Tea is another Hokkiens’ contribution to the world

[Sideswipe]

it was during the ming dynasty that china sent fleets of large treasure ships to the rest of the known world, short of europe. how could you blame the ming? the blame should rest squarely on court officials including finance minister who connived and convinced the retarded successor hongxi emperor (after the yongle emperor) to stop all voyages, garrison all existing ships in nanjing, and destroy almost all records including blueprints and plans for shipbuilding. during yongle reign, court officials were already against shipbuilding and voyages. the emperor refused to listen to these bozos advice and instead commanded the eunuchs and military to supervise shipbuilding. ruins and remains of giant docks where those ships were built can still be traced in zhejiang, jiangxi, huguang, nanjing, suzhou. shipbuilding was not done in fuckin alone.

the Ming dynasty had more important and pressing issues like the barbarians from outside the pass were still a significant military threat therefore they chose to divert whatever available troops, money and resources to defend against the barbarians. those ships building and voyages which required lots of money, manpower and resources have to be ended. later the Ming's sea ban was to contend against the Japanese pirates whom were seriously threatening the peoples' safety and livelihood in the coastal provinces. anyway the rest of the world was just inferior barbarians to the mighty Ming dynasty therefore they probably lost interest in those sea voyage explorations as time passed.

 

[Sideswipe]

Ya you are absolutely right. I have been learning a bit of Japanese and the Kanji aka borrowed chinese characters in Japanese sound like a mix of Hokkien and Cantonese pronunciation to me.

yeah. some Hokkien and Japanese words pronunciation are quite similar. i don't know Cantonese so can't say about Cantonese - Japanese similarity. after you finished learning Japanese, try Korean. it is said it is easy to learn Korean if you know Japanese, they are quite similar languages.

 

[eatshitndie]

the Ming dynasty had more important and pressing issues like the barbarians from outside the pass were still a significant military threat therefore they chose to divert whatever available troops, money and resources to defend against the barbarians. those ships building and voyages which required lots of money, manpower and resources have to be ended. later the Ming's sea ban was to contend against the Japanese pirates whom were seriously threatening the peoples' safety and livelihood in the coastal provinces. anyway the rest of the world was just inferior barbarians to the mighty Ming dynasty therefore they probably lost interest in those sea voyage explorations as time passed.

if ming china were to retain and grow their naval power through to 1592, they would have deterred the japs from invading korea and laying waste to the cuntry. after all, hideyoshi's objective (after sengoku jidai) was to conquer china and install himself as emperor of a combined china, korea, Japan. if ming were not fighting mongols and manchus in the north, they would be fighting japs. by the time ming committed huge navies and armies to korea in the 2nd jap invasion during imjinwaeren in 1597, the koreans had figured out how to contain and defeat the japs. the presence of ming troops and sailors in korea were a nuisance to the best korean generals and admiral yi sun shin. in fact, yi sun shin not only singlehandedly contained the japs by sea but he had nothing good to say about the ming navy. ming ships were slapstick river boats and junks and not designed and built to fight even jap pirates. the korean navy then under yi was the most feared with small outnumbered fleets capable of inflicting destruction and despair on any of the two massive navies. the use of cannons in the north against mongols and manchus by able ming generals were able to contain any major invasions. defeat and fall of ming were mainly due to internal strifes and rebellion, and intense court battles between eunuchs and officials. if there was no korean navy and admiral yi, japs would have invaded ming china with new sengoku jidai tactics using mass peasant infantry with arquebus and yari. and they would easily defeat both mongols and manchus combined. it would not have been a qing china but a toyotomi china. this is why the prc today is adamant about going all out and building a superlative superpower navy. no powerful navy, no china.

 

[Sideswipe]

if ming china were to retain and grow their naval power through to 1592, they would have deterred the japs from invading korea and laying waste to the cuntry. after all, hideyoshi's objective (after sengoku jidai) was to conquer china and install himself as emperor of a combined china, korea, Japan. if ming were not fighting mongols and manchus in the north, they would be fighting japs. by the time ming committed huge navies and armies to korea in the 2nd jap invasion during imjinwaeren in 1597, the koreans had figured out how to contain and defeat the japs. the presence of ming troops and sailors in korea were a nuisance to the best korean generals and admiral yi sun shin. in fact, yi sun shin not only singlehandedly contained the japs by sea but he had nothing good to say about the ming navy. ming ships were slapstick river boats and junks and not designed and built to fight even jap pirates. the korean navy then under yi was the most feared with small outnumbered fleets capable of inflicting destruction and despair on any of the two massive navies. the use of cannons in the north against mongols and manchus by able ming generals were able to contain any major invasions. defeat and fall of ming were mainly due to internal strifes and rebellion, and intense court battles between eunuchs and officials. if there was no korean navy and admiral yi, japs would have invaded ming china with new sengoku jidai tactics using mass peasant infantry with arquebus and yari. and they would easily defeat both mongols and manchus combined. it would not have been a qing china but a toyotomi china. this is why the prc today is adamant about going all out and building a superlative superpower navy. no powerful navy, no china.

China historically can't be conquered from the south or the seas, only conquered from north to south with few exceptions. from the 16th century, maritime dominance was important, a strong navy will protect your shores proximity and also the economically vital sea lanes. it is regrettable that the later Ming and the subsequent Qing dynasties did not understand the navy's importance and lucrative sea trades in the changing world when European powers came by the sea to trade and later its powerful navies to colonize Asia.

 

[eatshitndie]

China historically can't be conquered from the south or the seas, only conquered from north to south with few exceptions. from the 16th century, maritime dominance was important, a strong navy will protect your shores proximity and also the economically vital sea lanes. it is regrettable that the later Ming dynasty and the subsequent Qing dynasty did not understand the navy's importance and lucrative sea trades in the changing world when European powers came by the sea to trade and later its powerful navies to colonize Asia.

the japs under hideyoshi weren't trying to conquer china by sea. they were using korea as a land bridge to stage massive armies and invade china. in fact, hideyoshi first sent envoys to the korean king to allow his army passage through korea. korea refused and did ming a favor, but ming was too much caught up with her northern border incursions and the defense of the great wall. they should have learned from emperor wu of han during the han-xiongnu war. best defense is offense. destroy and subjugate the nomadic habitats north and their populations, and they would not rise (again) for another hundred years.

 

[AhMeng]

Wow..History lessons for me here by The Right Honourable @eatshitndie

 

[ginfreely]

because of the requirement to build hundreds of ships simultaneously, the ming eunuchs and military had to expand shipbuilding to other ports, not just xiamen and other fuking ports alone. part of the reason why coastal towns in fuking started building huge junks during song dynasty was because they were losing to mongols on land and had to resort to a sea exodus to islands off china including taiwan, okinawa, hainan, and some southern islands of japan. when mongols took over mainland china they pursued song remnants and survivors by sea and decimated them at sea off fuking province. fuking chinks helped the mongols to build ships to chase after song refugees in those islands. after building enough ships, mongols (yuan) decided to invade japan but failed, thanks to “divine wind” (kamikaze).

Ya there were chinese traitor dogs in Song Dynasty helping to train up the mongol and that’s why they won. But they were not hokkiens. One was an Arab descendant and the other was from Jin side. I talked about this in Song Dynasty thread before.

 

[ginfreely]

there was actually a last and final 6.9th voyage, and remnants of the treasure fleet that was holed up in nanjing as a naval garrison were allowed to sail during the reign of the xuande emperor, successor to the short-lived retarded hongxi emperor who was under the influence of ming court officials and being manipulated by them. ming court officials were inward looking and only wanted funds for their corrupt dealings within china. chinks should thank the yongle and xuande emperors of the ming dynasty for the 1st to 6th voyages (reign of yongle) and 6.9th voyage (reign of xuande). auntie (vir)gin knows jackshit about the history of ming china, or history in general. fuking province has been a place of refuge from northern wars and invasions (spring autumn period, warring states, three kingdoms, mongol invasion, manchu invasion, jap invasion, civil war between commies and nationalists) for generations, and losers keep cumming to fuking to escape to islands off china. basically it’s a last resort for hopeless survival and a dreaded bastion for losers and the sexterminated. in other words losers of wars in china cum to fuking to die, if not to escape with tails and shrunken balls tucked between legs for men and may be hymen intact for women to taiwan first then further to any other island that can give them refuge. between xiamen and qinmen is a watery graveyard.

When did I claim to be expert in Chinese or world history? I never studied China or world history in school and only read up after I left school. I am just sharing my insights on hokkien contributions to the world from tea to ketchup to sea ban which are ALL proven FACTS ok?

 

[ginfreely]

When did I claim to be expert in Chinese or world history? I never studied China or world history in school and only read up after I left school. I am just sharing my insights on hokkien contributions to the world from tea to ketchup to sea ban which are ALL proven FACTS ok?

And hokkien province was the centre for ship building and trading in Song Dynasty is another fact isn’t it @eatshitndie? If there is no 200 year ban from 13xx to 15xx, wouldn’t the hokkien superb ship building skills have progressed and Hokkiens could have travelled and discovered America?

 

[ginfreely]

Does this mean that at least some of the beloved ancestors of @ginfreely were "Chinese traitor dogs 走狗汉奸":
sammyboy.com/posts/2826338


​

Hey psychopath eunuch those chinese traitor dogs that I said helped trained up Mongol navy was not from Hokkien province but Jin side ok. The other one was Arab descendant with Chinese name.

 

[AhMeng]

If there is no 200 year ban from 13xx to 15xx, wouldn’t the hokkien superb ship building skills have progressed and Hokkiens could have travelled and discovered America?

Hokkiens discover America...

Must as well say IF You aren't Greedy and didn't buy property in Johore, you would be a happier person today. At least that's more realistic.

 

[ginfreely]

Hey psychopath eunuch those chinese traitor dogs that I said helped trained up Mongol navy was not from Hokkien province but Jin side ok. The other one was Arab descendant with Chinese name.

Come to think of it @musashi eunuch exactly fit to a T the description of evil 东厂西厂eunuch in Ming dynasty. LOL

 

[ginfreely]

When did I claim to be expert in Chinese or world history? I never studied China or world history in school and only read up after I left school. I am just sharing my insights on hokkien contributions to the world from tea to ketchup to sea ban which are ALL proven FACTS ok?

In other words, if there is no sea ban, hokkien province would continue to flourish just like it did in Tang and Song Dynasty isn’t it? Hokkien was ship building center, did well in trading and produced many scholars then. All are facts ok.

 

[sweetiepie]

In other words, if there is no sea ban, hokkien province would continue to flourish just like it did in Tang and Song Dynasty isn’t it? Hokkien was ship building center, did well in trading and produced many scholars then. All are facts ok.

 

[ginfreely]

And hokkien province was the centre for ship building and trading in Song Dynasty is another fact isn’t it @eatshitndie? If there is no 200 year ban from 13xx to 15xx, wouldn’t the hokkien superb ship building skills have progressed and Hokkiens could have travelled and discovered America?

If there is no sea ban Hokkiens need to become smugglers to do trading? and how to expect improvement in hokkien ship building skills under such harsh conditions of fighting stupid sea ban for 200 years?

 

[AhMeng]

If there is no sea ban Hokkiens need to become smugglers to do trading?

Your blame others but yourself mentality is showing....Just like if PAP had allowed you to buy BTO, you wouldn't buy JB property and get stuck in this shit state type of argument and mindset

Lol ... Always blaming others, never your own self is your trademark.

 

[sweetiepie]

And hokkien province was the centre for ship building and trading in Song Dynasty is another fact isn’t it @eatshitndie? If there is no 200 year ban from 13xx to 15xx, wouldn’t the hokkien superb ship building skills have progressed and Hokkiens could have travelled and discovered America?

 

[AhMeng]

 

[ginfreely]

the Ming dynasty had more important and pressing issues like the barbarians from outside the pass were still a significant military threat therefore they chose to divert whatever available troops, money and resources to defend against the barbarians. those ships building and voyages which required lots of money, manpower and resources have to be ended. later the Ming's sea ban was to contend against the Japanese pirates whom were seriously threatening the peoples' safety and livelihood in the coastal provinces. anyway the rest of the world was just inferior barbarians to the mighty Ming dynasty therefore they probably lost interest in those sea voyage explorations as time passed.

Ya I read about those that claimed the sea ban was due to Japanese piracy but that was just an excuse. How can treat a disease on the arm by chopping off the arm right? It’s the evil Ming emperor that wanted to close the country to cut off all financial support of insurgent against himself. You see everything jives from the way he set up massive spying network and preventing social movements and physical movements of people within one mile of home etc.

 

[AhMeng]