SIA pilots urged by union to boycott dinner

[Ramseth]

So yes, the new passengers jets are basically fly by wire controlled by computers. (Also the planes can be pre-programmed for auto take/off and landing).

Major Kuku, please don't anyhow give command to Starship Alien Expedition. I don't think there's such thing as auto-pilot take-off or landing. The variables of taxiing and queueing already demand human control. Otherwise what the hell am I here for? I'm Control Tower operator lah! Don't anyhow retrench me ah!

 

[kukubird58]

Major Kuku, please don't anyhow give command to Starship Alien Expedition. I don't think there's such thing as auto-pilot take-off or landing. The variables of taxiing and queueing already demand human control. Otherwise what the hell am I here for? I'm Control Tower operator!

hahaha...ah Ram, I say can be done.
relax.....of course there are other factors that made such features not practical.

 

[Windsor]

Quote from Wikipedia: Autopilots in modern complex aircraft are three-axis and generally divide a flight into taxi, takeoff, ascent, level, descent, approach and landing phases. Autopilots exist that automate all of these flight phases except the taxiing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot

Major Kuku, please don't anyhow give command to Starship Alien Expedition. I don't think there's such thing as auto-pilot take-off or landing. The variables of taxiing and queueing already demand human control. Otherwise what the hell am I here for? I'm Control Tower operator lah! Don't anyhow retrench me ah!

 

[Windsor]

Quite correct. most of the time during a long flight the crew just sit and tell grandmother stories. The times they are busy will be before and after take-off and before and after landing.

Nowadays, air plane is put on auto pilot. I wont say that will be perfect. You just need the co pilot to fly the plane. Anything wrong , co pilot will consult the senior pilot. They just need to mend on take off and landing.

Pilot pay is this high is because they are in charge of life of few hundreds passenger in one go.

Why must pilot take a pay cut at 62 ? How about the CEO ? If the CEO manage to cut the pay of those pilot. His own salary will sore like a fighter plane.

 

[holyman]

i think many people here are being unnecessary emotional because of the biasness towards the brand "SIA"...

let me share a story here...in previous place of employment, they practice hiring of staff over 62. For senior staff, most are armed with only a diploma and they are drawing a gross pay of about $6K gross per month (inclusive of bonuses). For senior management level, they are drawing even more. So what happens? Many of these senior personnel know they will not be hired at this rate any where else, hence all wants to continue working. However, even though they are experienced and very knowledgeable, they become very complacent, lazy, and arrogant. They are always staus quo and do not take risk, and they feel any junior staff that is young and outspoken is a treat to them.

The line between senior level and junior level becomes a blur as both levels are doing almost the same things. Management chooses to include contracted seniors as part of the total staff. So what happens? In the workplace, you have to have a good balance of seniors and juniors, however, as the seniors are not leaving, the juniors are not getting promoted even when they meet all the necessary criterias. HR's reason is you cannot have a whole place of seniors as this increases payload, and as a result, ,many young locals are leaving, making the organization very top heavy, which reduces profits and welfare for the staff. Solution: locals want to leave right? Hire more foreigners!

I leave it up to you guys as to whether the senior pilots deserve the pay cut. I think to be fair, all cases should be case by case, as the pilots must also realize, much like the situation I mnetioned, they are dealing with lives here. A small health problem, like diabetes, may cause a pilot to go hypoglycemic, faint, and endanger the lives of the passengers, much less the fact nowadays the communication in the engine room is very chaotic (foreigner engineers unable to understand each other)...a good solution, imho, is to allow the pilots to fly less flights (like part-timers), but getting the same rate of pay...

 

[eatshitndie]

Quote from Wikipedia: Autopilots in modern complex aircraft are three-axis and generally divide a flight into taxi, takeoff, ascent, level, descent, approach and landing phases. Autopilots exist that automate all of these flight phases except the taxiing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot

in the future, most aircraft will be pilotless... as we have seen in military aircraft. even the topgun dominated us navy have started trials on bomber drones taking off and landing on carriers - which i think is a great combo. one caveat. the drones are still controlled by humans on the carrier, and they are way smaller than conventional fighter-bomber aircraft.

the problem with commercial aircraft going pilotless all the way is public acceptance and the perception of flight safety in times of an emergency or malfunction, especially for huge jets. it can be done today with military-type avionics and technology - cost will go up. and it still needs steady hands at the remote controls. if passengers are given a free flight today on a pilotless commercial liner, i like to see a show of hands.

(no hands and no volunteers)

case closed.

 

[deforce]

If pilot think theirs salary is low. They may leave/resign. If too many leave sure SIA will increase the salary.
If no one willing to resign then that mean salary still good.

Wow... by that standards, the aunties in Macdonalds must be paid very well for them to stay and work.

For goodness sake, the guys have families to feed and bills to pay. If you think pilots are over paid, why don't you boycott taking planes altogether? The modern pilots drive japanese cars and live in HDB flats or maybe small condos.

Our pilots do a darn good job of making sure you get to your destination in one piece. Can't say the same about a whole host of professions like housing agents and and bankers. Do lousy jobs and still get paid even more. What about our ministers? Flood downtown and still get uber bonus?

Get a life and a reality check pls?

 

[deforce]

Seems like there is alot of friction between the management & the pilots over conditions & pay.

Been reading that there is a shortage of pilots . Wonder why the pilots choose to fly with SIA. Can't they just join another airline like Emirates which is expanding their fleet?

It's not so easy. It requires a lot for someone to move. People have families. A typical Singaporean in SIA begins his career as a trainee at the min age of 26. Some come in when they are in their 30s. The training takes about 4 -5 years currently, so by the time our men (who have been sidelined due to National Service requirements) check out as First Officers, most will be in their 30s or some even approaching 40. That's when they start a 7yr bond with SIA.

If you need a career to start a family, then thats when it's going to start. How can one just uproot the family just to go Emirates? It's not a short term thing. You cannot just leave and expect that SIA will pick you up sometime in the future. Sadly, the aviation industry doesn't work that way.

 

[Forvendet]

I think pilotless military aircrafts e.g. spyplanes, are not totally auto-piloted. They should be on some kind of ground to satellite remote control still with a man behind the panels, just not on board, no?

 

[guy-uninterrupted]

[QUOTE=lockeliberal;670351]Dear Tracy

I will add another hidden agenda of ALPA and its all about money and privelage. The question is simple.....Why do they not fight for an increase in the retirement age from 62 to 65 but instead fight for retirement at 62 but with same pay and privelages.

Locke[/QUOTE]
I think you are the one who is out of touch with reality.How did you know that the pilots want to retire at 62 and still want to retain their pay package? where is this in the union and press statements?

Well, let me bring you down to earth from your high horse mr locke. It is the COMPANY that wants to mandate the retirement age to 62 and then re-employ the pilots at the starting salary!It is not the pilots intention to retire at 62 and get the same salary package till they are 65. And guess what, the pilots are not averse to taking a pay cut but just dont chop off their legs from underneath them.How do you justify an $8000salary cut without any reduction in job scope?

Mind you,the job is different from that of any other whereby you can reduce work take a back seat and enjoy your twilight years.

I think it is govt lackeys like you that keep them in power despite what you so falsely portray yourself as. Perhaps we have a wolf in sheeps clothing here..

 

[deforce]

As a fare-paying frequent flyer on SIA, I will agree with SIA if they reduced airfares too by 20% if I am flying on a plane with a senior pilot at the stick.

Not to be disrespectful, if you find that 20% too much to pay, then perhaps AirAsia or Garuda would suit you better.

Everyone wants to be paid more, and pay less for what they consume. But it's not the way things work. You want inexperienced rookies at the helm? I wonder if your company pays you less every year you work.

 

[deforce]

in the future, most aircraft will be pilotless... as we have seen in military aircraft. even the topgun dominated us navy have started trials on bomber drones taking off and landing on carriers - which i think is a great combo. one caveat. the drones are still controlled by humans on the carrier, and they are way smaller than conventional fighter-bomber aircraft.

the problem with commercial aircraft going pilotless all the way is public acceptance and the perception of flight safety in times of an emergency or malfunction, especially for huge jets. it can be done today with military-type avionics and technology - cost will go up. and it still needs steady hands at the remote controls. if passengers are given a free flight today on a pilotless commercial liner, i like to see a show of hands.

(no hands and no volunteers)

case closed.

I hope you do know what the autopilot does, and what the jobscope of the pilot is. However, judging from your comments, I would think not.

Military A/C do not seek permission to fly from place to place. They do so without regard for safety. It is precisely for safety that is why there are no pilots for drone A/C. Drones are normally sent for missions deemed too dangerous. If everything could be automated (and it most definitely can), then why have large A'C carriers with personnel onboard? Why not fill our airforce and navies with drone warriors. Fill our tanks with automated drivers. Matter of fact, it can't be done. It is not precise, it is not safe, and it is not economical.

 

[Agent AoS]

I think you are the one who is out of touch with reality.How did you know that the pilots want to retire at 62 and still want to retain their pay package? where is this in the union and press statements?

Well, let me bring you down to earth from your high horse mr locke. It is the COMPANY that wants to mandate the retirement age to 62 and then re-employ the pilots at the starting salary!It is not the pilots intention to retire at 62 and get the same salary package till they are 65. And guess what, the pilots are not averse to taking a pay cut but just dont chop off their legs from underneath them.How do you justify an $8000salary cut without any reduction in job scope?

Mind you,the job is different from that of any other whereby you can reduce work take a back seat and enjoy your twilight years.

I think it is govt lackeys like you that keep them in power despite what you so falsely portray yourself as. Perhaps we have a wolf in sheeps clothing here..

Great follow up .
Government will rather hire more of internet brigades to dispel the idea .
Than allow your salary to improve with time .

 

[deforce]

my pilot friends told me it is a breeze to fly airplanes now, unlike those earlier days where they have to manually fly the aircraft...in fact planes can be flown pilotless ...that's how easy it is

There can only be two conclusions drawn from this statement.

(1) You do not have friends who are pilots and you fabricated this statement.

(2) You do have friends who claim to be pilots but are not and they fabricated this statement.

Just like cruise control in a car, the autopilot takes over the mundane task of manually controlling the aircraft. Instead, now the computer acts as a medium for the pilot to control the plane. Airplane cockpits used to have 4 ppl namely two pilots, a flight engineer and a navigator. Now the tasks have been pushed to a 2-man crew operation with more complex systems.

For a pilot to maintain his license, he has to (a) undergo one medical a year and pass (b) undergo 2 checks a year in the simulator demonstrating his skills at handling failures such as engine failures and testing his decision making and motor skills (c) undergo checks when deemed necessary so as to verify that standard operating procedures are adhered to on a day to day basis (d) any other tests or exercises deemed necessary to 'maintain' the pilot's skill level.

Pilots are not just paid to land the plane or do the takeoff or just to sit there and tell grandmother stories. Pilots are paid to make on the spot decisions, helping save on fuel and time, and getting passengers to their destination safely and in as comfortable a manner as they can. When winds exceed the demonstrated limits, it comes down to the pilot to land the plane. Passengers do not see it though sometimes they might feel it as a hard bump on the landing. Pilots do not have the luxury of time in making decisions. And that's why they are paid the sums they are paid.

 

[TracyTan866]

There can only be two conclusions drawn from this statement.

(1) You do not have friends who are pilots and you fabricated this statement.

(2) You do have friends who claim to be pilots but are not and they fabricated this statement.

These are friends whom I know for many years..whose cockpit I hv visited when they were fllying........

so I conclude that that there are more than two conclusions..besides the two you mentioned, another conclusion is you dont know enough of what you talked abt

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Guy

The airline pilot pay system is based on seniority and rank with one's pay growing with age as illustrated by the "aged" company defined by another samster. In the US the raising of the mandatory flying age from 62 to 65 was opposed by a major airline pilots association because it meant lesser opportunities for younger pilots to move up the pecking order gaining rank senoirity and hence pay.

What ALPA wants is for the pilots to retire at 62 but carry on with the increments accruing to them because it was gained by moving up through the rank system whilst the younger pilots can move faster to earn the same increments.

Note ALPA is not not I repeat asking for raising the Mandatory Retirement Age to 65 as per FAA and ICAO. The question is why ?



Locke

 

[Lee5604]

.

For a pilot to maintain his license, he has to (a) undergo one medical a year and pass (b) undergo 2 checks a year in the simulator demonstrating his skills at handling failures such as engine failures and testing his decision making and motor skills (c) undergo checks when deemed necessary so as to verify that standard operating procedures are adhered to on a day to day basis (d) any other tests or exercises deemed necessary to 'maintain' the pilot's skill level.

A pilot's licence is valid for six months renewable with a medical check every six months followed by a check ride evey six months.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[deforce]

A pilot's licence is valid for six months renewable with a medical check every six months followed by a check ride evey six months.

Just my two cents worth.

4 For the issue of a professional pilot licence, an applicant is required to undergo another initial medical if he did not renew the validity of his medical certificate for a period in excess of 12 months after the expiry of the initial medical examination. Exemption to this requirement may be granted by the CAMB on a case by case basis.

5 The validity period of a professional pilot licence is based upon the medical examination, which has been assessed as "fit" by the CAMB. The period of the medical validity is 12 months. In the case of a holder of a CPL or an ATPL who is 40 years of age or more on the date of his medical examination and is engaged in single-crew public transport of passengers, his CPL or ATPL will be valid for 6 months.

Both are taken from the Singapore Air Safety Publication in 2006. Most commercial pilots operate in a multi-crew environment, not single crew.

Cheers bro

 

[deforce]

These are friends whom I know for many years..whose cockpit I hv visited when they were fllying........

so I conclude that that there are more than two conclusions..besides the two you mentioned, another conclusion is you dont know enough of what you talked abt

Sadly, that must have been years ago at the very least? Since 9/11 or rather bout a decade back, no one has been able to visit cockpits. If you have, either you are a staff working in the airline (which contradicts the very safety policies put in place), or have violated the law alongst with your friends.

I am very sure that I know what I am talking about. I work in one.

 

[Windsor]

Pilots are not just paid to land the plane or do the takeoff or just to sit there and tell grandmother stories. Pilots are paid to make on the spot decisions, helping save on fuel and time, and getting passengers to their destination safely and in as comfortable a manner as they can. When winds exceed the demonstrated limits, it comes down to the pilot to land the plane. Passengers do not see it though sometimes they might feel it as a hard bump on the landing. Pilots do not have the luxury of time in making decisions. And that's why they are paid the sums they are paid.

While I will not argue about the complexity of the modern aircraft, your argument does not explain why being more complex, there is now only 2 instead of 4 in the cockpit. It is not so much the complexity insomuch as the simplicity of flying a modern aircraft, thus removing the need of a flight engineer and a navigator.

As for the grandmother stories, of course during the flight, their eyes are always glancing on the instruments and out of the windows and making small adjustments pn the controls as it is on autopilot. Once in a while they might make some flight checks, and record some information. Why I know is because I flew a few times on the jumpseat in the cockpit.