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Reply to Porfirio Rubirosa about STINKO Ng E Jay

Porfirio Rubirosa

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Darkcloud and Buddhist Bob, read and please cry over your spilt milk:rolleyes::biggrin:


Messages of unity, change and remembrance
Friday, 02 January 2009
The flames burn brightly
Singapore Democrats


"It was the most meaningful and enjoyable NYE's countdown I ever had in my life yesterday," said one participant at the Hong Lim Park Countdown organised by the Singapore Democrats, the first of its kind in Singapore.

There were no big-name artistes, no strobe lights and glittering costumes. But it was a night of fun tinged with sadness; of grim reality mixed with hope. It was one of those events that allowed participants to share the pride of being part of cause that would take us well beyond 2008.



Tribute to JBJ

One focus of the evening was the tribute to the J B Jeyaretnam. Speakers -- some invited, some impromptu -- spoke of JBJ's lion-heartedness and his passion for democracy. Mr Ng Teck Siong who chairs the Reform Party spoke of how the late founder and leader of his party always spoke up for society's poor.

His legacy grows
Veteran oppositionist Mr Jufrie Mahmood, recounted his days with Jeyaretnam and said that the best way to continue JBJ's legacy was to ensure that we pushed hard to free Singapore from the clutches of the Lee family.

Financial activist, Mr Tan Kin Lian, said he regretted not knowing JBJ. He told the audience that he had misunderstood the man until he read Jeyaretnam's books. He spoke of the sacrifices Jeyaretnam made and said that they should not be in vain.

Mr Kenneth Jeyaretnam also paid tribute to his father, adding that Singapore remains in the grip of authoritarianism while its rulers create the myth that it is an economic miracle under the PAP. Speaking as an economist, he said Singapore was already a success at the time of its independence, way ahead of its neighbours. He cited other East Asian economies such as South Korea and Taiwan that have flourished both economically as well as politically. But this cannot be said of Singapore.


Change and opposition unity

Other speakers called for continued efforts to open up the country. National Solidarity Party president, Mr Sebastian Teo, called on all Singaporeans to do their part and to make 2009 politically significant.

Sebastian Teo
Echoing his call for change was party colleague and former Non-Constituency Member of Parliament, Mr Steve Chia, who recounted how the PAP changed Parliamentary rules to limit the number of written questions a member could ask in one sitting after the NCMP asked one too many for the PAP's liking.

A couple of speakers such as prominent blogger, Mr Ng E-Jay, and film producer, Mr Ho Choon Hiong, called for greater opposition cooperation to present a united alternative to the PAP. (Read Ng E-jay's speech here.)

SDP chairman, Mr Gandhi Ambalam, then stepped up to say that the Singapore Democrats stood ready to work with anyone, including all political parties and NGOs, to bring about democratic change.

He reminded the audience that while the SDP was committed to change through democratic elections, it was the PAP that made it impossible for change to be effected through the ballot box by continuing to manipulate the electoral process. He added that over and above taking part in elections, nonviolent action was necessary to bring about reform so that the people can exercise their right to vote freely and fairly.

More voice

The arts community also had its say in the evening. Writer, Singapore Literature Prize winner and gay activist, Mr Ng Yi-Sheng, captivated the audience as he recited a poem from his collection. The cool night air did nothing to obscure the poetic anguish of Mr Ng's writing.



The Audience

One day they will come for us:
the foolish ones, the intellectuals.
One day we will burn
like scrolls in Alexandria.

One day they will break down the gatesGandhi Ambalam

of our black box operas and ateliers.
Rip the masks from our faces
and the angklungs from our hands.

Listen,
they've sacked a museum,
outlawed an Aztec epic.
They've dynamited an Afghan Buddha,
a Dutch Madonna,
censored a film.

Listen,
the Khmer Rouge just called;
they want to take your photo.
The revolution must always devour
her brightest children.

Tonight you may sleep with them,
eat of their festivals, drink of their mooncake,
engineer their Moscow mausoleums -
but never forget:

One day, they will come,
a mighty parade, in a stadium built of our bones.
Open your mouth and sing:

it has always happened,

it has not happened, yet.

Poetry under the stars: Ng Yi-Sheng
Artist and activist Mr Seelan Palay urged the audience to get involved in social and political activism in order to bring about change. His impassioned speech called on everyone not to idly sit by while reform was urgently needed.

In his speech Mr Ho Choon Hiong defended the use of ciivil disobedience as a political tool. He reminded tose listening of Mr Martyn See's defiance of the Films Act which ultimately led to the easing of curbs to the production of political films in Singapore.

Ms Jaslyn Go, the evening's co-MC with Mr John Tan, spoke defiantly of standing up to the Government despite the threat of political retaliation. Her valour earned her a round of appreciative applause.

Also present were Singapore People's Party chairman Mr Sin Kek Tong who had to leave early.

Free Singapore

Following the speeches, an unmistakable message was sent from the ground up -- literally. Participants helped to light up a giant display of candles spelling the words "FREE SINGAPORE". Camera flashes were seen from the windows of the nearby Furama Hotel which overlooked the park.

Minutes later, fireworks exploded over the Marina Bay. As the pyrotechnics faded from the sky and merrymakers made their way home, many filing through the Speakers' Corner, the candles continued to burn. The message will not be extinguished.

Poignantly, a few homeless folks appeared in the shelter of the adjoining Community Club. Out came their plastic bags and cardboard boxers, as they bedded in for the New Year. We trudged over with our Democracy Dogs and buns. "No, no, two is enough, I can't finish all of these and they'll be wasted," one of them said in Hokkien as he gratefully accepted the food.

Soon a few more showed up and ate with us in the wee hours of New Year's Day. One stuffed a few buns into a small plastic bag and rode away on his bicycle. As our ministers toast another year of bountiful earnings, for these Singaporeans 2008 doesn't look very different from 2009.
 

cleareyes

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Looks like SDP is going on the path of political militants. very soon, it would go on the extreme and become violent as well.
 

lockeliberal

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Dear Porifirio

Ghandi is talking and spin doctoring through both sides of his face. The SDP has given up on elections full stop as declared on their website and on their aims goals and section entitled how we will get there. What he means by above and beyond is that civil disobedience take primacy over elections as a means of democratic change.




Locke
 

leetahbar

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porfi,
when they said u r lo soh, they are very right! you are super lo soh!

it's new year eve celebration and not a death anniversary of JBJ. what did SDP exploiting the good name of JBJ to celebrate a ny? didn't it seem kind of strange?

sdp hid a devious mindgame at playing on peasants' emotion. are u being played into that warped sentimental?

by the way, if jasyln's words are near even half the truth, pigs can really fly!:smile: recall her parking offence and blaming the parking law at fault but not her action. dig that!
 

leetahbar

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Dear Porifirio

Ghandi is talking and spin doctoring through both sides of his face. The SDP has given up on elections full stop as declared on their website and on their aims goals and section entitled how we will get there. What he means by above and beyond is that civil disobedience take primacy over elections as a means of democratic change.




Locke

if civil disobedience is synonymous to as "breaking the law" and then relating being arrested as "FREE SINGAPORE", i m afraid chee's yelling "FIX SINGAPORE" appeared more intended than disguised.
 

guavatree

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if civil disobedience is synonymous to as "breaking the law" and then relating being arrested as "FREE SINGAPORE", i m afraid chee's yelling "FIX SINGAPORE" appeared more intended than disguised.

bapok kum-lan-jiao Bob Sim Kheng Hwee

haven't you PAP Dogs got SINGAPORE FIXED and is continuing FIXING SINGAPORE?
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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Why are you so concerned when Kenneth himself turned up to talk and also a pen a note of thanks to Dr Chee and SDP:rolleyes:

it's new year eve celebration and not a death anniversary of JBJ. what did SDP exploiting the good name of JBJ to celebrate a ny? didn't it seem kind of strange?
 
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Porfirio Rubirosa

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Perhaps you have a point Bro. But to me I am more curious to know why Dr Chee and SDP have finally turned out at Hong Lim post PAP liberalisation, and what is the effect if any?

Dear Porifirio

Ghandi is talking and spin doctoring through both sides of his face. The SDP has given up on elections full stop as declared on their website and on their aims goals and section entitled how we will get there. What he means by above and beyond is that civil disobedience take primacy over elections as a means of democratic change.




Locke
 

lockeliberal

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Dear PF

Next batch of TBT protestors will have the full legal book and kitchen sink thrown at them now that there is a "legitimate" form or venue for demonstrations. The PAP liberalization serves as legitimacy for more serious legal action against protestors in the future. For example "resisting arrest" is a criminal offense and not a misdemenor miscellanous act which is what illegal assembly is. "Locking arms " in the TBT protest constitutes de facto resisting arrest and I really wonder how many of the current batch have the stomach to go to jail under a serious criminal charge

The SDP turn out at Hong Lim reinforces to its supporters what it achieves. Events held there remind those supporting those arrested and those arrested about the righteousness of their cause and the need for unity in the struggle. Some may find the guitar playing for the released prisoners at QRP hilarious but there is serious psychological support and reinforcement at work here. It reinforces for these people the them versus us mentality, and legitimises and celebrates their decision to deliberately break the laws they disagree with.

That reinforcement will serve the SDP in its escalation of its civil disobedience. The little the PAP gives will not be enough and will serve to encourage those who are convinced that more committed civil disobedience will bring better results.

In terms of the news and creating news, Dr Chee protesting and getting arrested for protesting is old news and no news. The media needs a consistent flow of new things to report and repeat and the SDP's strategy tells me they are fully aware of it. The protest must escalate in order to create news and pressure and the numbers to must increase, hence the hong lim events.




Locke
 
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leetahbar

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Why are you so concerned when Kenneth himself turned up to talk and also a pen a note of thanks to Dr Chee and SDP:rolleyes:

why didn't u ask "did Philip turn up"? or maybe JBJ's doting grandson turning up too?

just like many of the peasants who were there. the intention was for the free dogs & buns. who care who speaketh what. the same old tune re-arranged in R&B just like the way they disgraced those original john lenon's number.

peer deeper and see clearer:smile:
 

leetahbar

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Dear PF

Next batch of TBT protestors will have the full legal book and kitchen sink thrown at them now that there is a "legitimate" form or venue for demonstrations. The PAP liberalization serves as legitimacy for more serious legal action against protestors in the future. For example "resisting arrest" is a criminal offense and not a misdemenor miscellanous act which is what illegal assembly is. "Locking arms " in the TBT protest constitutes de facto resisting arrest and I really wonder how many of the current batch have the stomach to go to jail under a serious criminal charge

The SDP turn out at Hong Lim reinforces to its supporters what it achieves. Events held there remind those supporting those arrested and those arrested about the righteousness of their cause and the need for unity in the struggle. Some may find the guitar playing for the released prisoners at QRP hilarious but there is serious psychological support and reinforcement at work here. It reinforces for these people the them versus us mentality, and legitimises and celebrates their decision to deliberately break the laws they disagree with.

That reinforcement will serve the SDP in its escalation of its civil disobedience. The little the PAP gives will not be enough and will serve to encourage those who are convinced that more committed civil disobedience will bring better results.

In terms of the news and creating news, Dr Chee protesting and getting arrested for protesting is old news and no news. The media needs a consistent flow of new things to report and repeat and the SDP's strategy tells me they are fully aware of it. The protest must escalate in order to create news and pressure and the numbers to must increase, hence the hong lim events.




Locke

chee always exaggerates his prowessness and popularity. in the actual picture of his "supporters" presence, it is always clear - the same pathetic group of clowns that doesn't need much effort to count the number there.
 

one2unite

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Perhaps you have a point Bro. But to me I am more curious to know why Dr Chee and SDP have finally turned out at Hong Lim post PAP liberalisation, and what is the effect if any?

It looks like PAP spin doctors are out in force to distort what SDP's stand is as far as elections are concerned. SDP has never been against elections per se. All that SDP is against is the trickery of the dictatorial PAP in using its sham, fraudulent elections conducted by a department under its jackboot to justify its illegal hold on power. It's like claiming that NTUC is the labour movement when it is clearly not.

The SDP wants electoral reform/change and so are the RP, NSP and SPP whose leaders turned up at its NYE's countdown. Of course PAP apologists, charlatans and fakes on the pay of the PAP would be comfortable and supportive of the humbug electoral system that the despotic PAP has put in place to perpetuate its stranglehold on power.
 
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Porfirio Rubirosa

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Chua Lee Hoong's specific deliberate references to SDP in her latest ST spin piece of the new year and now the deliberate considered full weight signals sent out by all the establishment legal bigwigs on Sat perhaps indicates the battle lines drawn by both sides for 2009. It reminds me of battle formations of old dating back to Greek wars and 18th century battles, but in this case a david vs goliath albeit probably without the 'happy ending' in the foreseeable future.

Btw did you see one of the kangaroo trio punch his fist in the air and shout "Merdeka" when he was released from QRP?:biggrin:

Oh and appreciate your insight to my questions Bro.:smile:


Dear PF

Next batch of TBT protestors will have the full legal book and kitchen sink thrown at them now that there is a "legitimate" form or venue for demonstrations...

In terms of the news and creating news, Dr Chee protesting and getting arrested for protesting is old news and no news. The media needs a consistent flow of new things to report and repeat and the SDP's strategy tells me they are fully aware of it. The protest must escalate in order to create news and pressure and the numbers to must increase, hence the hong lim events.




Locke
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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The point I was making to you hypocrite Buddhist Bob was in respect to your lame distorted pathetic attempt at trying to question Dr Chee and SDP of allegedly making use of JBJ's reputation when in fact that clearly is not the case as seen by Kenneth's active participation in the event.:wink::rolleyes:

Yup "see clearer" only your hypocrisy Buddhist Bob:wink: :rolleyes:

why didn't u ask "did Philip turn up"? or maybe JBJ's doting grandson turning up too?

peer deeper and see clearer
 
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Porfirio Rubirosa

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So hypocrite Buddhist Bob, how do explain the presence of say Tan Kin Lian, Kenneth Jeyaratnam, Ng Teck Siong, Sebastian Teo, Steve Chia, Sin Kek Tiong, Andrew Loh and even our own Ramseth then?:rolleyes:

chee always exaggerates his prowessness and popularity. in the actual picture of his "supporters" presence, it is always clear - the same pathetic group of clowns that doesn't need much effort to count the number there.
 

one2unite

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Chua Lee Hoong's specific deliberate references to SDP in her latest ST spin piece of the new year and now the deliberate considered full weight signals sent out by all the establishment legal bigwigs on Sat perhaps indicates the battle lines drawn by both sides for 2009.

What battle lines are these but the same old ruthless and oppressive tactics of a totalitarian regime that is always afraid of giving the people their rights to vote in a free, fair and independent election?

Using the same old running dogs in the 154th ranked propaganda tool and relying heavily on its kangaroo judiciary are the only vulgar acts known to the tottering regime that uses money to buy the loyalties of sycophants and apologists, including the couple of approved opposition allowed into LKY's rubber stamp parliament.

The cowardice PAP and its charlatans and fakes are not in favour of changing/reforming the electoral system that is deliberately kept in place to hoodwink the electorate, fix the opposition and engineer election results.

The despotic PAP is in control of every institution and organ of the state, including the judiciary, the elections department and the media.

The autocratic PAP is relying on corruption, nepotism and cronyism to put down growing resentment of the people to its bankrupt patronage politics. But like any other dictatorship, the PAP cannot escape from its inevitable doom.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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A fresh perspective from a TOC forumer perhaps?

61) pundek on January 3rd, 2009 2.15 am Main problem with opposition is they cannot seem to attract the thinking crowd. You always need the thinkers behind you in whatever you do. Even PAP knows this. Bc behind the thinkers are the $ ppl. So the real question is not whether we should all consider supporting the opposition, what are you talking abt? but rather the opposition should go all out to woo the thinkers and not expect them to just step forward on their own accord. Thats unrealistic. It doesnt work that way. Never did and never will. Not even PAP expects it to work that way. As it is the opposition is so caught up with behaving like a primadonna outfit just like PAP. No wonder most of the thinkers r staying sidelined. With thinkers it is not easy. You cannot force them to conform. You rub them the wrong way. Or if they smell your logic is shaky. They will F u and that is that. You like or not, thats your problem. They will not break bread with you. But with thinkers, it is also easy peasy. You dont need to deal with 100 ppl, all you need to do is get a handful of key people in your pocket and the rest will follow, bc thinkers like to talk between themselves. They move like schools of fish. One leads all follows. Not like a rambling mob that goes here and there and bump into the walls. Even if you dont see them talking it doesnt mean they are not talking, it just means they are talking abt you in some place where they dont want you to know about. That is how sly thinkers r and how organized they are. They are always one step ahead of you, even when you lead it is bc they allow you do so. the opposition needs to learn this method of recruitment, otherwise habis la
63) pundek II on January 3rd, 2009 9.11 am Why do you think it is so difficult for Tan Kin Lian to get 100K votes online? Firstly is it really so difficult to get 100K votes? No. That is easy peasy part. Can be done in a matter of days. The reason why he doesnt get it goes back to what I said abt thinkers. Remember they are sly people. They are like schools of fishes. So someone must have told them all wait and see. So they all held back.

But how many people are we talking here? Who issue out that command? Maybe less than 3 or 4.

In the world of the thinker there is no democracy. The top few decide and the others just follow. They dont even ask why.

How does the PAP engage netizens who are anti them? Simple lah. Go and put those leaders of the thinkers in their back pocket. Dont ever get into their bad books. Engage them. Then you will see they will play ball.

Then they will give out the word to the rest, let them come in and dont disturb them or else. Otherwise all they will do is boycott them, then although the PAP are talking what is the point. They are not even talking to the movers and shakers. They will refuse to break bread with you and remember what I said, there is no democracy in a thinker society. The others will see this and they too will not engage them. End result, they talk, but get nowhere. What many people dont realize isThinkers organize themselves like the mafia. What makes you think they dont take orders like the rest of us all? What makes you believe they are any different from ants who may have foot soldier and worker and even five star general ants?

But one thing is certain, dont ever expect the thinkers to come in just bc you are trying to sell them a better Singapore. They already know that story alredi. Its not going to work.
 

lockeliberal

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Dear Porifirio

I would say please examine the literature on self radicalization coupled with charismatic leaders with a total absolute unconpromising world view.

One2Unite writes like the old One2Unite and he was I believe someone senior from within the SDP. Anyways he seems adamant on insisting that the SDP believes in elections when in fact their own website literature indicates other wise.

The battle lines are drawn and I believe the next batch of TBT protestors will have the book thrown at them not just a slap on the wrists miscellanous offence deal. It is in within the SDP strategy to drag this out through the courts and through as many means as possible so as to inflict maximum political embarassment and damage on the SG Gov. Take for example how errrrr they threatened to protest outside the AGC if the people arrested under the TBT protest did not get their confiscated belongings back ( according to AG).

For me this indicates an unwillingness to coorperate in any manner with the police. I.E ok I donch like the law, I broke the law, I will go to jail protesting but still go to jail sort of attitude.

Remember U Yap and his questions on the sort of flash used ? IF viewed in that light errrr I believe the SDP protestors will go down the route even furthur with allegations of possible police unfairness, police brutality etc etc etc

Dr Chee's problem is that the easy cost free be fined and fuck off bit has been done. The next question is how many will stand with them when serious and real criminal charges are filed ? In the last protest they already tried "locking arms and resisting arrest." but got of with the lightest charge. I await with bated breathe the next escalation during the next confrontation.

Dr Chee's need is for people willing to do serious jail time ard him. Can't just be CSC Yap Ghandi and J Tan. They need fresh blood to sing the jail house rock. Viewed in that light the "merdaka" and "guitar" playing makes perfect psychological sense. Whether he gets the numbers, whether people fall out by the way side like Ng E Jay remains to be seen.





Locke
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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A more enlightened albeit somewhat ivory tower approach to Democracy evolving in Singapore.

...In Greece, democratic "disturbances" are common, ranging from general strikes to public demonstrations. The current riots, however are the worst that Greece has witnessed in decades. Contemplating the trail of damage in this birthplace of democarcy, I asked myself the question that I had always dismissed contemptuously, as I did in my 2007 book, Renaissance Singapore?: Could more democracy for Singapore actually lead to chaos, violence and destruction?

We tend to think in terms of an uncompromising trade-off between democracy and personal freedoms on the one hand, and socio-political stability and economic success on the other. Our official history memorialises the racial riots, radical movements and militant trade unions of the 1950s to 1970s, cultivating a mindset rooted in a deep sense of vulnerability and danger.

This same history emphasises Singapore's smallness and lack of resources, justifying meritocracy as the most effective way to allocate scarce talent especially for public administration and political leadership. Last year, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's argument against an unproductively adversial two-party system for Singapore was the most recent version of similar arguments advanced by the Government that Singapore does not have enough talent to waste on political competition. Meritocracy, according to this view, is a necessary alternative to the checks and balances of liberal democracy.

Also last year, there was a swell of public interest in the question of meritocracy. I argued in my article "Meritocracy and Elitism in a Global City" in International Political Science Review that Singapore's practice of meritocracy should not ignore structural inequalities that can systematically make some people more likely to succeed than others.

If giving people equal opportunities is eclipsed by a competitive and self-absorbed obsession with winning and compensation, then our meritocracy will degenerate into elitism, which can erode the cohesion of a society that is already diversifying in complicated ways.

The riots in Athens are not the result of too much democracy, but of a democracy unable to address the concerns of segments of society that have become increasingly marginalised and silenced. To prevent this from happening to Singapore, every citizen should be given a stake in matters of public importance and equal rights to be heard, without fear.

"Isegoria" is the ancient Greek word that denotes the equal right to be heard. If a democracy limits "isegoria", the silenced voices may find less legitimate and even violent avenues for mass political action. A more expansive democracy for Singapore will not increase the likehood of chaos, violence and destruction. But an elitist and unresponsive democracy that takes only some voices seriously and systematically fails to include others may one day do so.

Democracy is more than just a consultative mechanism for public policy input. It needs to evolve into an incluisve set of norms that facilitate the genuine particpation of any well-meaning citizen at any appropriate stage of the policy cycle - problem identification, information gathering, policy formulation, selection, implemenation and evaluation.

The good thing about being small and highly wired is Singapore can elicit and receive votes and views from its citizens through enhanced use of interactive media technologies. This, in fact, is where Singapore can become a global leader in harnessing and developing innovative, practical technologies for democracy.

Democracy, meanwhile, has to be learnt by doing and improved by practice. It can also be nurtured in the classroom. My students and I interact within democratic learning spaces where open-ended discussion and critical debate take the place of lectures and instructions.

In some of my courses, students are placed on semester-long attachments to civil society organisations, where they experience the life of organised activism while subjecting this experience to theoretical critique. In turn, theories and case studies discussed in the classroom are critiqued through real-life experiences.

I have also tried to nurture other skills, like the ability to advance well-supported arguments; to communicate in clear, creative and vivid ways; to give and receive criticism constructively; and to be guided by complex moral ethical compasses. In these small ways, I hope to help build personal capacities for a more sustainable democratic culture in Singapore.

Dr Kenneth Paul Tan ST 3/1
 

mustpaycashhhh

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Looks like alot of that going around:rolleyes::eek::biggrin:

Seriously though, all you guys are doing is just playing into PAPs hands at the end of the day and ironically without PAP having to even lift a finger:rolleyes::wink:


Bro, all people got eyes to see lah this Monkey Loh is a PAP people, his job is stir trouble with WP and SDP people make each other fight.
 
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