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ST Forum: Town Council losses: Who's accountable?

oli9

Alfrescian
Loyal
You want my take? It was another stupid move to suck up to Lehman and the Ibanks to attract them to stay and expand. People don't care about this. Can cheat you for money is a winner.

That's why i always have this niggling suspect that Dr Teo is a mangy dog.
 

sherrry

Alfrescian
Loyal
Looking at the situation, they should close off honglim park, and change the venue for protest to be held at the de-comissioned kallang national stadium. So to accommodate increasing numbers of attendees, as well as more parking space too.
 

Leegimeremover

Alfrescian
Loyal
Anyway, today's rubbish is they have mandate to burn 35% of your money but argue want to fight inflation. Use PAP shit talk, no one would have though inflation could have exceeded 3%. But we hit a record of 7% only this year. So why are we not setting the cap of investment to say 4%? Reinvested dividends will cover for compounding inflation losses.
So if they use 35% and you get profits over the inflation rate, should it not go to a interest rate reserve fund and thus reduce grant requirements? Economics say give people more money to spend to make economy. Senile lee say I want fiefs and peasants to be a failed emperor. Not only did LKY lost votes, he may need to increase his bodyguards.
 

borom

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You want my take? It was another stupid move to suck up to Lehman and the Ibanks to attract them to stay and expand.

You have a pont there.

When someone was the Finance Minister, he constantly talked how we should emulate the big banks (many of which are in trouble today).As a result there was banking consolidation and thousands of citizens lost their jobs.

He than talked about making the place into an investment banking/wealth management centre. I think this is how so many TC's/Stat Boards ended up investing in these products-to support that effort.

Given the top down approach of the organisation, I doubt those TC's/Stat Boards will invest in such complex financial instruments without clearance from the top.
Our opposition parties should ask more questions about this.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
bro silverfox,

i always think u make a lot of sense especially in your gambling thread..

until now..:confused:

just answer this if u dun mind : even if TC made millions, how is it going to benefit the residents??

PS : hope u dun go along that line by idiot MP who said investment is to curb inflation.

I always maintain a very neutral stance when it comes to politics. I believe in letting people do their jobs. I am not a politician. I know nuts in running a country. Most of us know nuts about that too, if not you and me wouldn't be talking here. Our talk over here doesn't carry any weight at all. Sometimes, we at the sidelines we can say whatever we want, but if the roles are reversed and it comes to us taking up the role of the decision maker. Trust me, its a thankless job. You do it good, no one pat your back. You screw up, expect all kinds of criticism.

The bottomline is can we do better than them? The answer is most of us will not be able to do so. :biggrin:
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Hence, that fact itself should mean that the investment is RISKY.

Many points raised in this and other similar threads, against the TCs' investments in structured products, applied almost equally to those investors at Hong Lim.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
Correct. BUT, low risk investment (eg SPORE BONDS) wont have such a magnitude of risks as compared to Lehmann Notes.
The thing is, as you put it yourself, the TC's job is to manage & upkeep the HDB etstates NOT gamble with excess funds. To keep proper accounting is mandatory. If it isnt, why so secretive about their investment strategies? What kind of strategies that is so secretive that only financial experts are in the know-how? Does the TC bastards have any Warren graduates to manage the funds?
Again, back to the TC's mission statement - UPKEEP HDB ESTATE. I dont see anywhere written that theyre suppose to "invest" our funds.

You really think Singapore Bonds won't have such a magnitude of risks as compared to Lehmann Notes? That is based on your assumption that nothing bad of that magnitude has never happened to singapore bonds.

Walking the streets and getting knocked down by a car compared to eating a bowl of fishball noodles. The risk is higher for the former. But doesn't mean the latter is without risk. If it doesn't happen before, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen anytime from now.

So the argument should be not to invest a single cent at all. If that is what the people wants, I am afraid that loss of revenue from not investing will have to come out from the people's pocket some how or another.
 

oli9

Alfrescian
Loyal
You really think Singapore Bonds won't have such a magnitude of risks as compared to Lehmann Notes? That is based on your assumption that nothing bad of that magnitude has never happened to singapore bonds.

Walking the streets and getting knocked down by a car compared to eating a bowl of fishball noodles. The risk is higher for the former. But doesn't mean the latter is without risk. If it doesn't happen before, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen anytime from now.

So the argument should be not to invest a single cent at all. If that is what the people wants, I am afraid that loss of revenue from not investing will have to come out from the people's pocket some how or another.

Dear Sir
Its exactly the same assumptions Dr Teo the mangy dog has, when he invested in Lehmann notes!!!!
Please, we're talking about investment probabilities. Do not equate your analogy of getting knock down by car & all that wishwhoosh philosophy here.
Spore Bonds is safer than Lehmann Notes, agreed?

Back to your earlier post whether can we do a better job? Why not? And i thought Spore is run by meritrocracy. If u screwed it up, pass the baton to someone else to do it. Why need to hang on for dear life & conjure 1001 excuses to hide their own faults?
I punt for a living. My returns are definetely better than any TC investment wannabees bastards/gamblers. ElSalvador 1 Costa Rica 3. Already up since this morning.

Cheers bro
 

papa san

Alfrescian
Loyal
Many words have been spoken on this subject already. But my own conclusion is that TCs should not invest their reserves into risky investment. TC will justify their high risk/high investment returns criteria in order to keep their bottom line profitable and thereby do not have to increase the residents' monthly charges. But this begs the question about what if they lose money in this high risk investment ? Now that those TCs affected are poorer by the investment loss , residents' will surely have to, in the near future, to pay increased monthly charges.

Final word is that TC is not in the business of gambling (they will always dress this up by terming it as "investment) away the estates reserves in high risk financial tools and investments. There should be enough governance written in the by-laws of the TCs to prevent such future follies. Those at fault should be removed from the TCs and face criminal charges by the TCs.
 

oli9

Alfrescian
Loyal
Many words have been spoken on this subject already. But my own conclusion is that TCs should not invest their reserves into risky investment. TC will justify their high risk/high investment returns criteria in order to keep their bottom line profitable and thereby do not have to increase the residents' monthly charges. But this begs the question about what if they lose money in this high risk investment ? Now that those TCs affected are poorer by the investment loss , residents' will surely have to, in the near future, to pay increased monthly charges.

Final word is that TC is not in the business of gambling (they will always dress this up by terming it as "investment) away the estates reserves in high risk financial tools and investments. There should be enough governance written in the by-laws of the TCs to prevent such future follies. Those at fault should be removed from the TCs and face criminal charges by the TCs.

papa san
I second that. I dont understand the need for the TC bastards to gamble, i mean, invest TC funds.
What is TC's main role in the 1st place? Its to collect TC fees for the purpose of HDB estate upkeep & side aside some, into a "sinking fund" for future upgrades.
Are any of the TC bastards financial savvy? Is Dr Teo the mangy dog, adequately equipped with the financial know-how & aware of the potential timebomb of such investments? Im pretty sure the mangy dog is wide eyes, drooling, when he's been sold the potential of Lehmann notes.
Now, what is the main role of the Town Council? Anyone?
 

masgnoeL

Alfrescian
Loyal
Looking at the situation, they should close off honglim park, and change the venue for protest to be held at the de-comissioned kallang national stadium. So to accommodate increasing numbers of attendees, as well as more parking space too.

Hong Lim Park has been a haunt for gays, is a haunt for gays and will always be a haunt for gays.....I mean when night falls. In any case, time for a larger premise as the crowds swell exponentially. Why crowd swell? Well, because nowadays, more retrenched and nothing to do during weekends as MLM cannot, time-share cannot, option trading seminar cannot, Geylang cannot, sleep on void deck cannot....so go listen to speeches and vent off is an entertaining and worthwhile option.
 

_AXL_

Alfrescian
Loyal
Trust me, its a thankless job. You do it good, no one pat your back. You screw up, expect all kinds of criticism.

i do not know how to run a country, period. but i m in the sales line.

thus, i can assure u that it is not a thankless job. if u r the town council "MAN" with so much money to invest, i as the sales guy for lehman will woo u like u r god. gifts, ktv sessions, free drinks and food, free fucks and kickbacks... thankless??? i seriously doubt so. need to account??? yes!!! need to audit??? yes!!! CPIB??? yes, yes, yes!!!:mad:
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Sir
Its exactly the same assumptions Dr Teo the mangy dog has, when he invested in Lehmann notes!!!!
Please, we're talking about investment probabilities. Do not equate your analogy of getting knock down by car & all that wishwhoosh philosophy here.
Spore Bonds is safer than Lehmann Notes, agreed?
I will not agree to disagree with you on this aspect.
Spore bonds is indeed safer than Lehmann notes but, I have to use the word but, it is not without risks.

Back to your earlier post whether can we do a better job? Why not? And i thought Spore is run by meritrocracy. If u screwed it up, pass the baton to someone else to do it. Why need to hang on for dear life & conjure 1001 excuses to hide their own faults?
I punt for a living. My returns are definetely better than any TC investment wannabees bastards/gamblers. ElSalvador 1 Costa Rica 3. Already up since this morning.

Cheers bro

Running a country is very different from what we punt or gamble on. We would probably see some changes of personnel in the TC saga. Each and everyone would probably have to check out their notice board for any change in personnel then.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
i do not know how to run a country, period. but i m in the sales line.

thus, i can assure u that it is not a thankless job. if u r the town council "MAN" with so much money to invest, i as the sales guy for lehman will woo u like u r god. gifts, ktv sessions, free drinks and food, free fucks and kickbacks... thankless??? i seriously doubt so. need to account??? yes!!! need to audit??? yes!!! CPIB??? yes, yes, yes!!!:mad:

This kind of things happens everywhere. That is why one of those best jobs in the world belongs to purchaser or if you are a key man in the company. You get loads of hidden perks.:p

As for dealing with public fund, I can only say if there is any misuse or abuse, we just have to leave it in the hands of CPIB.

However let's not be mistaken between accountability and misuse. These are 2 different issues altogether.
 

_AXL_

Alfrescian
Loyal
This kind of things happens everywhere. That is why one of those best jobs in the world belongs to purchaser or if you are a key man in the company. You get loads of hidden perks.:p

As for dealing with public fund, I can only say if there is any misuse or abuse, we just have to leave it in the hands of CPIB.

However let's not be mistaken between accountability and misuse. These are 2 different issues altogether.

ah, only when u follow up closely down the accountability thread, u will find the misuse. "let's move on" will not!!!

i agree perks happen, and often at that. but when u make a wrong decision for yr company, would u be held accountable??? does the company need to reveal everything to its stakeholders??? since the dictators r running the country like a bloody organisation, shouldnt we the NS-serving stakeholders be let in on the truth??? why so secret??? well, unless they feel that we r fucking not worth the time or that they have invested another $16mil in the sunshine empire...:biggrin:
 

DIVISION1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Singaporeans should learn to be grateful. Without our great leaders, Singaporeans cannot enjoy the billions accumulated.
 

SIFU

Alfrescian
Loyal
I always maintain a very neutral stance when it comes to politics. I believe in letting people do their jobs. I am not a politician. I know nuts in running a country. Most of us know nuts about that too, if not you and me wouldn't be talking here.

bro silverfox,

the guy running our country now also know nuts about running a country..:biggrin:
 

2lanu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Singaporeans should learn to be grateful. Without our great leaders, Singaporeans cannot enjoy the billions accumulated.

Yeah, whatever $$$ they accumulated using Other People Money, they will claim bonus annually.

And one fine day, when lost everything, who is accountable? THAT'S THE QUESTION.
 
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