Singapore's ability to create jobs

[longbow]

Questions are not profound lah. They are just simple questions. I read pop hit 5 million and first thought is where are the jobs coming from. Do not care what they do but 1 million people is a lot.

And jobs needed for them to afford to stay in Singapore is no joke.

Even if you factor in PRC hookers in Geylang, they will only come if there is business right? If not why even come. In short the hookers are here because pop is at 5m so lots of business.

 

[ahleebabasingaporethief]

Many FTs you see in S'pore are UNEMPLOYED.

They are given 6 months visas to look for employment.

In this 6 months, they will try to displace S'poreans by prostituting themselves on the CHEAP.

* my gaylang official source tells me about 10,000 of them are indeed prostitutes.

S'pore employers will ALWAYS say, LOCALS are choosy when its really the FTs are CHEAPER.

Cheap doesnt always mean good. Just ask DUBAI about the Keilengs that run road.

Unemployed Angmo FTS throng the S'pore pub/club/bar scene in search of FREE DRINKS and FREE FUCKS from stupid S'pore women/ girls.

 

[longbow]

Wage deflation is limited by high cost of living in Singapore. For it to be worth the while the workers has to make probably close to $1K assuming he pays for his own room and board.

Also wage deflation would mean lots of jobless Singaporeans that have been replaced by cheaper workers. If we need to have 500K jobs it means that we need to displace 200K Singaporeans (higher paid). Doubt if political situation will allow 200k Singaporeans to become jobless.

A potential explanation (only part of the explaination) is double counting. Many Singaporeans may have already immigrated overseas or are living overseas with little intention of coming back. However they are still Singaporeans.

If you have 200K of Singaporeans doing that and they jobs are replaced by 300K cheaper FT you will have 300K incease in pop when actual number is 300K FT - 200K Singaporeans = 100K.

I do not have the research figures but I believe most of the increases came from employment passes rather than PRs. There has always been a large group of PRs in Singapore and the increase has been gradual. The biggest increase came from those holding employment passes.

Now, assume that there was previously a $1K job being done by just 1 person. With the liberal granting of employment passes, the employers found that they could actually hire 2 persons to do the same $1K job at the same price if they get the labour from overseas. This is beneficial because not only does it not increase their costs, the 2 persons may actually be able to do more work than 1 person (although not necessarily double). So now, 1 job becomes 2 jobs. If you assume that there are 100K such jobs (most would be in industries like construction, ship-building, cleaning, etc, but more and more, they are appearing in higher end jobs as well) in the beginning, suddenly you get 200K jobs (an astonishing 100% increase out of thin air).

Of course, it will not be as dramatic as a doubling of jobs overnight but you get the drift of how quickly the number of jobs increases when you are able to hire cheaper and cheaper workers. The original worker may not simply be replaced but the employer may choose to hire two cheaper workers when he leaves the company or when the company is expanding, it simply creates 2 jobs at lower pay than 1 at higher pay. Over the years, it is easy to see how this can translate into a seeming explosion of the number of jobs when in reality, it simply means that the values of the jobs get lower and lower. I did a quick calculation and if you start with 100K such jobs and assuming that this sort of wage deflation increases the number of such jobs by a conservative 10% annually (don't forget that our economy has been expanding as well, so I think 10% is conservative), over 10 years, you will get more than 250K such jobs (an increase of over 150%).

The end result is that you are just getting more people to do the same piece of work at the same costs. The only benefit may be that the job gets done faster but that would require some proof as well as you must be aware of the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth". From economics, there is a point of diminishing returns where adding more resources may in fact reduce output.

 

[halsey02]

Lots of comments about foreigners taking over Singaporean jobs. Lots of complaints about the rapid growth of pop - charts and all.

I have 1 question - How did Singapore Gov create so many jobs to be able to take in all the new pop? That is a fantastic job and kudos to the Gov.

I am sure there is some job displacement locally but big picture is if you go from 4m to 5m you must have created 600K in new jobs. Ok, some locals are now jobless because of the FT but all the FT could not have displaced all the local jobs. And we do have lots of FT coming in so net net G must have created 600K or more jobs.

SO where are all these jobs in? IRs have not started and the construction job from IRs would at most have 30K worker.

You 'invisibly' make the employers reduced the number of FT's in which they had allowed in the first place, you create jobs for SINgaporeans.

 

[Taro Ries]

The PAP's twin role as government and entrepreneur poses a moral hazzard. On the one hand, GLCs like Keppel, Sembcorp and a host of many labor intensive companies need cheap labor. On the other, wages of citizens are suppressed while inflation is at all time high either due to inefficient allocation of our national resources or a deliberate attempt to create and sustain a bubble.

Meanwhile "forced savings" is increasingly whittled away by high HDB prices while bank interest are kept very low to discourage true personal savings.

The profits of the government, we can only pray, will go the betterment of citizen's lives but stories abound that Singapore actually has been taking out large loans. It beggars believe that national debt is neccessary when we have been told that there are surpluses year on year.

 

[Ah Guan]

As an SME owner I can tell you that during chamber meetings, same problem always surface - local hires bad attitude, damn fussy and job hop even during recession

Eating house = SME??

 

[ahleebabasingaporethief]

Eating house = SME??

SME = Shit Mentality Employers

These employers always say S'poreans choosy but in reality they are GREEDY.
​

 

[SIFU]

Eating house = SME??

besotted the ah tiong shit only open a rundown stall in a rundown kopitiam lah..

SME my foot

 

[Ah Guan]

SME = Shit Mentality Employers​

These employers always say S'poreans choosy but in reality they are GREEDY.

​

A sinkaporean who helps foreigners rob our livelihood is a traitor

No arguement about that

 

[littlefish]

Wage deflation is limited by high cost of living in Singapore. For it to be worth the while the workers has to make probably close to $1K assuming he pays for his own room and board.

Also wage deflation would mean lots of jobless Singaporeans that have been replaced by cheaper workers. If we need to have 500K jobs it means that we need to displace 200K Singaporeans (higher paid). Doubt if political situation will allow 200k Singaporeans to become jobless.

A potential explanation (only part of the explaination) is double counting. Many Singaporeans may have already immigrated overseas or are living overseas with little intention of coming back. However they are still Singaporeans.

If you have 200K of Singaporeans doing that and they jobs are replaced by 300K cheaper FT you will have 300K incease in pop when actual number is 300K FT - 200K Singaporeans = 100K.

Where in my post did I postulate that Singaporeans are replaced immediately by foreigners (you need to take a longer term view for the effect to be apparent)? I said that when a Singaporean leaves a company (maybe to join another company, retire, emigrate, whatever), the company may opt to hire more cheaper workers to replace him. Alternatively, when a company decides to expand, it may choose to hire more cheaper workers rather than fewer but higher-paid workers. If you extrapolate the results over 2 decades, you will get very inflated job figures even if wage deflation only contributes to 10% job creation annually. Have you not been hearing the lament about our productivity falling? It is because we are needing more people to perform the same level of work. Even for higher end jobs, the competition is now more intense and many had to lower their expectations.

This is the consequence of having easy access to cheap labour. The jobs being created tend to shift towards being lower value jobs and Singaporeans are increasingly finding that they have to settle for lower pay when they get retrenched.

You may think that this is not a big issue as long as not many Singaporeans are displaced but consider this scenario. When the economy hits a downturn, many workers are retrenched. When the economy picks up, the workers will find that their previous jobs no longer pay the same rates. Why? Because employers can now choose to hire cheaper labour and Singaporeans are forced to accept the lower rates (or almost stagnant rates) in order to survive.

Open your eyes and see for yourself. Singaporeans have been complaining about wage deflation for years now. Those who lose their jobs at around 40 are mostly unable to get a similar job that pays the same.

Lastly, the reason foreigners are able to make do with lower pay (I do not mean every foreigner is lower paid than Singaporeans) is because you can do so if your employer provides accommodation or if you are renting. You do not have to rent the whole apartment, you can share the place with a few roommates. They are also able to do so if their families are not here but live in their home countries with very much lower cost of living. The truth is plain to see but if you choose to think otherwise, nobody can answer your questions.

 

[SotongMee]

"Now with more than 10,000 foreign prostitutes in Geylang competing with Sinkies to sell backside, if Sinkies can still cannot sell their back side cheap cheap then I worry."-Woody

Many FTs you see in S'pore are UNEMPLOYED.

They are given 6 months visas to look for employment.

In this 6 months, they will try to displace S'poreans by prostituting themselves on the CHEAP.

* my gaylang official source tells me about 10,000 of them are indeed prostitutes.

S'pore employers will ALWAYS say, LOCALS are choosy when its really the FTs are CHEAPER.

Cheap doesnt always mean good. Just ask DUBAI about the Keilengs that run road.

 

[ahleebabasingaporethief]

Not all in Gaylang.

Spread all over the island through

1. KTVs

2. Hotel Rooms

3. Massage Parlours

4. Health Spas

5. Internet Ads

6. FLs operating from home.

7. Orchard Towers

8. Brix @ Grand Hyatt

9. Pinoy Pubs

 

[cunnosieur]

bohemian
Samster Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 181
My Reputation:Points: 129 / Power: 7


Re: PRC Bank Exec

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fun Guy
Bro, sorrie for that. I think she doesnt understand or watsover... Try again bro.

i muz apologise for my earlier post... jumped e gun too soon

yes after i logged off TX called me on my hp again n apologised for e earlier miscom. i said it's alright n asked if she free to meet, n straight away set the timing @9.30pm, venue @Lavender 81.

i was early n boy, booked e rm but still gotta wait 15mins for it to b available. anyway, to cut e story short, after entering e rm i sms TX n she arrived promptly, about 5mins later.

i shan't go into details of our frolics as they're pretty SOP.. but i'm impressed wif her great attitude n friendliness. n e way she enjoyed my painting her pussy reali turned me on

well, here's e verdict (my 2cts' worth - up to u to decide if e price is too costly):

Face: 7.5/10 to 8/10
Body/ Fig/ Complexion: Slim, smooth skin, tummy undetected.
Boobs: 6.5/10 to 7/10 (juz nice for me, but mayb a little tiny for boob lovers)
BBBJ: 7/10 (paid attention during e job but duration abit short)
Cat bath: er... watz dat?? haha...
FJ: 8.5/10 (coz i turned her on wif my tongue painting le, so she was kinda like desiring for it)
Massage: Nil
Attitude: 9/10 (frenly, great gf feeling, a nice gal to chat with and kiss gd bye to)
Damage: 150 (x-rm, x-cd)
RTF: Nodz

overall, she's a v nice gal albeit abit pricey. but like i said, it all depends on wat u lookin for. for me i go look for bong abt once a mth, so e price is ok for me if it comes wif quality - n i rate her as 1 of my bst bonking sexperience

pls treat her nice n dun exploit her. tks.

http://www.sammyboyforum.com/welcome...nk-exec-2.html

 

[cunnosieur]

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
My Reputation:Points: 14 / Power: 0


PRC Bank Exec

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Happen to be at waterloo street doing some bank transaction yesterday lunch time, was told by the counter staff to wait for 15min to half an hour. Went out for a quick puff and saw this gal leaning on my car talking on her phone. The moment she lift up her head, I was WOW..... Not bad leh. She smile back and say sorrie, I told her to carry on leaning in a joking way. We chatted awhile and got to know that she just arrived 3 weeks ago working at the Bank which I just went. So I try to date her out for a drink and she say OK (My Lucky Day).

Pick her up after her work at 5.30pm and we went downtown for dinner. I was trying my best to test water (NO LUCK). We headed to Boat Quay for a drink after dinner and I told myself this time DIE DIE also must ask. All of a sudden, she burst into tear (ALCOHOL EFFECT), saying she misses her parent. I try to console her and told her not to think so much. Time passes and we are now more open up, I pop up the question to her:

Me: Why dun you try to earn more money while you are in SG?
She: How to?
Me: Do part time lor.
She: What is part time?
Me: Must I go into detail, then you can understand.
(Slient for a while) and (Burst into laughter)
She: How much am I worth in your eye.
Me: Hard to say, depends on how good are you.
She: How much do you want to give me, if I say OK to you.
Me: 150 lor (Man Ego).
She: If I am good to you, you give me more is it?
Me: Let see how good are you.
Me: How???
She: Can try. Is it now?
Me: Now lor. If not when?
She: Where?
Me: I bring you there.

10.45pm we check into a hotel at chinatown and the rest is story.....

Name: Txxx Xxxx
Age: 25
Look: 7.5 (Young office exec look)
Stats: 34B / 24 / 34 (I think so)
BBBJ: Yes for me
FJ: 9 (good moaning)
Painting: Yes for me
CIM: No
AR: No
AJ: No
Attitude: Very anticipating
Damage: 150 / 1shot
Overall: Good
RTF: Yes for sure (Bonking a PRC Bank Exec)


http://www.sammyboyforum.com/welcome...bank-exec.html

 

[holyman]

the industries which employs FTs imho:

(1.) Healthcare, in my hospital alone out of 1200 staff about 800 are FTs...most nursing homes e.g. bright vision, orange valley ratio of FTs to locals is 8:2...(before anyone ask why so many FTs ask yourself if your mother have stroke will you clean her buttocks everyday after she shit...) These FTs though not a must, but they are helping us somehow. I estimate this figure to be at least 10000.

(2.) Banks, try callling the credit card helpdesk of any banks and you will get an FT answering the phone. Most of them do night shift. I estimate tall the banks combine to be at least 1000.

(3.) F and B/Service: The china ones that come are usually cooks or chefs. Those who finish their contracts at ah yat will hop to crystal jade (waitress and cooks) for example, we see many China FTs at bread talk, if you visit little india, the restaurants there have many more FTs...I estimate this group to have at least 20000.

(4.) HDB/construction: Still employing many philipino assistant engineers to lay foundation of HDB flats, also the Indians foremen who look after the bangladeshi, china construction workers also a lot. This sector at least another 50000.

(5.) Private education: FTs will set up shop here to con other FTs to study at the private schools. I do not know what passes the students are on, but many do stay behind to join (3.)as a transition, once they get a job in US, AUS CA or NZ thay will fly. This group at least 20000.

 

[longbow]

Re: Singapore's amazing ability to create jobs

Holyman - that is a good start. Based on kojakbt's chart (see link) from 2006 to today there is an increase of 500K in PR and non residents. Your figures, which makes great sense, only adds up to 100K. How about the other 400K jobs. What are they doing. Must not forget that our manufacturing industry is losing jobs like crazy.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=39232

Yes there are many here on a job expedition but that will not factor into the 500K unless they find a job! And given the cost of living, many will not have the funds to last for 6 months without a jobs.

Now lets look forward - MM wants pop to reach target of 6.5M. That is another 1.5M increase. Lets say 70% of that are working (the remainder are students and kids), Singapore would need to find another 1M jobs!!!!!!

It is easy to stipulate that we want target pop to reach 6.5M. But it is another thing to create the job env that can create the additional jobs. Singapore does not have a strong welfare system like Australia or EU or USA.

So if you cannot find a job you are out! Put yourself in Gov's shoes, and think of how you can create 1M jobs to attract that additional 1.5M people! Not easy at all.

 

[scroobal]

Re: Singapore's amazing ability to create jobs

Couple of things;
1) Creating 2million jobs in a year is meaningless, unless the benefits flow to the locals. In the gulf countries, job creation results in benefits to locals in the form of state dividends/welfare etc or direct job opportunities. If this fails, a lot marginalises the people of this country.

2) MM did not target 6.5. He actually revealed that he did not agree with cabinet and he preferred 4 to 4.5. He felt that infrastructure could not keep with it.

Holyman - that is a good start. Based on kojakbt's chart (see link) from 2006 to today there is an increase of 500K in PR and non residents. Your figures, which makes great sense, only adds up to 100K. How about the other 400K jobs. What are they doing. Must not forget that our manufacturing industry is losing jobs like crazy.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=39232

Yes there are many here on a job expedition but that will not factor into the 500K unless they find a job! And given the cost of living, many will not have the funds to last for 6 months without a jobs.

Now lets look forward - MM wants pop to reach target of 6.5M. That is another 1.5M increase. Lets say 70% of that are working (the remainder are students and kids), Singapore would need to find another 1M jobs!!!!!!

It is easy to stipulate that we want target pop to reach 6.5M. But it is another thing to create the job env that can create the additional jobs. Singapore does not have a strong welfare system like Australia or EU or USA.

So if you cannot find a job you are out! Put yourself in Gov's shoes, and think of how you can create 1M jobs to attract that additional 1.5M people! Not easy at all.

 

[holyman]

Re: Singapore's amazing ability to create jobs

there are still 2 more groups:

(1.) the IT group which comprises mostly Indiands and Chinese, many have already been sent back but i estimate there are a least another 10000 left

(2.) the high end group, compromising of desperate housewives and their high ranking ang moh husbands(e.g. all the C?O), you know those who drive big Volvo and Lexus SUV the japanese, Jet Li, Gong Li, kopi annan, the Indonesians Chinese, other royalty, burmese drug lords, mostly those who have kids in international school etc...this group another 10000.

(3.) the higher skilled group, TCM , Drs, (there are abundance of these 2 groups now)physiotherapist, etc another 10000.

(4.) transient group, e.g. those are get the PR, unable to find job, and needs to return, aso thoose from employment agency, this group second largest at least 50000

(5.) lastly, the original FTs, the malaysian factory workers (talking about jobs here right?)

 

[longbow]

Re: Singapore's amazing ability to create jobs

I am far more simplistic. I am looking at the mere fact of creating the 1M jobs. Does not matter if there is actual benefit to citizens. But how to create the env that can generate that many jobs. Now I have not seen the Gov coming in and hiring a few hundred thousand into its payroll. So these jobs must have been created in the private sector somehow.

Couple years back, we were told that Singaporeans were asset rich (also mean CPF generated property bubble). So this increase in population would maintain or increase the wealth of the majority of Singaporeans.

Remember, the main purpose of any political party, once they have tasted power, is to remain in power. So whatever their plans are, it is not to lose power. They are playing a risky game with this FT policy. But if they can create a steady appreciation in housing prices (no boom bust senarios) that could very well create the desired wealth effect.

You mentioned about Singaporeans sustaining a living just by renting out flat to FT. If that Singaporean can earn $3K in rental for his 5 rm flat in 5 years time, he is going to be pretty happy.


As for MM not supporting the 5m pop growth, I do not believe that is what he feels (what he says is another matter). In Singapore, such critical decisions, especially those that are politically risky usually gets nod from MM. Even the whole IR probably had the nod from MM before anything happens.

Couple of things;
1) Creating 2million jobs in a year is meaningless, unless the benefits flow to the locals. In the gulf countries, job creation results in benefits to locals in the form of state dividends/welfare etc or direct job opportunities. If this fails, a lot marginalises the people of this country.

2) MM did not target 6.5. He actually revealed that he did not agree with cabinet and he preferred 4 to 4.5. He felt that infrastructure could not keep with it.

 

[scroobal]

Re: Singapore's amazing ability to create jobs

Any endeavour by a ruling government must result in a steady and appreciate rise in quality of life. We engage in economic activity as a means to achieve that.

I did sense that you were very simplistic in your approach to job creation. Wanted to see if you relate job creation to its final goal - improved quality of life to all.

I am far more simplistic. I am looking at the mere fact of creating the 1M jobs. Does not matter if there is actual benefit to citizens. But how to create the env that can generate that many jobs. Now I have not seen the Gov coming in and hiring a few hundred thousand into its payroll. So these jobs must have been created in the private sector somehow.

Couple years back, we were told that Singaporeans were asset rich (also mean CPF generated property bubble). So this increase in population would maintain or increase the wealth of the majority of Singaporeans.

Remember, the main purpose of any political party, once they have tasted power, is to remain in power. So whatever their plans are, it is not to lose power. They are playing a risky game with this FT policy. But if they can create a steady appreciation in housing prices (no boom bust senarios) that could very well create the desired wealth effect.

You mentioned about Singaporeans sustaining a living just by renting out flat to FT. If that Singaporean can earn $3K in rental for his 5 rm flat in 5 years time, he is going to be pretty happy.