Regulators Refusing to Act - Hyflux & Noble Group's Decline

[JustLikeThis]

OCBC just released a report.

Key Highlights:
- Unreasonable restructuring terms, no creditor in the right mind will support.
- Proposed restructuring terms have been complex and not transparent. Hyflux should be aware that they are unlikely to meet major milestones/deadlines.
- Hyflux is not transparent with disclosures and information. Lack of information for creditors to judge; creditors work with stale financial statements in deciding whether or not to support the proposed restructuring).
- Hyflux is not really state-owned, no reputational risk/obligation for government to bail out.
- Hyflux's local assets are strategically very important to Singapore, but not Hyflux. Creditors must be clear about this.
(Save Singspring and Tuaspring and then sink the boat???)

 

[JustLikeThis]

Other highlights:
- Maybank retained rights to liquidate Tuaspring and recovery values for retail investors likely to be determined by selling price of Tuaspring. Value is constrained the financial value for Tuaspring given the need for bidder pre-qualification by PUB as the offtaker.
- Hyflux newly declared that they have issues with repatriation of monies from overseas.
- TuasOne is expected to provide positive cashflow upon completion.
- It is unclear that Off-takers will give some compensation to Hyflux (seize assets when Hyflux is insolvent, eg. PUB taking over Tuaspring, and similar situations in Middle East). It is also unclear that current court protection equates to insolvency which triggers assets seizures by offtakers.
- In the event of liquidation, SGD915mn senior unsecured obligations (perpetuals and preference) will be added and lower the recovery values for other classes
- Restructuring laws allow court to force-feed specific classes of investors when restructuring is supported by 75% of debt value AND 50% of affected people.
- At the end of the day, it could come down to a game of chicken as creditors work towards the best outcome possible.
- Indonesian's “full and final settlement” requirement means existing creditors will lose their rights to claim in the future if they agree to the restructuring proposal.

Source: https://www.ocbc.com/assets/pdf/Cre... Ltd Special Interest Commentary - 010219.pdf

 

[JustLikeThis]

Dear All,
You are allowed to declare your perpetual bond's unpaid interested
Basis is up to 25 March 2019 - based on the forms.

- Please include 483 days of interests in the forms for the period (28 November 2017 to 25 March 2019)
It is about 7.940%

- Note on Arrears of Distribution.
3% was declared and payable on 28 May 2018. Please include 301 days (28 May 2018 to 25 March 2019) of accrued 6% interests for the 3% declared
It is about 0.148%

Total: Add 8.088%

Reference from Prospectus Page 64
https://www.bondsupermart.com/main/...ramCategory=bondDocument&paramDocumentNo=1488

Each amount of Arrears of Distribution shall bear interest as if it constituted the principal of the Securities at the Distribution Rate and the amount of such interest (the “Additional Distribution Amount”) with respect to Arrears of Distribution shall be due and payable pursuant to this Condition 4 and shall be calculated by applying the applicable Distribution Rate to the amount of the Arrears of Distribution and otherwise mutatis mutandis as provided in the foregoing provisions of this Condition 4. The Additional Distribution Amount accrued up 64 to any Distribution Payment Date shall be added, for the purpose of calculating the Additional Distribution Amount accruing thereafter, to the amount of Arrears of Distribution remaining unpaid on such Distribution Payment Date so that it will itself become Arrears of Distribution.

Perpetual Bonds: Principal + interests
https://www.hyflux.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Form-of-Proof-of-Debt-to-be-completed-perps.pdf

Preference Shares: Principal
https://www.hyflux.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Form-of-Proof-of-Debt-to-be-completed-prefs.pdf

Email: [email protected]

 

[Focus]

Thank you for sharing the method of calculation.

 

[Focus]

What a CNY

 

[Focus]

Retarded

Thank you brother @zhihau. Thank you @Leongsam and our forum for helping. This is the only place in Singapore that gave us a prominent exposure to share our plight. We did our best to help while most only asked others to voice-out but not do it themselves. These victims got no balls, and belittled those who wanted to seek help from opposition lawyers, for the fear of offending PAP.

Yes, someone just sent me these. These people are hopeless. Crazy, they even mocked at our forum.
Shame on them for mocking us when our forum put in real efforts to help.

That is why i request our thread to be unpinned, such selfish people don't deserved to be helped.

 

[Empower]

Hi brothers,

Just watched a movie, “Kingsmen: The Golden Circle”. The President was arrested and impreached for not saving millions of people affected”.

A lot of thoughts. This has been a stressful period for Hyflux’s investors because regulators were not doing their jobs for years and refuse to intervene when disasters strike. To make things worse, government went now to lose tens of billions in foreign banks and companies that swiftly collapsed and yet low-balled Hyflux to take advantage of the situation. Now investors are held hostage and subject to repeated ridiculous humiliations by the wrong doers.......

Hope our country still have a few decent politicians who can see that our country is so flawed and impreach the leadership. Hope our people will come to their senses and make things right.

 

[winners]

Dear Hyflux uncles and aunties,
young guru laughing at you, teach you how to buy invest okay?

A very good narrative indeed. Unfortunately, these exact people who had invested and made their losses today are asking for the government to bail them out. Where in the world got such entitlement? And even if the government were to do so, it would be at the expense of tax payers' monies. Will it then be fair to those who have not invested in this company? Why would one wants to buy bonds? It's mainly because of greed as most bonds offer higher coupon rates than the interests from the banks, but they will always overlook the higher risks involved, vis-a-vis. You should know very well that you must invest at your own risk. I'm always of the opinion that one must invest only in monies that one can afford to lose. Because there is no mandated guarantee by any financial institutions in this world that your invested monies must be profitable for you.

Many years ago, I invested S$500k in a Templeton Unit Trust. Eventually, I lost almost S$150k upon redemption. I have no one to blame except myself. Can I blame the government? No, because they had never ask me to go into this investment. With the remaining S$350k from the redemption and plus some topping up, I then went into direct shares trading myself and managed to fully recover my loses and even made a respectable profit after 18 months. I had learned my lesson on never to believe in Unit Trusts again. Similarly, my father was totally devastated by the runaway GEMINI Chit Funds during the early 70s. He had lost almost half of his savings. He could only blame himself for this failure. Eventually, he managed to pull through the whole crises and moved on thereafter.

 

[RogerK]

Many years ago, I invested S$500k in a Templeton Unit Trust. Eventually, I lost almost S$150k upon redemption. I have no one to blame except myself. Can I blame the government? No, because they had never ask me to go into this investment....

Do not listen to this GAY pap IB dog.

I guess you are part of the pap IB.
I shall not waste my time with people like you. After all, you are paid to write pro pap message regardless if they hurt local Singaporeans or not. When you could not win an argument, you decided "case closed" and you went on side tracking the issue. ...

Wat the forumners say about u is true. U r a pap IB. Heng is just a puppet. And pinky will still be in charge. Everyone knows Heng will be a seat warmer. Even 3 yo kid also know.

This dog is here to sow discord. Take a look at his signature:
In the name of The PAP we will always trust. Only ungrateful and betraying Sinkies will detest The PAP. I will always be grateful to The PAP for continuously screwing the Sinkies 24/7 without having me to even lift a finger myself.

Finally, look at this shameful post

If you can come to JB to suck my cock and managed to make me cum. I may consider to apologize.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Do not listen to this GAY pap IB dog.

This pappie Faggot is beginning to make the resident pappie Eunuch look better. At least the eunuch's title post is funnier n he does trash sense sometimes



This dog is here to sow discord. Take a look at his signature:
In the name of The PAP we will always trust. Only ungrateful and betraying Sinkies will detest The PAP. I will always be grateful to The PAP for continuously screwing the Sinkies 24/7 without having me to even lift a finger myself.

Finally, look at this shameful post

This pappie Faggot is beginning to make the resident pappie Eunuch look better. At least the eunuch's title post is funnier n he does make sense sometimes

 

[hofmann]

A very good narrative indeed. Unfortunately, these exact people who had invested and made their losses today are asking for the government to bail them out. Where in the world got such entitlement? And even if the government were to do so, it would be at the expense of tax payers' monies. Will it then be fair to those who have not invested in this company? Why would one wants to buy bonds? It's mainly because of greed as most bonds offer higher coupon rates than the interests from the banks, but they will always overlook the higher risks involved, vis-a-vis. You should know very well that you must invest at your own risk. I'm always of the opinion that one must invest only in monies that one can afford to lose. Because there is no mandated guarantee by any financial institutions in this world that your invested monies must be profitable for you.

Many years ago, I invested S$500k in a Templeton Unit Trust. Eventually, I lost almost S$150k upon redemption. I have no one to blame except myself. Can I blame the government? No, because they had never ask me to go into this investment. With the remaining S$350k from the redemption and plus some topping up, I then went into direct shares trading myself and managed to fully recover my loses and even made a respectable profit after 18 months. I had learned my lesson on never to believe in Unit Trusts again. Similarly, my father was totally devastated by the runaway GEMINI Chit Funds during the early 70s. He had lost almost half of his savings. He could only blame himself for this failure. Eventually, he managed to pull through the whole crises and moved on thereafter.

You have no clue what you're talking about. You're throwing a red herring by harping on a bailout when the issue here is clearly the lack of regulation by the regulators who have betrayed the interests of investors.

No wonder the local fixed income market has dried up. Short term gain, long term pain. That's how short sighted our regulators are.

If they had simply mandated for bonds to be rated before being sold the retail investors, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Your blind Faith in those who sign your pay checks is appalling and is precisely why the country has sunk so low. PAP is not a religion, you won't go to hell for questioning the veracity of all they claim.

 

[winners]

You have no clue what you're talking about. You're throwing a red herring by harping on a bailout when the issue here is clearly the lack of regulation by the regulators who have betrayed the interests of investors.

No wonder the local fixed income market has dried up. Short term gain, long term pain. That's how short sighted our regulators are.

If they had simply mandated for bonds to be rated before being sold the retail investors, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Your blind Faith in those who sign your pay checks is appalling and is precisely why the country has sunk so low. PAP is not a religion, you won't go to hell for questioning the veracity of all they claim.

It all comes to greed. Those who invested in this particular instrument had also wanted more earnings. Prior to buying, why don't they read the prospectus as well as the financial status of this company to keep themselves better informed? It's all because most have taken for granted that Hyflux was indeed making good money in its initial years, so it should be a safe company. There are other safer equivalents but of course their coupon rates may not be as high. Why not SSB? Now things gone sour and want to kpkb. Now they expect the regulators to owe them a guarantee. Everything also blamed the government and wants the government to bail them out when in trouble. That is why I say that the government has been too involved in too many things, like they used to say: a nanny state.

The people should be left on their own and whether they eventually fail or succeed, government's intervention should not be accorded. In every investment schemes, there are bound to be risks and every potential investor must be fully aware of this by themselves. Even professionally managed investment houses and fund managers also do encounter such failures and who can they blame? There are also several cases like this in Malaysia and their people don't even have any recourse. So, who to blame? If it were to happen in Hong Kong, do you think the HKMA will intervene?

 

[winners]

This pappie Faggot is beginning to make the resident pappie Eunuch look better. At least the eunuch's title post is funnier n he does make sense sometimes

Get a backbone for yourself. Don't everything also has to depend on the government. Such a disgusting failure. You are what you are today is all because of your own doing.

 

[RogerK]

Get a backbone for yourself. Don't everything also has to depend on the government. Such a disgusting failure. You are what you are today is all because of your own doing.

Before you open your stinking mouth, why don't you go read this thread from the start and try understand how the bondholders have been stymied by the government and the regulators.

If you can come to JB to suck my cock and managed to make me cum. I may consider to apologize.

 

[rocket]

A very good narrative indeed. Unfortunately, these exact people who had invested and made their losses today are asking for the government to bail them out. Where in the world got such entitlement? And even if the government were to do so, it would be at the expense of tax payers' monies. Will it then be fair to those who have not invested in this company? Why would one wants to buy bonds? It's mainly because of greed as most bonds offer higher coupon rates than the interests from the banks, but they will always overlook the higher risks involved, vis-a-vis. You should know very well that you must invest at your own risk. I'm always of the opinion that one must invest only in monies that one can afford to lose. Because there is no mandated guarantee by any financial institutions in this world that your invested monies must be profitable for you.

Many years ago, I invested S$500k in a Templeton Unit Trust. Eventually, I lost almost S$150k upon redemption. I have no one to blame except myself. Can I blame the government? No, because they had never ask me to go into this investment. With the remaining S$350k from the redemption and plus some topping up, I then went into direct shares trading myself and managed to fully recover my loses and even made a respectable profit after 18 months. I had learned my lesson on never to believe in Unit Trusts again. Similarly, my father was totally devastated by the runaway GEMINI Chit Funds during the early 70s. He had lost almost half of his savings. He could only blame himself for this failure. Eventually, he managed to pull through the whole crises and moved on thereafter.

Stop your bragging.we all know u bought a lose money shithole in JB.
We all here look down on you.

 

[rocket]

Get a backbone for yourself. Don't everything also has to depend on the government. Such a disgusting failure. You are what you are today is all because of your own doing.

You today is the wrong doing of your parents.

 

[RogerK]

Stop your bragging.we all know u bought a lose money shithole in JB.
We all here look down on you.

Exactly. Everybody should ignore this gay pap IB. He has been going around distracting from the main issue.

@winners anyway dont detract from what many of us have been asking. Why would a highly successful rich person migrate to JB instead of somewhere much better like an actual first world country?

Why?

You have no clue what you're talking about. You're throwing a red herring by harping on a bailout when the issue here is clearly the lack of regulation by the regulators who have betrayed the interests of investors. ...

Sorry threadstarter and all affected bondholders, my apologies for disturbing your thread. Just want to warn you folks about this pap IB

If you can come to JB to suck my cock and managed to make me cum. I may consider to apologize.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Get a backbone for yourself. Don't everything also has to depend on the government. Such a disgusting failure. You are what you are today is all because of your own doing.

I do not see how this comment is relevant to me. Are u talking to someone else? Or are u senile n delusional?

 

[rocket]

I do not see how this comment is relevant to me. Are u talking to someone else? Or are u senile n delusional?

This whiner mad dog is barking.

 

[winners]

I do not see how this comment is relevant to me. Are u talking to someone else? Or are u senile n delusional?

Sorry, it was my mistake as it was meant for Ralders in another thread.