Serious Start Catch Chen Show Mao sacked from being the Workers' Party's (WP) treasurer

[maxsanic]

No one will believe that Chen would wilt in front of LTK as you claimed. In fact he challenged him during the last CEC. Its obvious that there is a rift but Chen blindly having his speeches vetted by LTK and asked to deliver it is truly far fetched. I am also sure that other MPs in the WP would have intervened or walked out of the Party if the claims by you are indeed correct. All political leaders have a strong element of control because it is the nature of politics and it can be ruthless but not the way you have described. Especially when it comes to Chen who also does not need the money from what he has accomplished.

My sense is that after 2 rounds and 6 years in the foray, he comes across more a pacifist than the type of politicians that we expect.

Frankly I think you were sold a pup.

I've always wondered of the 40% votes garnered by CSM during the leadership challenge, how many were truly pro-CSM instead of protest votes against LTK. From my very limited knowledge, CSM does not sound like a particularly popular chap among the general populace or within the party itself. I was also not aware that he was even seen as some sort of factional moral leader within WP.

I'm also a very doubtful he will come close to winning any election without the WP brand name. Despite having the best credentials and media exposure when he first came onto the political scene, he has subsequently faded from the national conscience and as things stand now, the WP NCMPs probably have a better reputation than him.

 

[Semaj2357]

I've always wondered of the 40% votes garnered by CSM during the leadership challenge, how many were truly pro-CSM instead of protest votes against LTK. From my very limited knowledge, CSM does not sound like a particularly popular chap among the general populace or within the party itself. I was also not aware that he was even seen as some sort of factional moral leader within WP.

I'm also a very doubtful he will come close to winning any election without the WP brand name. Despite having the best credentials and media exposure when he first came onto the political scene, he has subsequently faded from the national conscience and as things stand now, the WP NCMPs probably have a better reputation than him.

perhaps that's why he stood for party election to test water in order to realise his potential, instead of being subdued.
given his credentials / educational background, he just may - if just given the appropriate platform for him to showcase his worth.

 

[scroobal]

I do agree with the observations. There are bound to be some members who will not be happy with leadership in a party and these do come in as protest votes not matter who the challengers. The fact that the Poly lecturer who was with him during the CEC elections had a previous issue with WP before Chen came in does show that there are dissenters with issues that have not resolved. The big question would be if Chen mounted the challenge or was he asked to.

My sense is that he is a nice guy but not cut out for politics no matter what the party he joins. There were numerous opportunities in the last 6 years plus the last GE to show his wares but it did not amount to much politically.

He would however be a human interest story when he leaves WP. People would be keen to find why it did not work for him.

I've always wondered of the 40% votes garnered by CSM during the leadership challenge, how many were truly pro-CSM instead of protest votes against LTK. From my very limited knowledge, CSM does not sound like a particularly popular chap among the general populace or within the party itself. I was also not aware that he was even seen as some sort of factional moral leader within WP.

I'm also a very doubtful he will come close to winning any election without the WP brand name. Despite having the best credentials and media exposure when he first came onto the political scene, he has subsequently faded from the national conscience and as things stand now, the WP NCMPs probably have a better reputation than him.

 

[scroobal]

KJ is another with impressive credentials and background where politics would be a daily topic in his household when he was growing up. Good people did flock to Reform Party when it first started and it imploded before the elections. In KJ's case his written articles are also impressive where he identifies and addresses the core issues. But it does not seem to translate into good grassroots politics. As he was leader of the party the blame fell squarely on his shoulders.

perhaps that's why he stood for party election to test water in order to realise his potential, instead of being subdued.
given his credentials / educational background, he just may - if just given the appropriate platform for him to showcase his worth.

 

[scroobal]

The WP MPs seem to handle it much better with the same party discipline. Png, Sylvia, Pritam etc who give the PAP as good as they got. Even the newer batch such as Daniel Goh is doing well despite his entry into politics was a baptism for fire with allegations of improper conduct and sexual allegations sensationalised by the state press.
I thought even Lee Li Lian came across as a politician with substance.

All these WP MPs and even LTK are overshadowed by Chen's credentials and accomplishments. All members of a party or an association are expected to follow rules. There is not doubt that some are draconian in nature and beyond reason. Good members will walk away just as many did from Reform Party. It is unfathomable that Chen did not walk out based on what you claimed.

You might want to read your first post in this thread. My sense is that you were told the wrong thing and you accepted it blindly. You ended up digging a hole and you are now struggling to come out of.

No one said anything about wilting; you did. You either stick with party discipline, no matter how draconian, leave the party or challenge the party leadership. When things are hunky dory, you stay on. When you lose your ward, the knives come out, the blame game starts, you make your move.

I stand by what I said. You too have said your piece. Now stop hounding me. I've neither jw5's patience nor his tenacity in dealing with fake oppo BS.

 

[virus]

why so many conspiracy theory... i asked him to step down to make ways for older members so that they can come forth to prove themselves.

what is so difficult to understand this? WP is not FAP. they dont need to hog seats for lifetime to win grammy awards.

 

[Wunderfool]

Is this anything new? LTK learns it from Najib. Kill your opponents before they can kill you. There is no two way about this. You either live or die. Mercy has no place in politics.

 

[scroobal]

There is certainly tension. Asking someone to step down from a post shortly after elections is either poor planning or things have come to a head.

PAP is a different kettle of fish. The entire party is a show. The members have no power on anything. If they behave themselves and did what they were told they might become a cadre. Even when they become a cadre, they are given a list of 10 people that they "must" elect. 2 are up to them. The remaining 6 are co- opted.

why so many conspiracy theory... i asked him to step down to make ways for older members so that they can come forth to prove themselves.

what is so difficult to understand this? WP is not FAP. they dont need to hog seats for lifetime to win grammy awards.

 

[scroobal]

For politics, thats certainly par for the course. However I do not think that Chen himself is a threat especially after all these years. The guy may not necessarily be electable if he took over WP leadership and stood in an SMC. What would be a concern for LTK is the 40% votes cast against him. Thats telling and the fact that he had to load 28 new cadres a month before the CEC elections makes it even more a concern. I am sure people will be wondering what could be the count if the 28 were not made cadres. I am certain there will be a purge of some extent and this might be the start of it.

Is this anything new? LTK learns it from Najib. Kill your opponents before they can kill you. There is no two way about this. You either live or die. Mercy has no place in politics.

 

[yellowarse]

You might want to read your first post in this thread. My sense is that you were told the wrong thing and you accepted it blindly. You ended up digging a hole and you are now struggling to come out of.

Now you're clutching at straws for a face-saving exit.

For the last time, I stand by what I said, and the veracity of my source, Nothing more to add.

Just get off my back. It's gone from stalking to outright harassment. Sheez, didn't your mum teach you manners?

 

[eatshitndie]

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?89550-The-Chen-Show-Mao-Affair&highlight=chen+show+mao

old thread on chen show mao. it was started to character-assassinate and tear this guy to shreds. beware of the character-assassin. shehe will throw anyone under the bus after using you. sam, watch your back.

 

[scroobal]

Its an open forum. Do expect challenges to claims that are tenuous as best.You of course are perfectly entitled to stand by whatever you claim no matter how dubious they are as the court of pubic opinion will make that call.

I am convinced that you truly believe what you have been told. I am not event doubting that. As I said someone took you for a ride.

Now you're clutching at straws for a face-saving exit.

For the last time, I stand by what I said, and the veracity of my source, Nothing more to add.

Just get off my back. It's gone from stalking to outright harassment. Sheez, didn't your mum teach you manners?

 

[yellowarse]

Its an open forum. Do expect challenges to claims that are tenuous as best.You of course are perfectly entitled to stand by whatever you claim no matter how dubious they are as the court of pubic opinion will make that call.

I am convinced that you truly believe what you have been told. I am not event doubting that. As I said someone took you for a ride.

There are rules of etiquette even in an open forum. You have long breached those rules by stalking my every post and adding nothing new other than to say that my source, a senior party member, lied to me.

For the sake of forumers, I'll make my stand clear: the speeches are vetted by party members. You claim they are not.

Let the forumers decide.

Now back off. Go back to being the village gossip. We like you better that way. But I'll call you out when you do the fake oppo bit, like when you alkeged that CSM was a mole.

 

[maxsanic]

I do agree with the observations. There are bound to be some members who will not be happy with leadership in a party and these do come in as protest votes not matter who the challengers. The fact that the Poly lecturer who was with him during the CEC elections had a previous issue with WP before Chen came in does show that there are dissenters with issues that have not resolved. The big question would be if Chen mounted the challenge or was he asked to.

My sense is that he is a nice guy but not cut out for politics no matter what the party he joins. There were numerous opportunities in the last 6 years plus the last GE to show his wares but it did not amount to much politically.

He would however be a human interest story when he leaves WP. People would be keen to find why it did not work for him.

The strange thing to me about CSM isn't whether he is cut out to be a politician, but rather all indications and vibes from him over the past 6 years imply he is not even interested in politics in the first place. That was what struck me as odd - that with such a 'disinterested' persona, he would be the banner man to challenge LTK.

As an outsider, I can only observe what he has done/said publicly through a few avenues:

1) Parliament - Known as king of motherhood statements - a lot of vision, philosophy and principles talk. Also know more uncharitably as Captain Obvious.
2) Grassroots - My friend who stays in his ward tells me he is a very soft spoken and friendly chap. However it did not come across to him he was above board enthusiastic by WP standards or had strong grassroots organization skills in terms of quality and quantity.
3) Social media - Mainly sharing nice friendly snippets of personal anecdotes, most of the time it's not even linked to politics.
4) Party - Looks to be quite passive compared to some of the young turks who are taking on a lot of responsibilities with high visibility.

To put it in perspective, I am not putting him down for his performance. If he feels he can better contribute in the back office by taking care of his ward and using his credentials to help attract and coach a younger group of politicians, that's fine with me as well. After all, much of the expectations from the public were unilaterally projected onto him solely because of his credentials.

However, challenging someone for the top leadership position means:

1) You think WP is being led in the wrong direction
2) You disagree on status quo and propose a different vision
3) You think you are the best candidate to fulfill that vision

None of the points came out strongly when CSM challenged party leadership. In fact, we don't even know what he stands for other than the fact he seems like a friendly chap. Unless there were extenuating circumstances unknown to us, I am very disappointed with his recent actions. He is coming across no different from a lot of third rate opposition politicians - haphazardly causing drama just because he doesn't get to do things his own way and wanting to "make a statement" of displeasure. I expected better from him.

 

[scroobal]

You are attempting to divert the issue. You were called out for making a claim that does not seem to supported by any evidence. I have cited Chen's credentials, his accomplishments outside of politics and I have also cited what the other WP MPs seemed to have done before and after Chen joined WP. What you need to do is address the issue that you raised and no one else.

Do you honestly think that a man of his background was easily cowed by LTK and forced to delivers speeches not of his own making? I would suggest not.

There are rules of etiquette even in an open forum. You have long breached those rules by stalking my every post and adding nothing new other than to say that my source, a senior party member, lied to me.

For the sake of forumers, I'll make my stand clear: the speeches are vetted by party members. You claim they are not.

Let the forumers decide.

Now back off. Go back to being the village gossip. We like you better that way. But I'll call you out when you do the fake oppo bit, like when you alkeged that CSM was a mole.

 

[scroobal]

Thanks for sharing your insights. I did not realise that it was this bad. After GE2015, there were whispers about his losing to the PAP candidate for his ward. During Bukit Batok By elections, the PM himself made that claim.

I do remember I was surprised by his maiden speech in Parliament and I was clearly not the only one. It was profound, philosophical and called for accommodation of alternate views and practices. To be honest, I doubt anyone in WP would grasp what he wrote as it was intellectually at a much higher plane. My first thoughts was that this guy had given the PAP a pass to come clean and play ball failing which he would then take to the sword. It was not to be.

As to the young turks, Singapore Opposition parties including the PAP operate in a different paradigm. Its the old timers and long standing party stalwarts that demand their share of the flesh on the mistake belief that tenure and loyalty carries a much higher prize. They will be the one agitating for change and even undermining the party which they served faithfully. When the first batch of PAP MPs were forced to retire, it was not a pleasant sight as the vitriol began about betrayal and trust. They genuinely thought they could hold on to office.

Eric Tan vs Gerald Giam was one issue that WP faced.

I don't even think that the 3 points that you raised in regard to the challenge for leadership was even looked at.

One point of possible contention was LTK and his links to the couple who acted as Manager as well as vendor to the Town Council. Eventually it turned out that there were elements of overcharging that the Town Council sued for.

The strange thing to me about CSM isn't whether he is cut out to be a politician, but rather all indications and vibes from him over the past 6 years imply he is not even interested in politics in the first place. That was what struck me as odd - that with such a 'disinterested' persona, he would be the banner man to challenge LTK.

As an outsider, I can only observe what he has done/said publicly through a few avenues:

1) Parliament - Known as king of motherhood statements - a lot of vision, philosophy and principles talk. Also know more uncharitably as Captain Obvious.
2) Grassroots - My friend who stays in his ward tells me he is a very soft spoken and friendly chap. However it did not come across to him he was above board enthusiastic by WP standards or had strong grassroots organization skills in terms of quality and quantity.
3) Social media - Mainly sharing nice friendly snippets of personal anecdotes, most of the time it's not even linked to politics.
4) Party - Looks to be quite passive compared to some of the young turks who are taking on a lot of responsibilities with high visibility.

To put it in perspective, I am not putting him down for his performance. If he feels he can better contribute in the back office by taking care of his ward and using his credentials to help attract and coach a younger group of politicians, that's fine with me as well. After all, much of the expectations from the public were unilaterally projected onto him solely because of his credentials.

However, challenging someone for the top leadership position means:

1) You think WP is being led in the wrong direction
2) You disagree on status quo and propose a different vision
3) You think you are the best candidate to fulfill that vision

None of the points came out strongly when CSM challenged party leadership. In fact, we don't even know what he stands for other than the fact he seems like a friendly chap. Unless there were extenuating circumstances unknown to us, I am very disappointed with his recent actions. He is coming across no different from a lot of third rate opposition politicians - haphazardly causing drama just because he doesn't get to do things his own way and wanting to "make a statement" of displeasure. I expected better from him.

 

[Semaj2357]

KJ is another with impressive credentials and background where politics would be a daily topic in his household when he was growing up. Good people did flock to Reform Party when it first started and it imploded before the elections. In KJ's case his written articles are also impressive where he identifies and addresses the core issues. But it does not seem to translate into good grassroots politics. As he was leader of the party the blame fell squarely on his shoulders.

ken employed his dad's fire and brimstone methods (which was appropriate then, at a time when someone was needed and could stand against and go h-t-head with lky, resulting in a well-deserved win at anson) and while it's true that his statement on sinkies getting the govt they deserve, but in adding that he did not want to hear any more complaints, whining etc doesn't bode well with the grassroots as it comes across as standoffish and the impression of abandonment and finality.

csm with his smiling, affable nature and if he's able to put himself across as a man of substance and in ways that can resonate with the grassroots (employing the f & b methodology only in rallies) may just be an alternative to csj.
now, if there's only for a platform to showcase his potential....

 

[yahoo55]

My impression of CSM over the last 5 years in parliament is that he is too quiet and too nice to PAP, seems like he tries too hard not to offend PAP in his parliament speeches. Frankly I'm disappointed in his performance as an opposition MP.

From what I see, Sylvia is the least afraid to attack PAP in parliament such as her recent speech opposing the contempt of court bill. LTK is next least afraid followed by Pritam. Even Faisal has voiced out against PAP in parliament on Malay issues, but CSM has been very quiet. CSM is a highly qualified lawyer, I was expecting him to be much better at arguing against PAP in parliament than he has shown so far.

I think if CSM has won the leadership of WP, he would lead WP to be a poorer opposition party against PAP.

 

[yellowarse]

Do you honestly think that a man of his background was easily cowed by LTK and forced to delivers speeches not of his own making? I would suggest not.

Gee, you don't get it, do you? You're butt-hurt and you're resorting to cyber-harassment to save face. You forget that's why we chased you out of this forum in the first place, among other reasons. Sorry, but this forum wasn't meant to pander to that needy fragile ego of yours.

I say: All speeches are vetted by LTK, and I stand by my source.

You say: They aren't vetted.

Let the forumers decide (mojito disagrees with you, BTW). The court of public opinion, as you say.

Now bugger off. You're insulting the intelligence of the folks here and disrupting the thread by repeating ad nauseam your point and stalking me. You probably need psychological help, a case of Asperger's perhaps.

 

[scroobal]

Actually fire and brimstone has its place but you got to e careful with what you say as people have access to to the internet. Png Eng Huat and even Pritam comes to mind. KJ however struggled because he did not use the right word for local context. I think his bigger issue is forming and holding on to a party. I think his working life did not expose him to management as he was fund manager where numeric and data ruled. His people skills are wanting.

CSM is no doubt a nice guy and I like the fact that he takes buses etc. Very humble but not cut out to be in politics.

ken employed his dad's fire and brimstone methods (which was appropriate then, at a time when someone was needed and could stand against and go h-t-head with lky, resulting in a well-deserved win at anson) and while it's true that his statement on sinkies getting the govt they deserve, but in adding that he did not want to hear any more complaints, whining etc doesn't bode well with the grassroots as it comes across as standoffish and the impression of abandonment and finality.

csm with his smiling, affable nature and if he's able to put himself across as a man of substance and in ways that can resonate with the grassroots (employing the f & b methodology only in rallies) may just be an alternative to csj.
now, if there's only for a platform to showcase his potential....