Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party. Time to stop the Reform?

[Sideswipe]

A Parliamentary cabinet system is not about individual MPs. It's party based politics and strength in numbers.

The Oppositions can have the best ex SAF-scholar or former civil servant in parliament but they won't be able to do anything in parliament expect meaningless war of words with PAP MPs that change nothing.

 

[IR123]

A Parliamentary cabinet system is not about individual MPs. It's party based politics and strength in numbers.

The Oppositions can have the best ex SAF-scholar or former civil servant in parliament but they won't be able to do anything in parliament expect meaningless war of words with PAP MPs that change nothing.

In the first place can they get into Parliament?

That is where it all starts.

So let's hear the traditional arguments why they cannot get into Parliament:

(1) people are afraid to vote according to their desires
(2) people are afraid their vote is not secret
(3) people want upgrading
(4) people are sinkees, ballless, etc, etc
(5) people are .......

But the real question is very basic: "Why people are not voting for you?"

The real answers are also very basic: Because

(1) people are afraid to vote according to their desires
(2) people are afraid their vote is not secret
(3) people want upgrading
(4) people are sinkees, ballless, etc, etc
(5) people are .......

The cycle repeats.

The result: Continue to lose elections; Broken record continue to grind.

Thus if the current method is ineffective, why continue it?


Try newer methods. You cannot ask the old to try new things. That is beyond most of them.

But you can ask the young to try new things.

Therefore i ask the young - be independents, go for the single wards and win them all.

That will show the old why they failed and are failing.

That will be the catalyst for newer things to come.


Never mind about voices in Parliament.

First, you must win.

Then others will want to come in and win.

 

[yourdaddy]

I find it funny how there r some agents here who'll do everything in their power to refute the facts and feelings felt by people that TT is a no big deal, a failure, lightweight or other variations.

Logically speaking I and many those who voice that have more right and more substance to substantiate what we said about TT because TT is wide open, as a single specimen for us to see and opine. Whereas these defensive people with suspicious vested interest attempted a muzzle by speaking in general terms, talking all over the place to attack systems to uphold the one TT and can't come up with squat proof or substance except "stink to high heavens" and "come to the grist". Which is really funny.

A 100% direct analogy is that of the irrational angry father whose kid failed with nowhere to go, who discredits and says that its not his son's fault but is the whole system's fault and everyone else who got the place in local IHL who would be like 99.999% of over 13,000 people every year are the ones at fault, or are undeserving, or unmerited and NOT the kid a failure :oIo:

Beside the delusions, the attempt to curtail freedom of opinion with substance on one person in question is a joke.

 

[yourdaddy]

A Parliamentary cabinet system is not about individual MPs. It's party based politics and strength in numbers.

The Oppositions can have the best ex SAF-scholar or former civil servant in parliament but they won't be able to do anything in parliament expect meaningless war of words with PAP MPs that change nothing.

Your observation has merit. This can be proven by how the NMP who will exchange the war of words with PAP MPs, yada yada and the NMP scheme has not brought the people any progress or benefit at all. I don't recall a single suggestion from an NMP that was implemented, any big change that an NMP brought about. But this could be due to the fact that the NMPs have been subpar.

The whole yakking without the power of having the incumbent seats exercise, is well fleshed by the NMP's wayang. The NMP also get the very hefty MP allowance which amount to something like $13k or was $15k a month.

One of the new NMP Calvin Cheng recently sworn in was even discovered by Balji to be a YPAP member, probably didn't go far there in his attempt to get noticed by the MIW then try NMP route.

 

[yourdaddy]

Hahaha...what you said abt TT doesnt make a dent in me.

I was simply aghast at why you were so up in arms over this guy and had to summon up the story of the whole SAFOS scheme to malign the guy.

On the contrary, you seem to have a stake in this and sounded like a crazy PAP defender. Praising to high heavens what the PAP does and has, and poof-pooh and scorn what the Opp does and has.

Another 50 years of PAP stink, and Singapore indeed will be sinkieland with thousands of you running around.

HAHAHHA I say that TT is a FAILURE IN MY EYES for a big bagful of reasons including the fact that I know lots of non-partisan people once courted for politics who put him to eternal damnation of shame and I'm a PAP supporter? HAHAHAHA as you wish.

Oh you may like to find out the difference between allegiance or support for a political party and being fortunate enough in the right circle to know who's shit and who's not. The difference between partisan politics and non partisan. Now I know why my relatives tell me in horror that Singapore undergrads here in universities here don't know the difference or heard of the word partisan.

By your theory, everyone in any form of opposition or who opposes the PAP like Gopalan Nair, EK Yap, Chee Soon Juan and his laokuaybu sister are all damn intellectual and super smart, all super high flier and very eminent making big bucks because they hate the PAP. And EVERYONE who is non partisan but not kowtowing to everything to do with the Opposition is a PAP supporter, people like Tommy Koh, Chan Heng Chee, Peter Ho, Phillip Yeo to Desmond Kuek are all supporters of PAP.

HAHAHA this is the reason I'm not hopeful that my wish that there are enough smart people in SG who will come together to overthrow PAP will come true in the next 5 decades..and its so obvious that you're an RP member. Pls tell your leader KJ to recruit better people as he is the only one in the party qualified and impressive currently, so you don't have to troll on the internet.

Basic degree leaving the army as a major we can cut him some slack. 1st class honours leaving after 8 years as a major whether SAFOS or SMS or even SAS/LSA can only spell one thing - L O S E R.

 

[elephanto]

Your observation has merit. This can be proven by how the NMP who will exchange the war of words with PAP MPs, yada yada and the NMP scheme has not brought the people any progress or benefit at all. I don't recall a single suggestion from an NMP that was implemented, any big change that an NMP brought about. But this could be due to the fact that the NMPs have been subpar.

The whole yakking without the power of having the incumbent seats exercise, is well fleshed by the NMP's wayang. The NMP also get the very hefty MP allowance which amount to something like $13k or was $15k a month.

One of the new NMP Calvin Cheng recently sworn in was even discovered by Balji to be a YPAP member, probably didn't go far there in his attempt to get noticed by the MIW then try NMP route.

NMP Calvin Cheng is a joke I agree.

But by your logic, then even pioneer NMP Walter Woon's private member bill leading to the Maintenance of Parents Act also one big wayang (at least one instance, law implemented right ?)

But in a sense even Walter Woon's singular achievement can be said to be 'wayang' too.

However yaking yaking bring no benefit or progress ? I think a little too sweeping.

In the extreme, unless one has more than 51% of the House, everything is futile, right ? Debate to hell, roll call, vote taken, assuming 100% party discipline, whoever has even 1 seat more than half the House will always prevail.

My point is, in all the years of NMP scheme, while NMPs can never replace bona fide elected MP, the added debate is more than just noise, however futile the end result may be.

Siew Kum Hong, Thio Li-Ann, Claire Chiang's contribution all don't count ? Cannot be.

I simply want to ask, isn't it even worse if these people were never in the House at all.

Bro Sideswipe & IR123 both have the own point.

But I feel, change is a continuum,a process or sudden, revolutionary sweep.

1 opp member then 2, then 4, then drop to 2 ..... no major progress since 1991.

In addition to all of IR123 bro's reasons : Sinkie balless, oppo candidate quality etc etc,
I agree PAP using NMP, GRC, upgrading carrots & other legal but questionable practices from legal suits to press control ALL contribute to the sterile political representation in Parliament today.

The Young must blaze a new trail.

Older ones must reach inside & question our unique psyche, why despite us kpkb PAP still majority of us vote PAP in? Why fear voting opposition ?

Short of revolution, then like-minded dedicated citizens must all play their various roles & remember every small inch gained counts.

But the journey will be an arduous one, every small breakthrough or space won must not be denigraded.

As for Mr Tony Tan, I respect the FACT that he has 1st class honors from Cambridge, hold his own in business & have the courage of conviction to join an opposition party with a view to standing for elections.

One do not think any fair-minded citizen can begrudge him at least that.

SMS is very common - i agree, left SAF in 30s still as a major confirms he is NO SAF high flyer, also true. These 2 points, by & large cannot be disputed.

But just because the above are true , IMO it should not necessarily equate to him being a 'nobody', ;failure', 'loser' - if not then such a negative valuation is largely subjective, up to each individual's right of prejudice/judgement.

Fair enough, we should not put words into each others' mouth or impute more.

In a sense, we are all keyboard warriors - let's move on

 

[kingrant]

Despite yr superiority complex, you are still stuck in a groove and can't see the woods for the trees. I am weary of arguing with pigheads like you. I am no RP member and also not member of any party, get it?

The issue is not whether you are or I am right about TT. The issue here is why are you so agitated and vehement against the fact that others think TT is deserving of our vote.

If you think you are so clever, show yrself and stand for election. I think you are a lousy case of sour grapes - maybe passed over for scholarships, miffed over some grouse and carrying a chip on yr shoulder. Whatever it is, don't bang yr head here for sympathies.

The person to fear most is a person like you. Bigoted and closeminded. Not allowing others the freedom to disagree. Always wanting to impose yr will and opinions on others.




.

HAHAHHA I say that TT is a FAILURE IN MY EYES for a big bagful of reasons including the fact that I know lots of non-partisan people once courted for politics who put him to eternal damnation of shame and I'm a PAP supporter? HAHAHAHA as you wish.

Oh you may like to find out the difference between allegiance or support for a political party and being fortunate enough in the right circle to know who's shit and who's not. The difference between partisan politics and non partisan. Now I know why my relatives tell me in horror that Singapore undergrads here in universities here don't know the difference or heard of the word partisan.

By your theory, everyone in any form of opposition or who opposes the PAP like Gopalan Nair, EK Yap, Chee Soon Juan and his laokuaybu sister are all damn intellectual and super smart, all super high flier and very eminent making big bucks because they hate the PAP. And EVERYONE who is non partisan but not kowtowing to everything to do with the Opposition is a PAP supporter, people like Tommy Koh, Chan Heng Chee, Peter Ho, Phillip Yeo to Desmond Kuek are all supporters of PAP.

HAHAHA this is the reason I'm not hopeful that my wish that there are enough smart people in SG who will come together to overthrow PAP will come true in the next 5 decades..and its so obvious that you're an RP member. Pls tell your leader KJ to recruit better people as he is the only one in the party qualified and impressive currently, so you don't have to troll on the internet.

 

[kingrant]

See how bigoted and conceited you are?

Logically speaking I and many those who voice that have more right and more substance to substantiate what we said about TT ....

....
A 100% direct analogy is that of the irrational angry father whose kid failed with nowhere to go, who discredits and says that its not his son's fault but is the whole system's fault and everyone else who got the place in local IHL who would be like 99.999% of over 13,000 people every year are the ones at fault, or are undeserving, or unmerited and NOT the kid a failure :oIo:

Beside the delusions, the attempt to curtail freedom of opinion with substance on one person in question is a joke.

And how that can be analogous to what we are discussing is a joke.

 

[kingrant]

Have you ever listened to yrself?

You sound exactly like that Wee Shu Min character whom society has damned. Get out of my uncaring elitist face.

PS. Btw what makes you think I'm yr Singapore undergrad? Hahahaha..nothing close..and as the Chinese saying goes, pls respect yr elders, for I have eaten more salt than you have rice.

A 100% direct analogy is that of the irrational angry father whose kid failed with nowhere to go, who discredits and says that its not his son's fault but is the whole system's fault and everyone else who got the place in local IHL who would be like 99.999% of over 13,000 people every year are the ones at fault, or are undeserving, or unmerited and NOT the kid a failure :oIo:

Beside the delusions, the attempt to curtail freedom of opinion with substance on one person in question is a joke.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I don't really understand why everyone is discussing about Tony Tan just because of his paper qualifications?

I mean, does it really matter if he is a scholar and left the SAF with the rank of major? I mean, have you met Tony Tan before?

Beside qualifications, I think what makes a person a good politician must from from the heart.

At this stage of democratic development, we are not going to expect an opposition candidate to become a minister overnight. Besides, what makes a good businessman or soldier, may not make a good politician or even a minister. The fact that people are judging opposition candidates like this because PAP has "set the benchmark" in everybody's mind.

But look at it this way, if PAP's benchmark is so "SUPER GOOD", many of us won't be complaining about some of the policies and ministers right in the open here! Thus, I guess PAP's benchmark should be put into scrutiny!

Put it simply, what we are looking for is JUST A DECENT HUMAN BEING who could well REPRESENT VOTERS' VOICE in parliament! We are not expecting him or her to run any business entity! Definitely not an army! Not even the Town Council because if we really expect an MP to run the Town Council, then we should be worry! Even PAP's MPs don't really run the Town Council themselves, so why should we be expecting opposition candidates to do that? Running an estate will need professional estate managers!

To me, an added value in a candidate is his or her passion and the ability to analyze policies and reflect voters' sentiments, views, defend voters' welfare.... etc. Definitely not just that paper qualifications or rank in the army.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[theDoors]

For all you know, he might feel that the system that grooms him is distasteful at the very top and decide to quit it gets the better of him.

 

[scroobal]

Certainly not part of the game but someone in the admin process associated with the scheme who is just venting his frustrations. A caddy than the golfer.I am sure you can tell

What is your view then ?
Locke

 

[scroobal]

I wouldn't worry at all. The lines of reasoning are poor or non existent ie. not SAFOS and not as young as Gerald Giam. I wouldn't last one day in desker road selling koyok with lines like that.

I don't really understand why everyone is discussing about Tony Tan just because of his paper qualifications?

 

[IR123]

it is possible that whoever it is certainly had plenty of fun doing a tit-for-tat in an opposition's haven a la alex tan in the ypap.

still it is entertaining


as for that couple, they represent an improvement for the opposition

what is important is to sustain the higher expectations in the people's minds of the oppositions (RP) and hopefully people will see them as individuals worth their votes, time and admiration

i doubt that people are concerned they are not president's scholars; they just want reasonably good choices and two suddenly emerge; first-class honours in Cambridge (University i presume, and not Polytechnic, UK and not USA) are beyond the reach of many

 

[kingrant]

I agree wholeheartedly.

as for that couple, they represent an improvement for the opposition

what is important is to sustain the higher expectations in the people's minds of the oppositions (RP) and hopefully people will see them as individuals worth their votes, time and admiration

i doubt that people are concerned they are not president's scholars; they just want reasonably good choices and two suddenly emerge; first-class honours in Cambridge (University i presume, and not Polytechnic, UK and not USA) are beyond the reach of many

The caddy's more vitriol than sense. He gets carried away by his own hot air.

I wouldn't worry at all. The lines of reasoning are poor or non existent ie. not SAFOS and not as young as Gerald Giam. I wouldn't last one day in desker road selling koyok with lines like that.

A hot air balloon, that's what he is.

Certainly not part of the game but someone in the admin process associated with the scheme who is just venting his frustrations. A caddy than the golfer.I am sure you can tell

Spot on.

I don't really understand why everyone is discussing about Tony Tan just because of his paper qualifications?

I mean, does it really matter if he is a scholar and left the SAF with the rank of major? I mean, have you met Tony Tan before?

Beside qualifications, I think what makes a person a good politician must from from the heart.

At this stage of democratic development, we are not going to expect an opposition candidate to become a minister overnight. Besides, what makes a good businessman or soldier, may not make a good politician or even a minister. The fact that people are judging opposition candidates like this because PAP has "set the benchmark" in everybody's mind.

But look at it this way, if PAP's benchmark is so "SUPER GOOD", many of us won't be complaining about some of the policies and ministers right in the open here! Thus, I guess PAP's benchmark should be put into scrutiny!

Put it simply, what we are looking for is JUST A DECENT HUMAN BEING who could well REPRESENT VOTERS' VOICE in parliament! We are not expecting him or her to run any business entity! Definitely not an army! Not even the Town Council because if we really expect an MP to run the Town Council, then we should be worry! Even PAP's MPs don't really run the Town Council themselves, so why should we be expecting opposition candidates to do that? Running an estate will need professional estate managers!

To me, an added value in a candidate is his or her passion and the ability to analyze policies and reflect voters' sentiments, views, defend voters' welfare.... etc. Definitely not just that paper qualifications or rank in the army.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[IR123]

Kingrant, he was just playing with all of you

My guess is that this is an experimentation on how to overwhelm the opposition supporters and if true, all of you fall into it

 

[kingrant]

I'm all for a good play. Jokers like that caddyboy come a dime a dozen. Having lived and enjoyed life this long, I can just about entertain anything from anyone, esp young pricks and pipsqueaks.

Kingrant, he was just playing with all of you

My guess is that this is an experimentation on how to overwhelm the opposition supporters and if true, all of you fall into it

 

[scroobal]

You can tell when someone is yanking your chain. This one is tanked with emotions - post after post. He has a story to tell but no suitable stage or context to begin with. I can tell that he is familiar with the various scheme but he does not know the personalities involved including Tony Tan.

I know a chap who works at Tanglin Club as an F&B supervisor executive. He drives a Beemer bought on ballon scheme and stays in a condo. His wife has to take money regularly from her sister to pay for all these. If you meet him, you will immediately notice his clothes and his mannerism. He can conduct a conversation on property development and anything associated with elites as he serves them on a regular basis. If you are not a member of TC, you will never know. People who serve the upper crust of society have a good command of the language but have no clue the basis of why things occur. This guy stays close to Bedok Corner but you won't him catch there. He too has issues with "farmers".

Kingrant, he was just playing with all of you

My guess is that this is an experimentation on how to overwhelm the opposition supporters and if true, all of you fall into it

 

[IR123]

well it is natural that different people will read things differently

i think he is not concerned about coherency, only how far he can push and the types of methods that can be employed to win

if he is after coherency, i believe he can give good perspectives too

as to judging him a caddy or golfer, it is the same tenor as judging a person based on SAFOS or SMS

the main point is that he succeeded where the rest of the other IB nicks failed

 

[Zombie]

I don't really understand why everyone is discussing about Tony Tan just because of his paper qualifications?

oppopig: we are about to match the elitist status ......
pappy: no you are still far away .........