Singapore's ability to create jobs

[longbow]

Lots of comments about foreigners taking over Singaporean jobs. Lots of complaints about the rapid growth of pop - charts and all.

I have 1 question - How did Singapore Gov create so many jobs to be able to take in all the new pop? That is a fantastic job and kudos to the Gov.

I am sure there is some job displacement locally but big picture is if you go from 4m to 5m you must have created 600K in new jobs. Ok, some locals are now jobless because of the FT but all the FT could not have displaced all the local jobs. And we do have lots of FT coming in so net net G must have created 600K or more jobs.

SO where are all these jobs in? IRs have not started and the construction job from IRs would at most have 30K worker.

 

[Maverick01]

freelancer , bookies....etc,

Lots of comments about foreigners taking over Singaporean jobs. Lots of complaints about the rapid growth of pop - charts and all.

I have 1 question - How did Singapore Gov create so many jobs to be able to take in all the new pop? That is a fantastic job and kudos to the Gov.

I am sure there is some job displacement locally but big picture is if you go from 4m to 5m you must have created 600K in new jobs. Ok, some locals are now jobless because of the FT but all the FT could not have displaced all the local jobs. And we do have lots of FT coming in so net net G must have created 600K or more jobs.

SO where are all these jobs in? IRs have not started and the construction job from IRs would at most have 30K worker.

 

[popdod]

Geylang - The land of opportunities.

:p

 

[longbow]

If pop increase by 1M and lets say that = 600K new jobs. If FT displaced 600K Singaporeans, we will have a riot! I am sure there is some job displacement but that is at most 10% of the new jobs create.

Singapore G still created 550K new jobs. It is easy to pump up housing prices to create wealth effect. But it is tough to create so many new jobs. I do not care if it is well paying or not but 550K jobs is a feat indeed.

A lot of business is being done in Singapore.

 

[longbow]

Problem is that these freelancers are not captured in official figures. And official figures says 1M increase in pop! They want to increase to 6.5M. OK but you would have to create an economy dynamic enough to create another 1M jobs.

After all the talk, both IR would at most create 30K permanent new jobs (don't care who fills the job). And we need close to US$10B in investments to create just 30k lousy jobs. So if they can create another 1M jobs they would need another $200B to $300B in investments.

 

[scroobal]

Not sure where you are coming from but if you are a Singaporean, you would have known that Singapore since the 1960s always had a significant FT in its workforce. More than 95% of workers in manufacuring are foreigners. The textile factories in Jurong in those days were manned by Malaysians. Even Seagate/Apple had workers bussed in frfom JB on a daily basis. We then moved into high value manufacturing and again its FTs with Singaporeans initially filling in the technician and engineers vocations.

Things changed dramatically since the mid 95 when all sectors were open to foreigners except SAF and taxi drivers. Even the elite Admin service is open to foreigners who are then required to become citizens.

Are you proud that this is a robust economy or do you think that Singaporeans should have some rights to employment opportunities.

I think by now you know that HDB relaxed rentals of flats and rooms which was previously prohibited on the pain of re-possession. This concession was given on the basis that Singaporeans can draw an income and foreigners can be accorded cheap rentals. Many Singaporeans especially the older ones now rely on flat rentals to keep their sanity and well being.

Take a look at the phantom employees scam where quotas for Singaporeans were abused.

In any discussion, one must be mindful of the context of an achievement or accomplishment. Its took more than 20 years for people to realise that TT Durai was providing less than 10 centre to the dollar for kidney patient care. The wife was using NKF Benz and the board was galavanting around the world on 1st class tickets and staying 6 star establishments.

Lots of comments about foreigners taking over Singaporean jobs. Lots of complaints about the rapid growth of pop - charts and all.

I have 1 question - How did Singapore Gov create so many jobs to be able to take in all the new pop? That is a fantastic job and kudos to the Gov.

I am sure there is some job displacement locally but big picture is if you go from 4m to 5m you must have created 600K in new jobs. Ok, some locals are now jobless because of the FT but all the FT could not have displaced all the local jobs. And we do have lots of FT coming in so net net G must have created 600K or more jobs.

SO where are all these jobs in? IRs have not started and the construction job from IRs would at most have 30K worker.

 

[khunking]

Is NS aggravating the employment problem of Singaporeans?

Not sure where you are coming from but if you are a Singaporean, you would have known that Singapore since the 1960s always had a significant FT in its workforce. More than 95% of workers in manufacuring are foreigners. The textile factories in Jurong in those days were manned by Malaysians. Even Seagate/Apple had workers bussed in frfom JB on a daily basis. We then moved into high value manufacturing and again its FTs with Singaporeans initially filling in the technician and engineers vocations.

 

[scroobal]

Like it or not NS will be an issue with an employer as there is discontinuity of service and contigencies have to be made. To an employer the 4 issues that are top of mind are

1) The need to pay CPF (14% currently) which he does not need incur if he gets someone on employment pass
2) Reservist liabilities
3) Higher Medical premiums for those who aged 45 and above
4) Pregnant ladies esepcially those that tax incentives because they are grads

Those that most affected are SME where headcount is small and any arrangements to accommodate backup is costly.

If you are running your own business, common sense will tell you that your business survival comes first.

In Singapore, it common for interviewers to ask if you are pregnant, reservist liabilities. Its against the law in many developed countries to ask these questions.

During my reservists stints, I do come across men who are told not return back to work after their ICT as they have found a replacement. Usually those who are not well educated and not unionised. I will normally rope in some of those who runs businesses to take them on and some are really nice about it. Had a F&B manager in Goodwood in my Battalion who always took a number of chaps in after every in-camp. God bless his soul.

Is NS aggravating the employment problem of Singaporeans?

 

[besotted]

As an SME owner I can tell you that during chamber meetings, same problem always surface - local hires bad attitude, damn fussy and job hop even during recession

This is a fact. We have asked the government not to tighten dependency ratio

It will be disaster for our economy

 

[Watchman]

[COLOR="_______"]FTs must have a job in order to come here. So by all account the 1 million plus++ foriegners here are holding to 1 million jobs .[/COLOR]

 

[longbow]

I was a pengkang hill charging grunt.

My point has nothing to do with NS disadvantage vs easy entry for FTs.

I am just wondering how on earth did Singapore create so many new jobs. Remember that the good old electronics manufacturing is in its sunset years. So no job creation there. Shipyards, I would imagine, are cyclical and numbers should remain even (China is now a huge competitor especially now that it is a popular port of call). Construction would create a bunch of temporary jobs but the workers are just workers and will not increase our pop. count. Some of it could be accounted to "phantom" workers but numbers would be small.

We are talking about a lot of new jobs being created but in which industries? Based on pop increase (Dept Stats), the crowded MRT/buses, the changing "local faces", the hot HDB resale market, we must have eaily created
500K new jobs.

Can anyone name which industries can hire so many people?

Not sure where you are coming from but if you are a Singaporean, you would have known that Singapore since the 1960s always had a significant FT in its workforce. More than 95% of workers in manufacuring are foreigners. The textile factories in Jurong in those days were manned by Malaysians. Even Seagate/Apple had workers bussed in frfom JB on a daily basis. We then moved into high value manufacturing and again its FTs with Singaporeans initially filling in the technician and engineers vocations.

Things changed dramatically since the mid 95 when all sectors were open to foreigners except SAF and taxi drivers. Even the elite Admin service is open to foreigners who are then required to become citizens.

Are you proud that this is a robust economy or do you think that Singaporeans should have some rights to employment opportunities.

I think by now you know that HDB relaxed rentals of flats and rooms which was previously prohibited on the pain of re-possession. This concession was given on the basis that Singaporeans can draw an income and foreigners can be accorded cheap rentals. Many Singaporeans especially the older ones now rely on flat rentals to keep their sanity and well being.

Take a look at the phantom employees scam where quotas for Singaporeans were abused.

In any discussion, one must be mindful of the context of an achievement or accomplishment. Its took more than 20 years for people to realise that TT Durai was providing less than 10 centre to the dollar for kidney patient care. The wife was using NKF Benz and the board was galavanting around the world on 1st class tickets and staying 6 star establishments.

 

[ahleebabasingaporethief]

Is there any accountability in this country at all?

If they say 4.9m, are we suppose to believe it's 4.9m?

4.9m of what? People, dogs , cats, tropical fishes?

When is there EVER a proper breakdown of ANY official figures given?

Next they tell you S'poreans will live to 100 years old and with hold your CPF payments till 80 years old. You believe?

 

[longbow]

Well even if their figures are suspect we can see from our surroundings. Buses, MRT are fuller, 40% of Resale HDB bought by PRs, lots and lots of India, PRC, Vietnamese, Burmese.

So we can surmise that there has been a rapid increase in pop. But yet these new people are not all rich and living off their trust funds. Most of them have to work. So back to my question, where are they working and what new industries are hiring so much.

Remember that Singapore is an expensive place to live so these people need jobs.

 

[ahleebabasingaporethief]

Well even if their figures are suspect we can see from our surroundings. Buses, MRT are fuller, 40% of Resale HDB bought by PRs, lots and lots of India, PRC, Vietnamese, Burmese.

So we can surmise that there has been a rapid increase in pop. But yet these new people are not all rich and living off their trust funds. Most of them have to work. So back to my question, where are they working and what new industries are hiring so much.

Remember that Singapore is an expensive place to live so these people need jobs.

Many FTs you see in S'pore are UNEMPLOYED.

They are given 6 months visas to look for employment.

In this 6 months, they will try to displace S'poreans by prostituting themselves on the CHEAP.

* my gaylang official source tells me about 10,000 of them are indeed prostitutes.

S'pore employers will ALWAYS say, LOCALS are choosy when its really the FTs are CHEAPER.

Cheap doesnt always mean good. Just ask DUBAI about the Keilengs that run road.

 

[Brightkid]

Did I read the above posts correctly that the government is creating jobs........or according, to the States Times (may have typo here), FTs are here to create jobs for Singaporeans.

Really pathetic that locals need external talents to create jobs in their own country after 40+ years od subsistence....opps, I meant 'existence'.

Wonder who is lying

 

[Glaringly]

If pop increase by 1M and lets say that = 600K new jobs. If FT displaced 600K Singaporeans, we will have a riot! I am sure there is some job displacement but that is at most 10% of the new jobs create.

Singapore G still created 550K new jobs. It is easy to pump up housing prices to create wealth effect. But it is tough to create so many new jobs. I do not care if it is well paying or not but 550K jobs is a feat indeed.

A lot of business is being done in Singapore.

Interesting question, so I suppose most of us are clueless, where does the jobs gets created?

If I may hazard a guess. The 1m figures are from the past 5 years and the demands likely comes from.

1. The high growth in shipping before the meltdown, and it's support industry
2. The trumpeting and bull runs in the finance sector most likely created another boom in jobs.
3. The government initiative couple with the many private housing projects certainly prop up demands for workers.

Other then the above.

1. As we all know, a large number of locals are displace by cheaper FTs.
2. Of the 1m, a percentage are dependents from S-pass and above.
3. Also due to cheap labor, one job that requires 1 local can now split into 2 or more. Prevailing in the F&B industries.
4. The multiplier effect due to the growth in population will create more businesses opportunity.

Lastly, the mirage of business popping up and then close down as soon as we seen them. Can't help but notices lots of shops coming and disappearing.

All in all, my estimates are about 200k to 300k real jobs, most of them during the early part of the last 5 years.

 

[kakowi]

Lots of comments about foreigners taking over Singaporean jobs. Lots of complaints about the rapid growth of pop - charts and all.

I have 1 question - How did Singapore Gov create so many jobs to be able to take in all the new pop? That is a fantastic job and kudos to the Gov.

I am sure there is some job displacement locally but big picture is if you go from 4m to 5m you must have created 600K in new jobs. Ok, some locals are now jobless because of the FT but all the FT could not have displaced all the local jobs. And we do have lots of FT coming in so net net G must have created 600K or more jobs.

SO where are all these jobs in? IRs have not started and the construction job from IRs would at most have 30K worker.

you should check your assumptions

the fallacy lies in your reasonings and framing of the questions



still, if you feel your questions are profound (and i don't doubt that you do)

you should approach the PAP leaders

they have access to all the facts and figures and are in a position to enlighten you

 

[johnny333]

Many Indonesians don't really work in Spore.

They might have property in Spore e.g. condos and have children attending schools in Spore but they don't work in Spore.

 

[littlefish]

I do not have the research figures but I believe most of the increases came from employment passes rather than PRs. There has always been a large group of PRs in Singapore and the increase has been gradual. The biggest increase came from those holding employment passes.

Now, assume that there was previously a $1K job being done by just 1 person. With the liberal granting of employment passes, the employers found that they could actually hire 2 persons to do the same $1K job at the same price if they get the labour from overseas. This is beneficial because not only does it not increase their costs, the 2 persons may actually be able to do more work than 1 person (although not necessarily double). So now, 1 job becomes 2 jobs. If you assume that there are 100K such jobs (most would be in industries like construction, ship-building, cleaning, etc, but more and more, they are appearing in higher end jobs as well) in the beginning, suddenly you get 200K jobs (an astonishing 100% increase out of thin air).

Of course, it will not be as dramatic as a doubling of jobs overnight but you get the drift of how quickly the number of jobs increases when you are able to hire cheaper and cheaper workers. The original worker may not simply be replaced but the employer may choose to hire two cheaper workers when he leaves the company or when the company is expanding, it simply creates 2 jobs at lower pay than 1 at higher pay. Over the years, it is easy to see how this can translate into a seeming explosion of the number of jobs when in reality, it simply means that the values of the jobs get lower and lower. I did a quick calculation and if you start with 100K such jobs and assuming that this sort of wage deflation increases the number of such jobs by a conservative 10% annually (don't forget that our economy has been expanding as well, so I think 10% is conservative), over 10 years, you will get more than 250K such jobs (an increase of over 150%).

The end result is that you are just getting more people to do the same piece of work at the same costs. The only benefit may be that the job gets done faster but that would require some proof as well as you must be aware of the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth". From economics, there is a point of diminishing returns where adding more resources may in fact reduce output.

 

[annexa]

Bosses always comprain workers no good, bad attitude. But bosses got ask yourself, you very good meh? What did you do to make them so unhappy? Did you do anything to make them happy? Do you respect them, treat them like human or just another factor of production? Are you asking for more profits, director fee even as you try to cut pay?

Before the bosses start saying sinkie no good, they must look in the mirror first.