Rental and Resale (All about Rental and Resale prices in Iskandar)

[sgtsk]

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/4-steps-retrenched-pmets-must-160000959.html

pmet retrenchment statistics last year.

70% of retrenched pmet switched to service industry after 2.37 months.

is it an exaggeration to say that it ain't a real problem after looking through the article?

I think it is wise to plan for the very real possibility as you do. other's input could be noted for considerations.

 

[Tekkun]

What you say is true but the main concern is not Singaporeans who expect other countries to work as well, but more dangerous is they don't know that other countries do not work the way Singapore does....a small but significant difference.

And I thought Singapore is globally well connected? Sorry, couldn't resist. The point is do not assume anything. Check and double check.

You always start with baby steps when investing into an unknown country. You don't drive full speed on a road that is flooded with muddy water even though you thought it is only 6 inches of water, for all you know there could be a big manhole without cover.
Anyway, from my observation here, not too many are getting burnt with millions in Malaysia. At most is just a few bruises here and there. Should be ok, you will survive.

 

[winners]

In Malaysia, it is the opposite. It is based on organic growth. It grow on its own course. There's only catalyst projects to spur growth and then it is left on its own to fend itself based on supply and demand. Nothing is fixed and one has to lookout at the ever changing environment.

Aw, come on. Even the Johor Sultan wants to emulate Singapore. And recently, even the DAP wants to do the same in Penang. If you tell me that they are both very wrong, then I really can't believe if you are still a Malaysian?

I can understand yourself for defending tooth and nail over the property sector in JB because you are heavily invested in your RM1k psf unit. But still, you will need to face reality. Nobody wants to lose unnecessary money, even if 1 is super rich.

When a forumer here is already offering RM300 psf for units in PH, I wonder if he's out to take advantage of the situation (as you'd said yourself) or if it's truly the real facts? I think it should be of the latter, otherwise, he would have said his buyers are offering above RM800 psf instead. Why would he wants to talk down the valuation if he has all along been so pro PH and Medini?

 

[Tekkun]

Aw, come on. Even the Johor Sultan wants to emulate Singapore. And recently, even the DAP wants to do the same in Penang. If you tell me that they are both very wrong, then I really can't believe if you are still a Malaysian?

I can understand yourself for defending tooth and nail over the property sector in JB because you are heavily invested in your RM1k psf unit. But still, you will need to face reality. Nobody wants to lose unnecessary money, even if 1 is super rich.

When a forumer here is already offering RM300 psf for units in PH, I wonder if he's out to take advantage of the situation (as you'd said yourself) or if it's truly the real facts? I think it should be of the latter, otherwise, he would have said his buyers are offering above RM800 psf instead. Why would he wants to talk down the valuation if he has all along been so pro PH and Medini?

Penang or Johore are states of Malaysia. There are things which the States can do or cannot do. Land is one of them. The other is Federal roads and rails. Investment and financial institutions approvals are under the jurisdiction of Federal Government. Sultan can only give suggestions. The power lies in Putrajaya. I am a Malaysian and I know what is called reality.

I do not need to defend JB. If you follow my posts, I never ever mention any condos in JB that is worth buying. Not that they are bad or good, it is just I do not know what it is. I had been very consistent in saying buy freehold, buy limited land, buy seafront, do not buy limitless land, open eyes big big, etc. PH is a just holiday home for me...no plans to include it as my investment portfolio. You only lose money when you sell it. If you don't sell it, no loans to service, whats there to lose? There are many other ways of making money, property is only one of them. Hate to say this in a property forum, but it is the lowest contributor now. You do not make money out of unsold appreciated property. It just make you feel good and to gloat, but it does not swell the bank account.

Just out of curiosity, what level of investment you would consider as "heavily invested"?

If I were the fellow forummer, I would offer RM200 psf. Afterall it is hacknayed. It is a tongue in cheek statement.

 

[snowbird]

Not exactly too late. Cut losses now. Painful but rather than bleed to death years later by holding on to a depreciating liability.

Iskandar condos are not meant for investment. High risk, high uncertainty. It's for one to stay there for good. The prices are all too high with little hope of liquidity. Oversupply with lack of tenants and local buyers.

The authorities only want foreigners' money to be parked there.

The problem is even when the owner is willing to cut loss and quit, he still can't do it as easily and immediately as like one would sell off his stocks in the stock market.
In the meantime, he can just sit and wait and watch even if the property's value keep depreciating and worse would be with no takers enquiring at all.

 

[winners]

Just out of curiosity, what level of investment you would consider as "heavily invested"?

I thought you've said before that you have several properties (residential and factories) in Johor?

 

[Tekkun]

I thought you've said before that you have several properties (residential and factories) in Johor?

All over Malaysia except Johor which is PH only. I am a industrial guy.

 

[winners]

All over Malaysia except Johor which is PH only. I am a industrial guy.

Oh, then it's my bad.

 

[rotikok]

There is a big difference between Malaysia and Singapore when it come to development. Everything in Singapore is properly planned and in sequence. Its people are tuned to such approach. There's no dynamic supply and demand. Everything is determined by the Government.

In Malaysia, it is the opposite. It is based on organic growth. It grow on its own course. There's only catalyst projects to spur growth and then it is left on its own to fend itself based on supply and demand. Nothing is fixed and one has to lookout at the ever changing environment.

That's why many Singaporeans appear lost and forever complaining what should be done right or wrong. They are using their own Singapore standard for everything and cross borders as well. But in the real world, it does not happen that way. Different country do things differently. It does not mean they are right or wrong. It is that they are not used to the ways things are done.

I agree with your idea but the sample you drew out doesnt make much sense. JB was grew organically, no hype along the way, when demand outpace supply and result in price grow, developer will be out there to put more supply to the market, this apply to other part of malaysia except cyberjaya & putrajaya. These 2 areas much like medini PH, catalyst project always distort the organic growth of an area. It attract investors passion and not real users interest, supply was based on speculation, and not from fundamental needs. If grew organically, then real demand and supply would not be tuning off that much.

Sg gov do not determine residential price, it was decided by the market. And sg ppty market got 2 diff type that behave differently ie public housing and private housing. The point is, be it public or private, both do not involve in building frenzy, it is much more organic than medini/ph.

 

[rotikok]

And I thought Singapore is globally well connected........not too many are getting burnt with millions in Malaysia. At most is just a few bruises here and there. Should be ok, you will survive.

Well，whether sg the nation itself are globally connected or not has nothing to do with their kiasu investors who rush in iskandar. It seem like you are really rich, only losses amouting to millions baru feel pain, which might explain why you cant understand mpan12 kind advise to those who are not so and make a big blunder investing there. Mpan12 advise is for general folks, the rich will have other type of consideration that cant be reason by financial or investment sense. Simple analogy would be, I doesnt mind wasting a loaf of bread each day, the money that wasted really means nothing to me, and i enjoy eating bread when i want to....but such 'luxury' will deem extravagant by really poor ppl.

Why singaporean would even consider buying iskandar? some maybe because they already owned hdb, priced out from private condo...n their salary might make them sufficiently affordable for a condo unit in ph/medini, and they want to invest! Giving away big chunk of monthly income to bank, owning a money losing condo in medini, certainly every dollar counts and they are heavily invested. Either cut loss, and use the money for other better investment choice or lock in your commitment and watch the value drain away more and more, which one more sensible? If can i will cut loss and buy back when i want to live there....or rent if rental is cheap.

If everyone who bought in are using like tekkun, then confirm ghost town.

 

[Tekkun]

Why singaporean would even consider buying iskandar? some maybe because they already owned hdb, priced out from private condo...n their salary might make them sufficiently affordable for a condo unit in ph/medini, and they want to invest! Giving away big chunk of monthly income to bank, owning a money losing condo in medini, certainly every dollar counts and they are heavily invested. Either cut loss, and use the money for other better investment choice or lock in your commitment and watch the value drain away more and more, which one more sensible? If can i will cut loss and buy back when i want to live there....or rent if rental is cheap.

If everyone who bought in are using like tekkun, then confirm ghost town.

For those genuine buyers who insist to cut and run as recommended by our fellow forummers here, I can only say this. Read up your S&P, Defaults by Purchaser before doing anything.

For those who are not buyers, please read up before recommending others to cut and run. Look for Sales And Purchase agreement - Shedule H
HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (CONTROL AND LICENSING) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2015 - Housing Development (Control And Licensing) Act 1966.

 

[mpan12]

I no need to imply.
Don't forget I am a Malaysian and I know the LOCAL rules.
I am a interested party to these type of properties before.
Have you been in such transaction before in Malaysia? Are you a property buyer in Malaysia?

Hahaha... Aiyoh...Please be more humble. It doesn't matter if you are Malaysian or not. You know every 100% rule there is? You've read 100% documents for all cases? Just because certain things cannot be done for your case, are you implying it cannot be done for ALL cases?

My friend has ALREADY DONE IT. What say you???

Instead of we trying to outdo each other in terms of knowledge, which I am NOT trying to do, and I admit I don't know everything even in my own home country, why not you share what will happen if one dumps the property now to cut losses?

In case you don't know, I'm not a keyboard warrior. I share what I know and seen first hand with my own eyes. Go read my posts. I've been very consistent.

I've never said "I heard from my friend blah blah... so it must be true". When I said Medini is bare and not worth investing, I dare to do it because I went there personally myself. When I said to be extremely careful when buying Iskandar strictly for investment, I've taken all points into consideration, talked to analysts, property investors, non-property buyers, Singaporeans, Malaysians, foreigners, etc etc etc.

When I said to consider cutting losses, it's because I KNOW and have SEEN with my own eyes it was done before. So hope you can share why it cannot be done.

 

[mpan12]

Yes, they should bring in the industries and businesses first before diving so aggressively into the residential development. This should had been the norm because those early workers can settle or rent in nearby Horizon Hills, Bukit Indah, Taman Sutera and Taman Perling, which is only about 15 minutes by car. It is indeed greed by the IRDA and those developers, cashing in on the property fever prior 2013.

Take our own Jurong Town development in the 70s for example. It had started with building industries before residential. This should be the correct approach.

Anyway, don't forget that there is the Forest City coming up to compete directly with Medini and PH in the near future. I still see no light at the end of the tunnel yet.

Yes, glad you see these very important points. So that's why I said there is no proper planning. They are killing investors' money, to which an UMNO official once commented that it's their problem if they want to take such risks. Wah lao eh....

 

[mpan12]

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/4-steps-retrenched-pmets-must-160000959.html

pmet retrenchment statistics last year.

70% of retrenched pmet switched to service industry after 2.37 months.

is it an exaggeration to say that it ain't a real problem after looking through the article?

Bro you can't be serious here... what has this article got to do with buying Iskandar properties?

I applaud you for keeping up with current affairs. But let's go into the analysis slightly deeper.

Yes, I've heard some said previously that you'll never know when you'll be retrenched. So better go buy a property in Iskandar. So cheap. Then you can go there stay while renting out your HDB flat. Is that what you're thinking?

Let me quickly show you why this is a fallacy.

Consider Mr Tan, a 54 year old professional. He earned S$5k a month. He has a lovely wife not working. She looks after the family. He has 2 happy school-going teenage kids in Singapore.

Ok, so now he gets retrenched. He does a ridiculous thing. He moves to his Iskandar property and rents out his SG flat. Assume he has completely paid up his flat loan.

HDB flat rental every month: S$2,500 (very respectable amount)

Iskandar monthly bank loan for the next 25 years: S$1,200

Amount left every month: S$1,300

May I ask how is he going to provide for his family with just S$1.3k a month? Where are his kids and wife going to live anyway? Are you saying his whole family should uproot from SG and move to Iskandar as well? That is not a possibility to consider. How is he going to put food on the table for his family and give his kids good education?

When retrenchment strikes, I don't see how buying an Iskandar property now helps.

 

[mpan12]

That's why many Singaporeans appear lost and forever complaining what should be done right or wrong. They are using their own Singapore standard for everything and cross borders as well. But in the real world, it does not happen that way. Different country do things differently. It does not mean they are right or wrong. It is that they are not used to the ways things are done.

That's not a nice thing to say about Singaporeans. You are a Malaysian and you want to comment Singaporeans are "lost" and "forever complaining"? I've always considered Malaysians as friends. Please don't do this.

Just curious...Why do you say Singaporeans appear "lost"? The only thing I can say is that many of them were blinded in 2013 when they rushed in to buy Iskandar properties thinking they can make money there.

I'm very defensive when people say Singaporeans like to complain. That's rubbish. All humans like to complain. We do it in different manners only.

Malaysians don't complain meh? They held so many rallies against their politicians and PM. Europeans don't complain meh? They have strikes and they burn down buildings and loot shops. HK and Taiwanese people don't complain meh? They burn pictures of politicians they don't like. They sleep on the streets to protest. Thais don't complain meh? Have you seen China women complaining before? Oh man... I don't think you want to hear their loud voices!

No one is complaining here. I don't know about others but I think I prefer to call my postings as discussions. What is wrong to look for proper urban planning before investing in a property? The rules of good investing hold whether one is considering to invest in Johor or other cities in the world.

You already said it, you only bought PH for your own liking and use. You don't care or perhaps even know much about property investing. And with a good stash of money at hand, of course you can put your money down anywhere you want.

 

[potter]

Bro you can't be serious here... what has this article got to do with buying Iskandar properties?

I applaud you for keeping up with current affairs. But let's go into the analysis slightly deeper.

Yes, I've heard some said previously that you'll never know when you'll be retrenched. So better go buy a property in Iskandar. So cheap. Then you can go there stay while renting out your HDB flat. Is that what you're thinking?

Let me quickly show you why this is a fallacy.

Consider Mr Tan, a 54 year old professional. He earned S$5k a month. He has a lovely wife not working. She looks after the family. He has 2 happy school-going teenage kids in Singapore.

Ok, so now he gets retrenched. He does a ridiculous thing. He moves to his Iskandar property and rents out his SG flat. Assume he has completely paid up his flat loan.

HDB flat rental every month: S$2,500 (very respectable amount)

Iskandar monthly bank loan for the next 25 years: S$1,200

Amount left every month: S$1,300

May I ask how is he going to provide for his family with just S$1.3k a month? Where are his kids and wife going to live anyway? Are you saying his whole family should uproot from SG and move to Iskandar as well? That is not a possibility to consider. How is he going to put food on the table for his family and give his kids good education?

When retrenchment strikes, I don't see how buying an Iskandar property now helps.

Please ask the professional to consult Mr Frodo. Now owning 2 properties and a big car with his lovely wife and more happier sch children going to the private sch in JB. Wahaha..:p

 

[Tekkun]

That's not a nice thing to say about Singaporeans. You are a Malaysian and you want to comment Singaporeans are "lost" and "forever complaining"? I've always considered Malaysians as friends. Please don't do this.

Just curious...Why do you say Singaporeans appear "lost"? The only thing I can say is that many of them were blinded in 2013 when they rushed in to buy Iskandar properties thinking they can make money there.

I'm very defensive when people say Singaporeans like to complain. That's rubbish. All humans like to complain. We do it in different manners only.

Malaysians don't complain meh? They held so many rallies against their politicians and PM. Europeans don't complain meh? They have strikes and they burn down buildings and loot shops. HK and Taiwanese people don't complain meh? They burn pictures of politicians they don't like. They sleep on the streets to protest. Thais don't complain meh? Have you seen China women complaining before? Oh man... I don't think you want to hear their loud voices!

No one is complaining here. I don't know about others but I think I prefer to call my postings as discussions. What is wrong to look for proper urban planning before investing in a property? The rules of good investing hold whether one is considering to invest in Johor or other cities in the world.

You already said it, you only bought PH for your own liking and use. You don't care or perhaps even know much about property investing. And with a good stash of money at hand, of course you can put your money down anywhere you want.

Mpan, I do not need to add anything more to what you already know.
Since you seen how your friend had cut and run, so be it. You already had the information you seek. I do not need to share any more information here.

 

[mpan12]

Well，whether sg the nation itself are globally connected or not has nothing to do with their kiasu investors who rush in iskandar. It seem like you are really rich, only losses amouting to millions baru feel pain, which might explain why you cant understand mpan12 kind advise to those who are not so and make a big blunder investing there. Mpan12 advise is for general folks, the rich will have other type of consideration that cant be reason by financial or investment sense. Simple analogy would be, I doesnt mind wasting a loaf of bread each day, the money that wasted really means nothing to me, and i enjoy eating bread when i want to....but such 'luxury' will deem extravagant by really poor ppl.

Why singaporean would even consider buying iskandar? some maybe because they already owned hdb, priced out from private condo...n their salary might make them sufficiently affordable for a condo unit in ph/medini, and they want to invest! Giving away big chunk of monthly income to bank, owning a money losing condo in medini, certainly every dollar counts and they are heavily invested. Either cut loss, and use the money for other better investment choice or lock in your commitment and watch the value drain away more and more, which one more sensible? If can i will cut loss and buy back when i want to live there....or rent if rental is cheap.

If everyone who bought in are using like tekkun, then confirm ghost town.

Thank you. Very well-said. I'm glad you see my point and exactly how I would say it.

To get a good gauge of ghost town, one just needs to go to Medini. Go to Afiniti and 1 Medini Residences condos. That area is a ghost town.

I can imagine what some may argue -- Eh...Medini is still developing leh. Not fair to say it is a ghost town.

Then I will say please consider these facts:

- There are already many establishments there: Legoland, Gleneagles, Pinewood, universities nearby, sports stadium thingy, Medini Mall, some wellness center thingy (dunno what s*** that is though!), and I think some offices and industries, etc etc. So you can't say it's completely new. But why is it still so empty?

- Finding rental or reselling is a big problem for those condo owners

- There are more condos than any businesses

- Lots of empty land, grassland, trees, and you will see projects being delayed (ask yourself WHY???)

- 1 Medini condo was fully sold out and selling like hot cakes a few years ago. Now still so empty. Why?

When more of other condos are ready, and there are still huge plots of land everywhere, and things continue to move slowly or remain standstill, one can do their own deductions.

Maybe there are many people who are rich here. If you have S$10mil, then losing S$300k on a depreciating condo in Iskandar may not be any pain to you. I can understand that. The condo to you is just a plaything. You can easily make back the money. My advice and suggestions are for the common folks though.

Just know what you're doing. Don't put funny thoughts in your minds like, I can be retrenched, so better buy in Iskandar now.

Or never mind, I can use it as a holiday home. Are you sure? You pay S$300k and then only go back once or twice a month? What do you want to do there, anyway? Maybe if you're a retired multi-millionaire, old man nothing to do, ok lor... Go to your condo, look out of your window for hours to look at the Straits water. But if you're not in this sort of position, think again.

 

[mpan12]

He should learn from Mr Frodo years ago. Now owning 2 properties and a big car with his lovely wife and more happily sch children going to the private sch in JB. Wahaha..:p

Come on. Different people have different social conditions and lifestyle. Mr Frodo has to make sacrifices too. Nothing comes for free.

And don't forget, he is working.

The example I gave is of someone already retrenched. No job. Since that was the case brought up previously.

 

[mpan12]

Mpan, I do not need to add anything more to what you already know.
Since you seen how your friend had cut and run, so be it. You already had the information you seek. I do not need to share any more information here.

So be it then. Since you said cannot dump, I thought you might want to qualify your statement so that others can learn here.

I want to reiterate that I am speaking the truth when I said my friend has done it. So honestly, I am surprised when you said it cannot be done. Maybe it applies to certain cases. I don't know.