S'porean Nurse: Stop hiring FT nurses!

makapaaa · Mar 22, 2009

Coffeeshop Chit Chat - S'porean Nurse: Stop hiring FT nurses!</TD><TD id=msgunetc noWrap align=right>

Subscribe </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"> </TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF noWrap align=right width="1%">From: </TD><TD class=msgFname noWrap width="68%">kojakbt22 <NOBR>

</NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate noWrap align=right width="30%">12:59 am </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT noWrap align=right width="1%" height=20>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname noWrap width="68%">ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (1 of 13) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%" rowSpan=4> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>10017.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>March 22, 2009
YOUR LETTERS
</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>Do more to keep home-grown nurses
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As a nurse, I was pleasantly surprised by the Government's plans to turn Singapore into a health-care hub.
We have the technology and resources, but are we comparing ourselves with Asian standards or global ones?
Singapore has a large number of foreign workers in the health-care industry. Patients often remark to me that I am the only Singaporean nurse they have encountered during the period of their stay.
They may have exaggerated, but not by much.
I am concerned that the fine balance between employing foreign talent and overpopulation has been compromised.
It would be all right if the health-care industry were like any other industry, but this concerns the health of the nation. In whose hands are we putting our health care?
Is it the case that we do not have Singaporeans willing to take up nursing? It is supposed to be on an upward trend, so where have all the Singaporean nurses gone?
We are losing well-trained, home-grown nurses to countries offering better working conditions, pay and perks.
The vacuum that has been created is being filled by foreign nurses who do not understand our culture and values.
Many of them also have problems communicating with elderly patients here.
Also, many of these foreign nurses typically do not stay on - they leave after five to 10 years.
Why are we not allocating more resources to create a conducive environment for Singaporean nurses to stay put?
If we aspire to be a world-class health-care hub, more must be done. Loke Xin Yi (Ms)

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE id=story_comments cellSpacing=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR id=comments_body><TD colSpan=2><TABLE cellSpacing=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=heading>Latest comments</TD></TR><TR><TD id=messageDisplayRegion width="100%"><TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%" cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top" align=left><TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%" cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top" align=left><TABLE class=Post style="WIDTH: 100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top" align=left>Simple Ms Loke...its all about money. Its cheaper to have foreign nurses than our local nurses.
We should have made nursing an occupation to aspire to ather than take the easy road of filing the places wioth foreign nurses.
Nursng is a noble profesion. Around the world, nurses do not get paid their due both in salary and appreciation.
This government should have encouraged our own to take up nusring.
Its not too late.
A little less lip service and a lot more will, please.
</TD></TR><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top" align=left>Posted by: sharlynrj at Sun Mar 22 15:43:22 SGT 2009
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makapaaa · Mar 22, 2009

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF noWrap align=right width="1%">From: </TD><TD class=msgFname noWrap width="68%">kojakbt22 <NOBR>

</NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate noWrap align=right width="30%">1:31 am </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT noWrap align=right width="1%" height=20>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname noWrap width="68%">ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (2 of 13) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%" rowSpan=4> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>10017.2 in reply to 10017.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>The simple truth is - the continuation of giving work passes for foreign nurses to come work in Singapore helps to depress the salaries of the nurses here, forcing Singaporean nurses to go to 1st world countries where they are paid better.
Stop hiring FT nurses and let the salaries of SG nurses appreciate. Then you will see more SG nurses willing to stay and work here.
In SG, an experienced staff nurse makes about $2K+ before tax/CPF.
In Australia, a staff nurse can makes about $5k+ before tax etc. After tax, they still make about $3K+, at least 50% more than in SG!
http://nursingagency.com.au/overseas/pay.html
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allanlee · Mar 22, 2009

makapaaa said:
In SG, an experienced staff nurse makes about $2K+ before tax/CPF.

$2K+ is for those newbie staff nurse......... a staff nurse with 10 years service is getting between $4K - $5K :biggrin:

...... many leave not becoz of the pay but is becoz the nature of the work and working environment...... damn depressing and long hours :(

popdod · Mar 22, 2009

Singaporeans patience for foreigners is wearing out liao....

The more the gahmen import.
the more singaporeans detest.

This might affect the election results.
This election will be an exciting one.

:p :smile:

:p

qwerty · Mar 23, 2009

allanlee said:
$2K+ is for those newbie staff nurse......... a staff nurse with 10 years service is getting between $4K - $5K ...... many leave not becoz of the pay but is becoz the nature of the work and working environment...... damn depressing and long hours :(

not so much lah....

10 years staff nurse maybe high 2k or low 3k... other comes from allowances ranging from 200 to 600 (about there)

sister rank (entry level)is about mid 3k only

plus FT nurse is getting lesser and lesser.... hear from the horse mouth one....
either we got one big pool coming out from ITE and poly liao... or it is the FT ones going for better pay overseas(more likely)

Ah Guan · Mar 23, 2009

I used to know a batch of local nursing trainees. After a few years working experience, many have gone to UK or Australia for more pay and better working conditions.

As an aspiring "medical hub", why can't sinkaporean hospitals treat nursing staff as well as in the ang mos countries?

Watchman · Mar 23, 2009

Nurses should be paid $4,000 per month !

If not it's slavery for Singaporean women !

If not we shall aim for the collapse of the Singaporean economy since it's expolitative !

takcheksian · Mar 23, 2009

makapaaa said:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF noWrap align=right width="1%">From: </TD><TD class=msgFname noWrap width="68%">kojakbt22 <NOBR>

</NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate noWrap align=right width="30%">1:31 am </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT noWrap align=right width="1%" height=20>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname noWrap width="68%">ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (2 of 13) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%" rowSpan=4> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>10017.2 in reply to 10017.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>The simple truth is - the continuation of giving work passes for foreign nurses to come work in Singapore helps to depress the salaries of the nurses here, forcing Singaporean nurses to go to 1st world countries where they are paid better.
Stop hiring FT nurses and let the salaries of SG nurses appreciate. Then you will see more SG nurses willing to stay and work here.
In SG, an experienced staff nurse makes about $2K+ before tax/CPF.
In Australia, a staff nurse can makes about $5k+ before tax etc. After tax, they still make about $3K+, at least 50% more than in SG!
http://nursingagency.com.au/overseas/pay.html
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I am see beh tulan at Sinkies always trying to cut wages by importing FTs. These push our wages to slave-level.

Why don't people here wake up their idea and cut rents paid to cho boh lan GLC landowners and REITs instead? Vote these bloodsuckers out, cut rent, then you can hire sinkies at a reasonable wage.

(alternative: since 66.6% is too dumb to figure this out, maybe just quit kowpeh kowbu and put all your money in REITs)

kiwibird7 · Mar 23, 2009

It would be the ideal situation to employ local nurses and pay them well; eg $4000 per month and have good staff to patient ratios to avoid overworked and tired nurses et al.

BUT are S'poreans who need to be hospitalised prepared to pay higher medical charges so as to pay the nurses/doctors well?

If S'porean patients do not have sufficient funds in their Medisave accounts or have adequate health insurance coverage then only the rich can afford to be sick and cared for by well paid local nurses.

The alternative being, higher taxes to fund the public hospitals using well paid local nurses. Otherwise Minister Khaw might suggest poor S'poreans seek medical treatment in 3rd world countries.

Super_Hypocrite · Mar 23, 2009

kiwibird7 said:
It would be the ideal situation to employ local nurses and pay them well; eg $4000 per month and have good staff to patient ratios to avoid overworked and tired nurses et al.

BUT are S'poreans who need to be hospitalised prepared to pay higher medical charges so as to pay the nurses/doctors well?

If S'porean patients do not have sufficient funds in their Medisave accounts or have adequate health insurance coverage then only the rich can afford to be sick and cared for by well paid local nurses.

The alternative being, higher taxes to fund the public hospitals using well paid local nurses. Otherwise Minister Khaw might suggest poor S'poreans seek medical treatment in 3rd world countries.

The problem with the Sg gahmen is, instead of improving conditions for all singaporeans, they just cut cost bring in cheap labour etc etc which brings us to 3rd world conditions. And will cost the economy more as inefficiencies build up in the medium term with what we are seeing now.

U talk about higher cost etc,,,but how much of that is going to pay for the inefficiencies of the hospital and public health sector? And civil serpants and ministers pay? if they are more efficient, the savings could be use to improve the working conditions of the nurses and other lower level employees and expand the singaporean middle class so that the people will have a better life. No wonder the economy is going from bad to worse and with a shriking singaporean middle class, how can they be producing and having more babies etc?

red amoeba · Mar 23, 2009

Mr Khaw will tell you - up the salary of the local nurses ? Sure, how much you want your medical bills to rise? 10% or 50%?

The sheep skin have to come from the sheep...

annexa · Mar 23, 2009

The truth is, it is the same everywhere. Employers want to keep salaries the same every year. So they "roll" by employing foreigners only. Every end of the year when the contract ends, they send the foreigners back. No need pay bonus, no promotion, no increments to take care of. Just hire another batch of foreigners. The world has 6.5billion people, confirm got foreigners on the cheap one.

So when profits increase, boss pay and bonus increase. But worker benefits stay low because of thie "rolling" effect. And our ministars think this distribution of income is correct. So talented.

shelltox · Mar 23, 2009

Just look at the numbers of singaporeans taking up nursing at the relevant polys and realise that there's a chronic shortage of locals willing to take up nursing as a career.
Gone are the days whereby you look at nursing as a nob le career, it is a dirty job with long hours . Singaporeans no longer wants to go into nursing, construction shipyard, retail and transportation. they want a cosy job, 9 to 5 , no shift work, 5 days week and they want their weekend and public holiday off.
We are facing what the western countries are facing 10 years ago , our nurses are the foreign talent over there. We have move up the economic ladder and sinagporeeans would shun these break break job.

eeoror88 · Mar 23, 2009

shelltox said:
Just look at the numbers of singaporeans taking up nursing at the relevant polys and realise that there's a chronic shortage of locals willing to take up nursing as a career.
Gone are the days whereby you look at nursing as a nob le career, it is a dirty job with long hours . Singaporeans no longer wants to go into nursing, construction shipyard, retail and transportation. they want a cosy job, 9 to 5 , no shift work, 5 days week and they want their weekend and public holiday off.
We are facing what the western countries are facing 10 years ago , our nurses are the foreign talent over there. We have move up the economic ladder and sinagporeeans would shun these break break job.

One of the very real reason why Singaporeans shun the jobs : Face !!

They are scared relatives and and friends see and know them doing such jobs. :eek:

congo9 · Mar 23, 2009

shelltox said:
Just look at the numbers of singaporeans taking up nursing at the relevant polys and realise that there's a chronic shortage of locals willing to take up nursing as a career.
Gone are the days whereby you look at nursing as a nob le career, it is a dirty job with long hours . Singaporeans no longer wants to go into nursing, construction shipyard, retail and transportation. they want a cosy job, 9 to 5 , no shift work, 5 days week and they want their weekend and public holiday off.
We are facing what the western countries are facing 10 years ago , our nurses are the foreign talent over there. We have move up the economic ladder and sinagporeeans would shun these break break job.

It not that Singaporean shun these job. When you increase the pay to 2.5k at least before all the allowance. I think more local people will want to work.

Yes , you might say the cost will goes tremendously. But why shd doc and speclist to be paid an obscene amount of money when nurses do all the dirty work for them ? Got to have a scence of propotion i think .

Why shd the CEO be paid so much money with tax payers money ? Why the hospital be making obscene profit ?

takcheksian · Mar 23, 2009

shelltox said:
Just look at the numbers of singaporeans taking up nursing at the relevant polys and realise that there's a chronic shortage of locals willing to take up nursing as a career.
Gone are the days whereby you look at nursing as a nob le career, it is a dirty job with long hours . Singaporeans no longer wants to go into nursing, construction shipyard, retail and transportation. they want a cosy job, 9 to 5 , no shift work, 5 days week and they want their weekend and public holiday off.
We are facing what the western countries are facing 10 years ago , our nurses are the foreign talent over there. We have move up the economic ladder and sinagporeeans would shun these break break job.

Just look at that crop of worthless 'P65' MPees.
We have a chronic shortage of locals willing to be running dogs, a balll-licking job that requires you to suck at all times.
That's why we moved up economic ladder and tied pay to the richest, most obscene corporate bonus babies around.

8 month CDC bonus for cho boh lan/ bad performance, har? These scum still getting bonuses when people getting 'fried sotong'?

wuqi256 · Mar 23, 2009

I was upset when they first replaced my co-workers
I was sad when they replaced the McDonald auntie
I felt even worse when the bus drivers were gone too

I spoke up, i wrote in, i was amongst the 33% but i still
love SG.

Now that they are replacing the nurses, its starting
to get really dangerous.

If mistakes by workers, fast food crew and bus drivers
are not dangerous enough, now we have inexperienced
nurses poking "sharps" around in our veins and handling
"baby deliveries"

Expensive hospital in Orchard road and another one, a
very expensive medical facility in Orchard road where
Isetan is based.

All are using FT nurses, here are what they did:

1. Repeatedly re-insert needles as they cannot find veins(11 times)

2. Cannot understand simple english, blank looks

3. Staff nurse told my wife that baby was not due yet, luckily doctor came, didn't trust her and checked, nurse left in huff. Then returned sheepishly when doctor sternly told her water broke hours ago.

4. Handled my wife very roughly and pushed her onto the table

5. Very loud and very unfriendly as we didn't speak her language

6. Spoke behind us loudly in her native language and scolded the doctor behind his back for not giving her "face" (I understood a bit)

7. Blamed the patient for not being "patient" as she poked around the arm and then the upper arm trying to search for a vein(11 times!!) Patient got bruises all over and raised this as an issue, doctor said no choice, now the bosses only employs these "cheap fixes"(actual words)

8. Forgot to feed baby at appointed times, when asked them to bring in baby for breast feeding, grumpy and rude. Handed over the baby roughly (This was supposed to be a higher tiered private hospital and we stayed in a single room ward)

9. Lost our urine and blood samples and we had to do it all over again! Insisted on a local but was told they didn't have one on duty.

Complaints/letters? Don't work. Given up already.

The only consolation i have? If given the amount paid and the class chosen, we still got these "talented" nurses, the guys up there would probably get the same. :biggrin:

R4g3 · Mar 23, 2009

the money they save from hiring foreign nurse goes to the pocket of the doctors, directors.

wizard · Mar 23, 2009

That is the way they does things.

They have a problem. Instead of identifying and solving the problem.

They hired the Ft to do a job and compliant that the Sinkie is not willing to take up the job. Sinkie lose hope as they cannot imagine themselve working with the wrong system for 20 years, but the Ft is difference as they are here only for the training and experience. They can alway go back to their own country and get a better pay after their training here.

The Ft come here as it is better to live in their rubbish country. After the used here as a training ground. They will go Dubai and Europe for a better pay.

The cycle then repeat itself.

I understand that everyone has their own view and free decision to vote.

Are the 66% tired of all these cycle?

Next election will be interesting if 30-40% of the 66% lose their job to the Fts. Will they open their eyes? If the Ft policy is successful. Why dun they use it in at the ministers level?

saratogas · Mar 23, 2009

Create another job, "Patient cleaner" so nurses will not require to clean patient's poo poo or bath them but concentrate on medical assistance. That may up the standard of their work.

Use FT for cleaning roles.

S'porean Nurse: Stop hiring FT nurses!

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