his decision. In Artillery, the most unforgivable mistake is friendly-fire and yet our formation don't treasure lives.

Do you still believe that there are righteous and good people in army? It's a just selfish environment with cover-ups.
The good ones left, the best Military Police (master sergant), the best air-base officer, the list goes on.
Every man for himself.

The CO watch too many movies... Call for broken arrow.

https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-...nd-inundated-by-firepower-on-our-landing-zone

 

[hofmann]

I am sure there are still many able and responsible commanders. But insufferable sadistic commanders who are derelict in their duties cannot be tolerated.

In my trainee days, our OC was SOF. Trainning was hard, tough and realistic. But never once did we feel that our commanders didn't care for us. The sergeants and PS were tough on us but they never ever endangered out lives. Heat injuries were dealt with promptly and seriously.

From CO down to OC, that is where the culture is set.

There must be something wrong with the guardsmen commanders these days. They are not commandos and should not be trainned to those standards. Get that chip off your brown berets. Don't act like wanna be red berets.

What a disgrace to the cheverons. *Pui*

The real question is wthether today army commanders are mature , responsible and strong leaders of men.

They look to me like weak, sadistic , conniving bullies. Nothing of the sort you would really admire.

If his men is down, so be it. Nothing of the sort “ I will leave no man behind “. That only happens in movies.

 

[hofmann]

Dave is a JC student and even if when he completed his NS, his malaysian classmates are halfway through their bachelor's program in Canada, Australia or even Singapore?

What is fucking wrong with Singapore, we are giving free education to kids from ASEAN and China and yet subject our indigenous to more obligations. Conscription is bloody old school and does not have any tangible contribution to modern warfare. NS is around to provide jobs and promotions to the selfish regulars right?

Despite the accident and politics aside, I still firmly believe in the need for NS. Whatever the case, almost all men in Singapore can wield a rifle effectively. That is something for any aggressor to think about.

 

[batman1]

Nothing to be excited about.Eventually,MINDEF will tell u it is a freakish incident,let's move on.Sinkees will accept the verdict overwhelmingly.Case closed.

 

[steffychun]

He can then posthumously take over the running of the SMRT.

I'm sure the dead know better.