Singapore 8th most indebted nation on the face on this earth!

[talkincock]

8th only hah? Not good enough! USA is No 1. Must catch up!

The so called debt is that the money (CPF) belongs to the people of Singapore.
USA owes China trillions of dollars!

PM Lee : [The Social Media / the Internet] ..... it is anonymous, it is chaotic, it is unfiltered, unmoderated and so the medium lends itself to many negative views and ridiculous untruths...

Agree while PAP forums, STOMP and facebook of ministers have been deleting comments and criticisms critical to the PAP.

 

[johnny333]

The solution is to get another citizenship and passport in a developed country to secure a future for your family. If you recall old man in one of is moments of truth revealed publicly how Li Hong Yi was persuading his younger brother not to take up scholarship and work overseas. The US will never fail. All they have to is lift all their moratoriums and release their vast amount of forest reserves and start pulling out oil, minerals etc. Only a donkey holding his dick with both hands will think that US will fail while Singapore will prevail.

Canada is better than the US. Only 30+ million people for a country the same size as the US. Got good health care & social services.

 

[johnny333]

It is so sad that they lost billions within months what took decades to build up. And no one is punished for this huge loss!

What to do, the majority of "citizens" seem to be satisfied with their multi-millionaire civil servants

When they find out the true state of the reserves, these same people will be the very same "citizens" who'll want hang the PAP.
LKY knows this, that's why he'll stone wall the opposition as long as he's alive.

 

[da dick]

the diagram for USA looks very fake loh. last year it's debt s'pose to be worse than greece.

 

[Ramseth]

Canada is better than the US. Only 30+ million people for a country the same size as the US. Got good health care & social services.

Canada and Australia are more or less same area size as US but too bad, 90% of their lands are uninhabitable. That's why they've more or less 10% of US population size only.

 

[johnny333]

Canada and Australia are more or less same area size as US but too bad, 90% of their lands are uninhabitable. That's why they've more or less 10% of US population size only.

To a certain extent that is true, but there is more than enough room for a couple of extra millions of people.
It's not as crowded as Spore & they are more selective as to who they let in, unlike Spore

Canada's low population can be attributed to the lost generations of those who died in WW1 & WW2.
Imagine the impact of losing hundreds of thousands of males

Some newer asians emigrants might not like the cold of Alberta or Saskatchewan, but many 2nd generation asians call it home.
For many Europeans the cold is normal.


Many Canadians prefer the excitement of working down in the USA, Europe & Asia.
They have plenty of opportunity to work work in those countries. The Canadian passport is more valuable than a Spore passport.

What's important is that it has plenty of resources: water, oil, gas, timber, agriculture, cattle, fishing,....
If your a PR or citizen of Canada you will enjoy a high quality of life even if you are a "lesser mortal"

 

[Sperminator]

...

Many Canadians prefer the excitement of working down in the USA, Europe & Asia.
They have plenty of opportunity to work work in those countries. The Canadian passport is more valuable than a Spore passport.

What's important is that it has plenty of resources: water, oil, gas, timber, agriculture, cattle, fishing,....
If your a PR or citizen of Canada you will enjoy a high quality of life even if you are a "lesser mortal"

Brother Johnny333,

HOW DO WE BECOME A CANADIAN CITIZEN??? or case in point, AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN???

 

[Ash007]

You have to have a PR 1st in Aussieland before being a citizen. Getting the PR is the hard part. For more infor look up at the emigration folder or

http://immi.gov.au

Brother Johnny333,

HOW DO WE BECOME A CANADIAN CITIZEN??? or case in point, AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN???

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

I like this thread as it sets me thinking about the history of money. I came across this article where it says:

"The country sells bonds to the bank in return for money it cannot raise in taxes. The bonds are paid for by money produced from thin air. The government pays interest on the money it borrowed by borrowing more money in the same way. There is no way this debt can ever be paid, it has and will continue to increase.

If the government did find a way to pay off the debt, the result would be that there would be no bonds to back the currency, so to pay the debt would be to kill the currency."

Can any one use simple analogy to explain the above equation, especially how the bonds are used to back the currency. It's something which I couldn't understand.

Thank you.

 

[neddy]

I like this thread as it sets me thinking about the history of money. I came across this article where it says:

"The country sells bonds to the bank in return for money it cannot raise in taxes. The bonds are paid for by money produced from thin air. The government pays interest on the money it borrowed by borrowing more money in the same way. There is no way this debt can ever be paid, it has and will continue to increase.

If the government did find a way to pay off the debt, the result would be that there would be no bonds to back the currency, so to pay the debt would be to kill the currency."

Can any one use simple analogy to explain the above equation, especially how the bonds are used to back the currency. It's something which I couldn't understand.

Thank you.

Originally, the US Greenbacks are original bonds issue directly by governments to the public (including banks)

But some smart people come out with the idea of Central bank and the US now sell bonds to that bank. The owners are now Trillionnaires.

 

[johnny333]

Brother Johnny333,

HOW DO WE BECOME A CANADIAN CITIZEN??? or case in point, AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN???

For Canada go read about the requirements at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp

They have a point system where you get points for being able to speak english or french, age, vocation, etc.
If you fit the criteria you then have to pay a processing fee. Once you land in Canada as a Permanent Resident you enjoy all rights & privileges of a citizen except the vote.

After you've resided in Canada for 5 years you can become a citizen. Many PRs don't convert. I knew a german who made a promise to their parents that they would keep their german citizenship I doubt Sporeans are that patriotic:o

One of the reasons Canada is so foreigner friendly is because there are many PRs & 1st generation Canadians around. In all the years I was there I only had problems from someone who was from a small town, my roomate At the Uni I decided to stay at the dorm to meet the locals. The age & cultural difference was too vast, or maybe because he was a jerk Could be because at the small town his father was an elite:p

 

[neddy]

The US will never fail. All they have to is lift all their moratoriums and release their vast amount of forest reserves and start pulling out oil, minerals etc. Only a donkey holding his dick with both hands will think that US will fail while Singapore will prevail.

There is a separation between USA as an economic entity and the US dollar which is a reserved currency. Those resources that US have will only need to come into use when US cannot manipulate its own dollar. That is why US can afford to give up the peg to Gold in 1971 and still maintain reserve currency status.

Currently, the issue of US Dollars is that it is American's currency but other countries' problem.
It is not a big issue in USA other than causing major unemployment and de-leveraging, but it is exporting inflation globally.
Any countries that want to export to USA must be technologically advanced or able to produce goods cheap. The US just need to print money (pressing a few keys on the computer) to buy them.

 

[neddy]

Correction


My hunble view on what is really going on ...

Originally, the US Greenbacks are original bonds issue directly by US government treasury to the public (including banks). These are printed on greenback papers.

But some smart people come out with the idea of Central bank and the US has to "buy" the central bank's bonds to fund themselves. In their other words, the US Treasury has to pay interest on money provided by the central bank.

I cannot wait for the US interest rates to go up.

Because more and more tax collected by the government will be used to pay back the interests owed to the central bank, Fed Reserve.

The owners of US Fed Reserve are now Trillionnaires.

 

[Sperminator]

.....
Can any one use simple analogy to explain the above equation, especially how the bonds are used to back the currency. It's something which I couldn't understand.

Thank you.

let me try to simplify my understanding of the MONEY = DEBT concept.

5000 years ago... GOLD / SILVER / COPPER is legal tender... globally.

when in the 1400s... when GOLD/SILVER/COPPER is deemed to be too heavy to carry around for trades...

BANKS were created to have huge safes to keep GOLD/SILVER. there is a GOLD / SILVER receipt being issued, which entitles the bearer to exchange the receipt for the amount of GOLD / SILVER reflected.

The GOLD / SILVER receipts were so effective, that people actually wanted to use GOLD / SILVER receipts for trading, as you don't have to carry heavy GOLD / SILVER around.

Then the BANK realized something... since there is so much circulation of GOLD / SILVER receipts, not too many people want to use their receipts to redeem for gold / silver as it's very convenient...

So, the BANK did something sneaky... they issued MORE Gold Receipts in the market... without GOLD. The beginning of PAPER CURRENCY.

Fast forward to 1912... FEDERAL BANK was created in USA, by JEWS, sole purpose....

FED printed FED NOTES in exchange of REAL GOLD from FORT KNOX...

FED take GOLD, and issue IOU notes to USA government. USA monetary system get the right to PRINT PAPER CURRENCY backed by GOLD.

Fast forward to 1971.

GOLD is no longer that many in FORT KNOX.

President Nixon depeg GOLD with PAPER currency...

Thus, FED issue IOU without receiving GOLD.

FED continue to issue IOU notes to USA government for them to have the right to print PAPER CURRENCY.

FED & USA government go cahoot into making the USD as the world currency, using the Petro Recyling Dollars Plan.

WALL STREET came up with the Mini-bonds, Collateralize Debt Obligations (Subprime Mortgages), etc...

BANKS in USA come up with the FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING POLICY, i.e. if banks have USD 1 million, they can loan out USD 9 million without any of their own cash.

USA can issue T-BILLS from thin air, as there is no GOLD PEG, but because of the high demand from global trade of 70% demand of USD for global trades, and the petrol recycling dollars which create a huge demand for dollars.

With all these combined...

The world money is just going to be more and more USD... and T-Bills just keep on printing, as the debts will keep on snowballing bigger and bigger... but will it ever burst?

Only God Knows... because today's world... DEBT = MONEY, and MONEY = DEBT... if you try to pay off the debts, you will actually reduce the money supply (USD) in the world causing DEFLATION...

DEFLATION is even worst that INFLATION... it's just a fucking game... just make sure you don't have too much debts, and also spend within your means...

I don't even care about what is going on with the debt crisis anymore, because there is nothing we can do, unless you have TRILLIONS of USD in your bank account...

so, fuck it, just live life happy, and know that DEBT = MONEY, and MONEY = DEBT in today's context...

 

[Aussie Prick]

USA always seems to able to get away with its debt and murder at the expense of its working class people .
It's not so much a bad deal with more people . Just more crowded .

US can "get away with debt" because they own the world's reserve currency. When they print, we all suffer hot money flows and higher commodity costs. No one else has this weapon.

US wants a lower dollar due to its trade war with China, who refuses to let their currency rise. If China let currency rise then more people buying things and PRC govt afraid of rioting, social unrest, so to control people in China, govt keeping Yuan very weak by buying 3.2Trillion in USD and foreign reserves and maintain production based economy.

The US is under fire not because of its debt - but because of its deficit of 1.4T. In Singapore we are "OK" because of our "balanced budget" and "Surplus".

 

[japarmy]

Singapore's massive debt is missing money. Where did all the borrowed money go? So far as I know, the Singapore government has always had a surplus of tax revenues over expenditures. It has to be that the Lee family has the money stashed in foreign bank accounts. This finishes the Mexican Carlos Slim as the world's richest man. Long live LKY, the world's richest man!

 

[Char_Azn]

the diagram for USA looks very fake loh. last year it's debt s'pose to be worse than greece.

The debt for SG is all CPF money to be a debt unlike the debt for other country. One of the reason being CPF is invested in government bonds to give it a fix rate of returns hence classified as Debt. SG reserves basically > CPF a few times over so it's unlikely we will run into the same problem as the US.

If the Western powers include their ponzi scheme welfare system as debt, their debt will be astronomical. Case in point, the US debt officially is around $17 trillion, someone calculated that if they added the welfare payout, it should be closer to $211trillion

 

[japarmy]

The debt for SG is all CPF money to be a debt unlike the debt for other country. One of the reason being CPF is invested in government bonds to give it a fix rate of returns hence classified as Debt. SG reserves basically > CPF a few times over so it's unlikely we will run into the same problem as the US.

If the Western powers include their ponzi scheme welfare system as debt, their debt will be astronomical. Case in point, the US debt officially is around $17 trillion, someone calculated that if they added the welfare payout, it should be closer to $211trillion

First off, only 32% of the US national debt is foreign. Most is owed to Americans. Like Singapore "borrowing" from CPF, the US borrowed mainly from it's Social Security (CPF like fund), for the purpose of paying for the wars in the Middle East ($4 trillion). This borrowing is like that of Singapore, as the US Social Security has been forced to buy US government bonds. Yes, the Singapore and US bonds pay interest, but are they a good investment.

The US uses the money it gets from selling bonds to wage war. What does Singapore do with the money it receives from selling bonds to CPF? Singapore has no wars. Everything seems profitable. So, where did the money go. We can only guess that it probably goes to the same people who control Singapore's national reserves. If Ong Teng Chong could not find out, who can?

 

[Char_Azn]

First off, only 32% of the US national debt is foreign. Most is owed to Americans. Like Singapore "borrowing" from CPF, the US borrowed mainly from it's Social Security (CPF like fund), for the purpose of paying for the wars in the Middle East ($4 trillion). This borrowing is like that of Singapore, as the US Social Security has been forced to buy US government bonds. Yes, the Singapore and US bonds pay interest, but are they a good investment.

The US uses the money it gets from selling bonds to wage war. What does Singapore do with the money it receives from selling bonds to CPF? Singapore has no wars. Everything seems profitable. So, where did the money go. We can only guess that it probably goes to the same people who control Singapore's national reserves. If Ong Teng Chong could not find out, who can?

Whether the CPF money is a good investment is subjective, in any case I just stated where the CPF money went to which it is officially a debt unlike how most other countries due with it. If you don't think the CPF investment is a good one, I dun totally disagree either

And to suggest the amt in the reserves is unknown is a great insult to the late Mr Ong Teng Chong. I suggest you check on why Mr Ong was arguing with the government again. He knew how much money were in the reserves, he knew how much assets GIC and Temasek Holdings had. He only contested on the final component of the reserves, value of immovable assets, basically state land and buildings own by the civil service. GCT argue that it will take forever to valuate the those stuff so they came to a compromise, they gave him a list of land and buildings instead of having them valuated. He even wrote down a set of regulations on how the reserves should be guarded hence no need for Nathan to do any real work

 

[japarmy]

Whether the CPF money is a good investment is subjective, in any case I just stated where the CPF money went to which it is officially a debt unlike how most other countries due with it. If you don't think the CPF investment is a good one, I dun totally disagree either

And to suggest the amt in the reserves is unknown is a great insult to the late Mr Ong Teng Chong. I suggest you check on why Mr Ong was arguing with the government again. He knew how much money were in the reserves, he knew how much assets GIC and Temasek Holdings had. He only contested on the final component of the reserves, value of immovable assets, basically state land and buildings own by the civil service. GCT argue that it will take forever to valuate the those stuff so they came to a compromise, they gave him a list of land and buildings instead of having them valuated. He even wrote down a set of regulations on how the reserves should be guarded hence no need for Nathan to do any real work

You should check your history. I am just writing a post for my blog, where I state, "Soon after his election to the presidency in 1993, Ong Teng Chong felt it was his duty to know the value of Singapore's financial reserves. The Singapore government resisted saying it would take 56 man-years to produce a dollar-and-cents value of Singapore’s immovable assets (real property) alone. Ong never found out the value of Singapore’s reserves. He completed his term as president in 1998 and died in 2002."

Ong died (mysteriously) never knowing the value of the reserves. Along with Devan Nair, Ong was the only other president who was not accorded a state funeral.