Sad news just in:: SDP has just withdrawing from the by-election

[Fook Seng]

it's asking too much for the Opposition leaders to fight the revolution and leave it to another team of people to reap the fruits of their labor. every human action is motivated by self interest above everything else.

Sun Yat Sen gave up the presidency for appearance's sake. either he gave up the presidency or Yuan Shikai's army would annihilate the revolutionaries.

If there is nobody to plant the seed and water the plant, how to expect the tree to grow tall enough to bear fruits? It takes a long time and we not talking about just one tree. Old timers should remember the story of John Appleseed.

People who take up the role of revolutionary fathers know what their mission is and they will be recorded in the annals of their parties as the founding fathers. Money may not be everything as there are many other things outside of politics to make that money and more.

That miserable $16k is hardwork for an opposition member to earn, it takes many years to smell it and a lot of sweat. A middle management role in an MNC can easily get you this. You may say how about Million Dollar Ministers? To wait 17 years for that Million Dollar which may or may not come, is that worth it? Anyway one of the parties' plan is to reduce this compensation to something like just a few hundred thousand. The attraction, money wise, is even worse. So looking for financial reward in being PM or as a member of the cabinet after such a long wait is not a very smart, long term move.

On the other hand, if you are only looking for fame, for leaving a mark in the historical annals of Singapore, yes that is a reasonable reward. For that, you don't need to be PM and the name of revolutionary leader is even more significant. If I have the ability and time is on my side I would go for it and I believe there are political leaders here who will be quite happy to earn that.

If you want financial gratification join the PAP. It is rewarding and straightaway, without having to struggle much.

 

[zhihau]

If I have the ability and time is on my side I would go for it and I believe there are political leaders here who will be quite happy to earn that.

often wondered how would we be judged in future: a bunch of anonymous lunatics raving in the cyber world? :p:p:p

 

[Fook Seng]

often wondered how would we be judged in future: a bunch of anonymous lunatics raving in the cyber world? :p:p:p

I only hope we will not be mistaken for Anonymous.

 

[zhihau]

I only hope we will not be mistaken for Anonymous.

there's a greater chance that we'd all be forgotten

 

[Fook Seng]

there's a greater chance that we'd all be forgotten

Why? Do you want to be a revolutionary father?

 

[zhihau]

Why? Do you want to be a revolutionary father?

just stating a fact that most of us would be forgotten, and yah, me is no che guevara :p:p:p

 

[Fook Seng]

Yes but our system is very clear. You win an election, you take power. And anyway which army are they going to send in? In Singapore everybody is the army. In a way Singapore system is very good. Yes, some people in the opposition will be kingmakers, and some others will be kings. But as a whole, the opposition revolts, and the opposition takes power. You topple somebody from power, you are the one who has to take over. Right now in opposition politics I hear a lot of the "toppling over" part, but comparatively little about the "taking over" part.

What I was saying is that since it is likely we are talking of at least 13 years from now ( GE 2016 - one-third seats, still a tall order; GE 2021 - a PAP led coalition; GE 2026 - an Opposition led coalition), where a full coalition government can take place, many of the older leaders will be too old to lead in government and will have to give way to a younger set of leaders. Between here and then, with each passing election, how seriously are we to consider "taking over" will be evident from the results and I believe the party with the most likelihood of promotion to coalition leader would know when to pull in people with ministerial quality. Good people will also automatically be attracted to that party. I don't believe you will be caught by surprise landed with a government job. It takes a longer time than that and the above time-table is a very optimistic one.

As I tried to argue in another post, even obtaining one-third seats in the coming GE would be a challenge. It means all the major opposition parties must achieve similar performance as the WP in GE 2011 and the WP to achieve a couple of % points better to compensate for laggers from the smaller parties. In other words, SDP, SSP and NSP all achieving the same performance as WP in 2011. If you look at the internal problems facing opposition parties today, this will be an uphill task in a short three years.

There are a lot of things that need to be done. Getting the right potential candidates in is only a small part. It has to start immediately by dividing the territories and developing the ground. I believe winning an election based purely on the quality of the candidate is now a thing of the past. I believe the PAP understands this very well, having suffered some notable defeats with superior candidates.

 

[sleaguepunter]

There are a lot of things that need to be done. Getting the right potential candidates in is only a small part. It has to start immediately by dividing the territories and developing the ground. I believe winning an election based purely on the quality of the candidate is now a thing of the past. I believe the PAP understands this very well, having suffered some notable defeats with superior candidates.

i agree. as much as quality of the candidates is important, the party logo they contest under become more important nowsaday. no point choosing a highly qualified candidate who is under an useless ot tainted party. ppl who trust the party more than the candidate as proved by YSL incident. an uncle with a small biz trounced a former head of CID in hougang BE.

 

[liangshan]

What is RP? It is widely viewed as a one-person outfit, with waves of good people having left it just weeks before the last GE.
Do those who left it speak to that one person?

Yes I am aware RP is quite useless in grooming more candidates. But I wouldn't write them off like that. The NSP candidates who left are probably as power-hungry as he is.

 

[ray_of_hope]

Yes I am aware RP is quite useless in grooming more candidates. But I wouldn't write them off like that. The NSP candidates who left are probably as power-hungry as he is.

I would not call any of them power-hungry. It seemed to me to be a simple matter where a group of people could not work with one person. So, who is in the wrong? The group?

 

[metalmickey]

As I tried to argue in another post, even obtaining one-third seats in the coming GE would be a challenge. It means all the major opposition parties must achieve similar performance as the WP in GE 2011 and the WP to achieve a couple of % points better to compensate for laggers from the smaller parties. In other words, SDP, SSP and NSP all achieving the same performance as WP in 2011. If you look at the internal problems facing opposition parties today, this will be an uphill task in a short three years.

There are a lot of things that need to be done. Getting the right potential candidates in is only a small part. It has to start immediately by dividing the territories and developing the ground. I believe winning an election based purely on the quality of the candidate is now a thing of the past. I believe the PAP understands this very well, having suffered some notable defeats with superior candidates.

It will not be that much of a challenge to get 1/3 of the seats. As you have said, the PAP suffers notable defeats with superior candidates. That tells me that as long as you can see that the opposition candidates are not fools, if the ground sentiment against the PAP is strong enough, the opposition candidates will be voted in.

That means that there is a race between two processes. The first is the process of opposition people getting into parliament. It is true that walking the ground helps, and it is true that having quality people helps. But the main factor here is how upset the people are with the PAP. And this is out of control of the opposition parties.

The other process is how the opposition gets ready to assume power. This process is slowed down because the PAP is constantly trying to fix the opposition. Yes it is important for the opposition to pull in the people with ministerial capability, but as of now, the PAP controls the government, and through Temasek and GIC it also controls much of our economy. And since much of the economy is in the hands of MNCs, where are you going to get your top people from?

There are a lot of instances where people have taken power and they're not qualified. Mao Zedong was not qualified to lead China. The french revolution was pretty romantic at first until they started executing everybody. It's easy to scrutinise the PAP because they're already there. Scrutinising the opposition is more difficult.

It's hard to see how fast the opposition can prepare themselves to take power, but they have to work fast. 17 years is not a lot of time.

There is a discussion going on at the other thread that touches on how the opposition can best manage their own talent.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?140887-Marginalised-Politicians-Wasted-Potential