Slot games, Casino Rewards & Privileges

[JohnTKS]

As far as I know the RNG set a number as soon as the button is hit and the spinning of the wheel is just entertainment.

 

[slotmania]

I agree with those expert who explain that the result is the same whether you hit manually or auto spin the button. Somehow, I think the expert should not used the word SAME because it is quite misunderstanding, how can the result be the same if the button is hit one second faster/slower? What I think the expert is trying to explain to us that the result is FIXED once you hit the button. The timing of hitting the spin button manually and auto spin is different as it is explained that the RNG is constantly in motion and when we hit the spin button, we are actually STOPPING the motion inside. So, how can the result be the SAME if the player hit the spin button one or half a second faster/slower?

Thank you bro Kia and JohnTKS for the explanation. For me I will jam the spin button with a card as too time consuming to press each time, imagine thousands of pressing and my fingers already overwork everyday with the computers

Today's visit to RWS is a super one for me Started playing 5k 5c and this machine really pays. Made $8.2k from it and run! Then played 5k 10c machine, just pays as well, play 150cr and a good series saw my credit went up to $6.7k!

Run run run! with $15k profit. Went to cash deposit to offload the money

 

[jjcc888]

Thank you bro Kia and JohnTKS for the explanation. For me I will jam the spin button with a card as too time consuming to press each time, imagine thousands of pressing and my fingers already overwork everyday with the computers

Today's visit to RWS is a super one for me Started playing 5k 5c and this machine really pays. Made $8.2k from it and run! Then played 5k 10c machine, just pays as well, play 150cr and a good series saw my credit went up to $6.7k!

Run run run! with $15k profit. Went to cash deposit to offload the money

Congrats man !

How come I've NEVER ever achieved such high wins when I play my slots - mine seem so kachang puteh compared to these :o

 

[slotmania]

Congrats man !

How come I've NEVER ever achieved such high wins when I play my slots - mine seem so kachang puteh compared to these :o

Thanks sis! This makes slot playing more fun

 

[hokkien]

Bro slotmania congrazs on your winingThat amount that you win is consider mega win to me liao

 

[JohnTKS]

I agree with those expert who explain that the result is the same whether you hit manually or auto spin the button. Somehow, I think the expert should not used the word SAME because it is quite misunderstanding, how can the result be the same if the button is hit one second faster/slower? What I think the expert is trying to explain to us that the result is FIXED once you hit the button. The timing of hitting the spin button manually and auto spin is different as it is explained that the RNG is constantly in motion and when we hit the spin button, we are actually STOPPING the motion inside. So, how can the result be the SAME if the player hit the spin button one or half a second faster/slower?

You are correct. The result cannot be the SAME if the player hit the spin button one or half a second faster/slower?. You could be lucky and win a large amount or unlucky and lose. But this is not to say that the maths and experts are wrong.
Let me try and explain what RNG is.
If you flip a coin you can expect to get a 50/50 outcome. But this is only true theoretically or if you flip the coin 1M times. For the 1M times the fourth or last fifth digit may be round up and mathematician will say that statistically it is 50/50.
Now what happens if you flip the coin 100 times. Only 12% of the outcome will be 50/50. The other outcomes may be 49, 45 or 35 times, etc....either way. The outcome follows a bell shape curve with 50 at the centre and mathematician call this Standard Deviation. So for any playing session your outcome may be more wins than loses or other way.
Now for the bad news. The slots in the casinos if they are set with a 10% HA then the centre pole or RNG will be set at 45. In effect you can be lucky in a session and win but in the long run, in another way of looking at it you will lose $1 for every $10 you bet.

 

[tangugu]

Just wanted to share some thoughts about card shuffling machines. Could they be rigged?

I was left a little suspicious during my recent trip to Genting Highlands - it was a general feeling that card shuffling machines are a little fishy, nothing specific about Genting Highlands.

I was playing Texas Hold'em mainly. A couple of players shared that within a span of two weeks, two players who did not buy or forgot to buy the Jackpot (by paying 2.50 ringgit) obtained Royal Flush at Flop, but did not win the Jackpot. Was it just a mere coincidence or was the outcome a result of pre-arranged cards?

I witnessed it happening at my table two days later. A lady who doesn't buy the Jackpot got Royal Flush at Turn and would have won 25% of the grand jackpot of around RM200K.

So, those who saw it happening will think, ah see, if only she had bought the RM2.50 jackpot! So they keep buying in RM2.50 every hand...and so that's how casino entice you to play more (by letting you witness those who didn't buy the Jackpot obtain Royal Flush so you think you have a chance)?

I also observed that players who were new to the game - someone beside or behind them helping - were very lucky (got AK and AA more times than others, for instance).

I seem to think the same is happening with my experience in Pontoon and Blackjack. Why is it that newbies have beginner's luck? Just a coincidence or a result of manipulated cards to lure them to play more? I have googled and interestingly, I have come across people who shared similar thoughts.

Here's one on Texas Hold'em (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54/poker-beats-brags-variance/shufflemaster-could-rigged-too-patent-info-computerized-shuffle-276002/):

I doubt this is true, but I did always think that Texas Hold'Em bonus game was rigged

This guy actually tried playing against Basic Strategy (http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=16865):

I used to play blackjack up here in canada until I realized that the csm are setting up the cards for the house. It can't just be coincidence that for about the last 50 times I've watched these tables not betting any of my own money just watching other players I honestly haven't seen a winning table.Maybe one or two tops.That technology they have is amazing.When I first clued in I thought I might be able to beat the machine by going against basic strategy. I played the last two anchor positions and stayed on 13's and higher and hit 12's and 13's against a bust card.The machine obviously is expecting everyone to hit everything up to a 16 at least and stay with12 and over against the bust.I did have a couple of ok days.Probably the best two runs I had witnessed with these new machines.It is the only possible way to win in the short term however the machine is still too good in the long run, it gives you too many bad hands to overcome the bias so I quit it all together.They only have the csm up here in canada.I can see why.This is not sour grape because I'm a losing gambler.I haven't invested any money lately. It's so obvious to see when you are watching all the hands at the table and you know that the cards are rigged.Just sit back and watch how magically things happen for the casino.For starters they get beautiful starting cards probably 2-1 against the player.Watch how the players cards will match high cards with low cards and low cards with high cards always giving them vulnerable hands.Watch how when the dealers have an ace they won't make a blackjack unless there are a lot of big hands out there.That way when they make a 20 buy pulling a 9 they take everyones insurance as well.And watch how when people get there double downs they get a garbage rag card and the dealer makes his hand so they take twice as mutch.And no matter what you do the house always seems to have many back doors meaning if a player takes a hit or stands on a marginal hand it doesn't matter. Say the player has 12 and stands and the dealer has a 12 the next card is an 8 followed by a 9.Therefore if the player hits he gets a 20 and the dealer makes a 21 either way he loses.

Baccarat doesn't seem to be affected by how the cards are ordered (since you have a choice to bet on Banker or Player). Perhaps that's why it seems to be a more popular game in casinos among more seasoned players?

I like both Texas and Blackjack, but at the moment I've lost my confidence to play (because of the possibility of rigged outcomes).

aurvandil, any thoughts?

 

[JohnTKS]

Man, You have been reading a lot. I have posted on Blackjackinfo for many many years. Nothing for you to worry about in the casinos.

 

[tangugu]

Man, You have been reading a lot. I have posted on Blackjackinfo for many many years. Nothing for you to worry about in the casinos.

Hehe, I wish it was just me imagining.

Any personal experiences to share (e.g. have you won or seen people you know wining the Jackpot at Texas?) so I can regain my "confidence"?

 

[JohnTKS]

Hehe, I wish it was just me imagining.

Any personal experiences to share (e.g. have you won or seen people you know wining the Jackpot at Texas?) so I can regain my "confidence"?

No I don't look for Jackpot. my "confidence"? What now.

 

[slotmania]

Bro slotmania congrazs on your winingThat amount that you win is consider mega win to me liao

Thanks bro hokkien. Sep month I played a lot of slots and high turnover. Wonder what the rewards will be when I redeem in October?

I just redeemed two hotel days stay which RWS indicated a specific week to be utilised. This is so silly. I asked why and the staff said the rewards are based on two weeks time frame hence the hotel stay period not one month. And no choice as I told him I do not stay at the hotels there so it is forfeited. I redeemed just recently and the first hotel voucher stay period is up till 14 Sep . So better to redeem early of the month in case you are given hotel voucher and have time to plan to use it. I called this disincentive rewards system :(

I prefer FB or durians buffet which I enjoyed

 

[pontoonkaki]

Thank you bro Kia and JohnTKS for the explanation. For me I will jam the spin button with a card as too time consuming to press each time, imagine thousands of pressing and my fingers already overwork everyday with the computers

Today's visit to RWS is a super one for me Started playing 5k 5c and this machine really pays. Made $8.2k from it and run! Then played 5k 10c machine, just pays as well, play 150cr and a good series saw my credit went up to $6.7k!

Run run run! with $15k profit. Went to cash deposit to offload the money

Bro Slotmania,加油...

Weekend Ai Lai Liau.
Wish all Bros and Sister here Heng Heng and Huat Ah...

Me Too..Pontoonkaki 加油...:p

 

[highroller777]

Dont think the card shuffler can be manipulated tho' the theory is a possibility. First, CRA will never allow it and operator will not risk license just to manipulate a couple of bucks, the HA already gives them the edge. As for R where they 'burn' cards makes it more complicated, tho at the M where all community cards are laid down from the start makes an interesting moot.

 

[Kia0042]

Well done Bro Slotmania! Don't give back RWS too soon ah, remember that.

I have so far "achieved" an eighteen thousand dollars winning at MBS but poor discipline leads to lose half of the winning then "gum guan" go home. As for the rest of the trips, although I was able to pickup some profits but I was able to lose them all within one single trip. Well overall still doing fine at MBS after 3+ months.

13 Sept lucky draw prize - Lexus IS250 Hybrid
14 Sept lucky draw prize -Maserati granturismo (Paiza)
Knowing the chance of winning is super low but still fell like going, I'm really scare of crowd coz I feel sick when I see many people, sighzzz... hard to make up my mind.

 

[jjcc888]

Thanks bro hokkien. Sep month I played a lot of slots and high turnover. Wonder what the rewards will be when I redeem in October?

I just redeemed two hotel days stay which RWS indicated a specific week to be utilised. This is so silly. I asked why and the staff said the rewards are based on two weeks time frame hence the hotel stay period not one month. And no choice as I told him I do not stay at the hotels there so it is forfeited. I redeemed just recently and the first hotel voucher stay period is up till 14 Sep . So better to redeem early of the month in case you are given hotel voucher and have time to plan to use it. I called this disincentive rewards system :(

I prefer FB or durians buffet which I enjoyed

The MBS E&S Vouchers are valid up to the following month only
I think mine will also go to waste as I just don't have the time [without having to take leave] to use them by Sep & Oct in addition to the 4N Free Room Weekend Dates [also subject to availability there] - doing lots of travelling in Oct Month
- as it is I barely managed to literally 'squeeze in' the 2nd 2N free nights during the 3rd Oct Weekend !
This means I'll be doing the MBS Check-in immediately on Sat after my return from Taiwan the Fri night before - check-out Mon morning and go off to work directly from there - then work 2 days before scooting off for my 10D Trip to Jiuzhaigo - very xiong here :p

Because I'll be away until 1st Nov, don't know whether 'still in time' to be able to book complimentary rooms for Nov Month as such ... as usually do the bookings immediately on receiving the SMS before the latter part of the previous month ! :(
If I were to call MBS from overseas, I'll go broke with their long 'holding time' :p
Maybe I'll use my Oct-for-month-of-Nov E&S Vouchers to book a Club Room [a "from $275++ room" ?] for Nov Month instead ?
I think not much point for me to redeem the further E&S Vouchers from my further Sep play since can't use them before Oct expiry ..... sighzzzz
Very wasted as they don't allow us to 'transfer' to others so won't be wasted here ....
MBS should allow for 2-month Expiry for use of the E&S Vouchers

 

[simb1]

Same problem I face too. only 2 weeks time frame. Kinda lousy perks....Think MBS better. Im already thinking to switch to MBS.
Congrats on the win bro, likewise, rws slots been treating me nice last week. But the temptation is always there, must control, don't give back :p

Thanks bro hokkien. Sep month I played a lot of slots and high turnover. Wonder what the rewards will be when I redeem in October?

I just redeemed two hotel days stay which RWS indicated a specific week to be utilised. This is so silly. I asked why and the staff said the rewards are based on two weeks time frame hence the hotel stay period not one month. And no choice as I told him I do not stay at the hotels there so it is forfeited. I redeemed just recently and the first hotel voucher stay period is up till 14 Sep . So better to redeem early of the month in case you are given hotel voucher and have time to plan to use it. I called this disincentive rewards system :(

I prefer FB or durians buffet which I enjoyed

 

[tangugu]

Dont think the card shuffler can be manipulated tho' the theory is a possibility. First, CRA will never allow it and operator will not risk license just to manipulate a couple of bucks, the HA already gives them the edge. As for R where they 'burn' cards makes it more complicated, tho at the M where all community cards are laid down from the start makes an interesting moot.

I don't think it's just a couple of bucks. If the cards can be manipulated, the casino is guaranteed to win, not just from against one player but against every player. You may win a few times or have the illusion of winning, but eventually you will lose back everything. I used to believe it was due to house edge, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[tangugu]

No more Blackjack and Texas for me...!

Read the following research story (http://navisino.com/kingskorner/mainpage.asp?Page=articles&ArticleID=20)

This is the conclusion:

Automatic Shuffle machines. Is it a rigged game?
After 24 months of researching the Automatic Shuffle machines, we have concluded that they should be avoided.
by Casino King

Here's the full story:

*NOTE: An automatic shuffler is a machine that incorporates 2 shoes. One shoe is in play while the other being shuffled for the next game. Not to be confused with the continuous shuffler where the cards are constantly being dealt from a machine.

If you walk into any casino in Mississippi or Louisiana, you'll likely find these notorious smart shufflers on many tables. Some casinos will actually have them attached to all their blackjack tables. They're flush with the table and sit to the dealers left. Anytime a deck is played and ready to be shuffled, the dealer will push a button and the machine resembles a toaster where a multideck shoe pops up. The dealer takes the new shoe of cards out for play and puts the already played shoe back into the machine so that it can be shuffling while the game goes on.

I have players ask me all the time about these contraptions and their ability to let's say, "Manipulate" the game. After a couple of years of close speculation and research of these machines we were not surprised at what we found.

Searches on google about this subject left us amazed at all the so called credible sources that chimed in with nothing more than the same old cliches without looking at the true science and math behind the subject. The so-called experts claim that in order to have a manipulated deck in favor of the casino, there would have to be some type of conspiracy on the part of the casino floor. Furthermore, they also make the same old cliche that, Why would a casino have to cheat since they already have a huge advantage over the players? And the last conclusion they pose is that once the cards are in motion, the players control the deck by cutting the cards and making individual plays, therefore it is statistically impossible.

These are ridiculous amateur statements and are simply parroted and echoed through message boards and gambling sites. The fact is, the floor personnel, dealers, etc. more than likely don't have a clue of what goes on inside an automatic shuffler. In fact, with all the electronic smarts and technology built into the entire pit from the tables to the shufflers to the databases that handle all the data, there is any wonder that anyone there has to even think at all anymore!

In order to explain how manipulating a shoe can be done while maintaining some type of random order, we must first look at what it takes for a table to turn the advantages further to the house. There is a such thing as a count on any running shoe in play at a blackjack table. The higher the count left in a deck, the more chances the players have to win. The high count depends on how many low cards have been played vs. high cards. The higher this number gets, the more the advantage the players will gain. The reason for this is that no matter what, the dealer has to hit on all 16s and in some cases soft 17s. The high cards statistically increase the houses chance of busting. The higher cards also increase the players abilities of getting more predictable hands where splits and double downs occur.

Average hand shuffles can sometimes produce great shoes for the players with swings that can produce extremely plus or negative values. With an automatic shuffler, the notion that the technology built into this machine could prevent the count from getting too high or low is perfectly logical. And this can be done in such a manner that it would seem perfectly random. With exponential numbers, the number of combinations would be mind boggling to the human brain,... but not to technology.

As a programmer of 20+ years, I know what can be easily programmed into a computer. Lets say that a machine walks through a shuffle and starts to add cards up, it detects a high spot in the shoe. In order to move the count lower, it could simply switch places with a "randomnly" selected lower value card, it could even move a "randomly" selected number of neutral cards before or after these spots. Through simple programming it could do this a randomly selected number of times so that the counts vary but never amount to more than what could hurt the house.

Another scenario is backed up by the legendary Ken Uston. Ken was probably the most intelligent and successful blackjack players of all time. He was a mathematical genius that wrote many books on the game as well as earned a great fortune from it. Ken passed away in the late eighties, well before the computer age took the casino pits by storm. So what did someone say way back in 1981 that is relevant to the subject at hand? Ken wrote in his book, Million Dollar Blackjack, about an incomplete shuffle that he witnessed at the MGM Vegas.

An unshuffled deck was brought to the table where the dealer made a fresh shuffle. Since the cards were all in order when the shuffle started, like valued cards stayed closer together during the shuffle. This mathematically creates a game where stiff hands will be prevalent while maintaining at time, a decent count. So as to how this would correlate to an automatic shuffler, it is simple. Simply put like valued cards closer together within the shoe. Again, this can be done in programmming with minimal effort and still retain a high level of visible random numbers.

Also bear in mind that the reason the house has such a great advantage is that even though they have to always play their hand the same, they get to play it last. This means if a dealer busts, so what!, they still beat every player at the table that busted before them. So the goal isn't to make the dealers hand better, the goal is to create tough hands for everyone. This also remedies a pit boss wasting time looking for a counter. The bad hands can't target one player, they target them all, including the dealer.

So it's not so much the randomness of the cards, that part is easily achieved, it's what type of patterns they are producing that counts. And obviously no dealer, floor person, etc. would ever have to understand any of this in order for it to be super effective. And also note that since there is no down time in the game to wait for a shuffle, your losing potential goes up even further.

If you look up the patents online on these shufflers, you will see it speak of a RNG. This means random number generator. If the machine isn't capable of doing any special functions, then there would be no need for a RNG. Also it states that shoes can be sorted in any predetermined order. Further note that they also mention Optical Card Recognition. This is the ability to read any value of any card.

That is enough evidence to show what they are capable of and how easy it is to create scenarios of truly random cards while maintaining unbeatable patterns. Keep in mind that "true" random numbers are only attainable in nature, which is real life. A computer, no matter how sophisticated can never truly produce a random number. A human shuffling the cards by hand is the only way a truly random shuffle can be achieved.

A casino is like any other type of business, they go with whatever seems to take in the most profits. So the notion that casinos always make the big bucks and never have their bottom line threatened is a notion made by amateurs. Casinos hit hard times like any other business, for reasons such as the economy, fierce competition with other casinos, etc. And one of the only games in a casino that is sometimes unpredictable in it's earnings is the game of blackjack when dealt from a hand shuffled shoe. And if a casino is willing to take the life savings of the little old blue haired lady from Pasadena, they will stop short of nothing as long as it is legal. And although the AutoShufflers are in my opinion, extremely unfair, they are also perfectly legal.

My best advice is to get into a game you know 100% is a fair game by always avoiding the automatic shufflers. If the casino doesn't have anything but the Automatic shufflers, then find another casino. If not, you will only be making a hefty donation over time. Casinos love to get feedback via opinion or suggestion slips found usually at or around a players club. It may be worthwhile to express your opinion by filling out a card and noting that you refuse to play cards with a machine and will only play where you know a human is shuffling the cards.

We feel strong enough about what we have seen through our research that we now deduct heavily from a casinos ratings at Navisino, if the casino does not offer hand shuffled low wager tables where we know people have an honest chance.

(The above data was compiled from actual table play, computer simulations and articles based on biased shoes and a knowledge of technologies associated with random numbers and odds.)

 

[JohnTKS]

Man, if you don't play BJ what are you going to play. The CRA is very strict with the casinos regarding the CSM. The easiest way to cheat is to play with a "Short Deck". This is some new material for you to Google and read up. MBS BJ HA is only 0.15%. Practically a no HA game.

 

[jjcc888]

I'm in my room feeling terribly frustrated as finished up all my bankroll n last trip's profits on generally unsatisfying play yesterday n especially earlier tonight when the 2 slots played were so tight !

Now got to wait until after midnite b4 can withdraw from atm further fresh BR - hopefully by then less crowds n not so tight slots !

Think for oct free stays to take a casino break as feeling broke with all the losses ...... sighzzzzzz

Somehow even my star slots were pretty unfriendly or only paid during initial first rounds !